Bible Study Satan Incites David.

[Chopper]

In my study of 1 Chronicles 21:1, I saw where David numbered Israel because Satan "incited" him to do it. God was not pleased with David as well as David's chief warrior Joab.

I'd like to discuss, how could David who on many occasions "sought the Lord" for His direction, but now, acts quickly before consulting God? Also, what can we learn from this incident.

Perhaps Satan is all to busy making us make foolish decisions which are out of the will of our Lord. Is it time for us to be very diligent to seek the will of God in many of our decisions?

 

[reba]

David although was a man after God's own heart was a man... we all (women too) mess up..

 

[th1b.taylor]

Paul, in Phil. 4:13, teaches us that through God all things are possible. Now, Paul was in prison when he penned these words. Paul, when Jail with Silas, had indeed been released by an angel but he was kept in the Roman prison this time. Paul, because of his struggle to remain "in Christ" knew his mission. It looks to me as if King David, like all of us that ever gain any degree of command became, some what, full of himself.

Here, I believe we find a fantastic Life Lesson on remaining humble and in Christ that we never forget who we are and are not. So many in the Service, Pew Whales, on Sunday are like unto a young man I tried to council about obvious pride aout eing seated in the Choir on Sunday Morning. He took offense because he was so sexy the young and foolish lasses wsanted him, and not beside them in Church, and he and his wife took their personal sins to another Church to mess it up because I and the Deacons tried to help them grow in God.

The question I ask myself, to often in retrospect is why would we not, always, go to God first. This can be such a growth point if we can ever grasp it.

 

[Malachi]

I'd like to discuss, how could David who on many occasions "sought the Lord" for His direction, but now, acts quickly before consulting God? Also, what can we learn from this incident.

David's decision to number Israel was a tragic decision which could have been avoided. When we read Psalm 119, we can fairly conclude that David was very familiar with the Torah (the five books of Moses), and possibly some of the other books of the Tanach (OT). He would have been fully aware that when God gave victories to His people, they were not based upon the numbers of warriors, but purely on God's intervention.

Furthermore the kings of Israel were (a) required to know the Law and (b) forbidden to exalt themselves above their brethren (Deut 17:18-20): And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites: And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

Evidently David forgot all of this, so Satan incited David to violate these commandments, and David paid a heavy price. The lesson is clear. We are constantly under Satanic attack, therefore we must be constantly on guard against Satan's evil devices. We also have Scripture to teach us what to do and what not to do, so we should be applying God's Truth to every situation.

 

[Deborah13]

Evidently David forgot all of this, so Satan incited David to violate these commandments, and David paid a heavy price. The lesson is clear. We are constantly under Satanic attack, therefore we must be constantly on guard against Satan's evil devices. We also have Scripture to teach us what to do and what not to do, so we should be applying God's Truth to every situation.

How do you reconcil this view of satan's attack with the same event in ......
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

 

[Chopper]

David's decision to number Israel was a tragic decision which could have been avoided. When we read Psalm 119, we can fairly conclude that David was very familiar with the Torah (the five books of Moses), and possibly some of the other books of the Tanach (OT). He would have been fully aware that when God gave victories to His people, they were not based upon the numbers of warriors, but purely on God's intervention.

Furthermore the kings of Israel were (a) required to know the Law and (b) forbidden to exalt themselves above their brethren (Deut 17:18-20): And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites: And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

Evidently David forgot all of this, so Satan incited David to violate these commandments, and David paid a heavy price. The lesson is clear. We are constantly under Satanic attack, therefore we must be constantly on guard against Satan's evil devices. We also have Scripture to teach us what to do and what not to do, so we should be applying God's Truth to every situation.

Thank you Malachi for your Scriptural response. When I pondered this verse in my study of the Old Covenant, quite frankly I was frightened a little when I think of how busy my life is and how easy it would be for Satan to slip in a deception into my mind and that I would respond to it without a counsel from the Lord.

Do you think there could be something that I and others can implement in our busy days to be aware of the deceptions of the evil one? We are in the last days for sure. If I'm correct, deception from our enemy will increase. The Scripture speaks about staying "awake" and alert. How do you think that being awake is different than how we operate now?

It just bothers me that it seems that if the mighty David could be enticed to sin against God, do I have a chance?

 

[reba]

Chopper You have the price of your sins paid in the Blood of THEE Lamb of God....

 

[Malachi]

How do you reconcil this view of satan's attack with the same event in ......
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

This is very similar to the disasters which came upon Job, as to who was ultimately behind it. God gave Satan permission to move against Job, and thus he also gave permission to Satan to move against David and Israel. God also gives Satan permission to move against us, but in Peter's case that permission was not granted (otherwise Peter's faith would have failed, if you will recall).

In 1 Chron 21 we have the direct instigator of David's sin -- Satan. In 2 Sam 24 we receive a glimpse of God's foreknowledge of the outcome, and so it speaks about the anger of the Lord against Israel. God, knowing that David would not do the right thing, knew beforehand that He would also bring destruction upon some in Israel (2 Sam 24:15).

But why was His anger kindled against Israel? It may be because Israel sided with the rebel Absalom against David (2 Sam 17:24,26): Then David came to Mahanaim. And Absalom passed over Jordan, he and all the men of Israel with him... So Israel and Absalom pitched in the land of Gilead. It would therefore appear that God used David's pride to deal with Israel (two birds with one stone).

 

[Malachi]

Chopper You have the price of your sins paid in the Blood of THEE Lamb of God....

Chopper is not referring to the price that was paid, but the possiblity of being deceived unawares by Satan. If David could be deceived, how much more we. That is something we all have to deal with, since Paul tells us "If any man thinks he stands, let him take heed lest he fall".

 

[Deborah13]

This is very similar to the disasters which came upon Job, as to who was ultimately behind it. God gave Satan permission to move against Job, and thus he also gave permission to Satan to move against David and Israel

In Job's case I can see where satan asked for permission, or actually challenged God about His view of Job. So God does give permission. But in this instance it appears God sent satan, rather like Paul in 2 Corinths. was sent a messenger from satan.

I'm not well versed in these books at all, so I have what may seem like silly questions, sorry. Please be patient.
Do you have any thoughts about what possible motive David had for counting the warriors in his army? The pestilence only killed men in the army.

 

[Malachi]

Do you have any thoughts about what possible motive David had for counting the warriors in his army? The pestilence only killed men in the army.

When you think about it, the situations of Job and David were very similar. Satan attacked Job through various losses, but he attacked David through his own pride. Both were under God's allowance. Satan uses various devices. If he can't be a roaring lion to suit his purposes, then he will become an angel of light. If he should not be an angel of light, then he will be a slippery serpent. Or a fearsome dragon. Or a kindly adviser (as in the temptations of Christ). Or even a beautiful seductress like Jezebel.

Which brings us to David's motivation. Joab was David's general, and would have known David quite well. When David made the decision to number the people (actually to assess his military might) it was Joab who asked "Why doth my lord the king DELIGHT in this thing?"

In other words, why are to trying to take pleasure in the vast army that you have, and the vast multitude that is under your authority? It was a matter of pride of position. It is just like the miser who delights to see his vast horde of wealth (pride of possessions) even while he lives like a pauper. Joab also told David that this would be a sin ("trespass"). David went ahead anyhow and paid for it.

 

[Deborah13]

David made the decision to number the people (actually to assess his military might) it was Joab who asked "Why doth my lord the king DELIGHT in this thing?"

In other words, why are to trying to take pleasure in the vast army that you have, and the vast multitude that is under your authority? It was a matter of pride of position.

Thank you, Malachi. I read that several times and didn't get what Joab was saying. To me the men in the armies being the only ones who died was a hint to me but.....

 

[Chopper]

Chopper You have the price of your sins paid in the Blood of THEE Lamb of God....

You are so right Reba, you get Choppers HOME RUN award for that statement. It wasn't so under the Old Covenant. In this study, if you read further to V.14 it says that 70,000 men of Israel fell. David's sin cost him greatly as well as his people. I'm so glad for Grace!!

 

[th1b.taylor]

When you think about it, the situations of Job and David were very similar. Satan attacked Job through various losses, but he attacked David through his own pride. Both were under God's allowance. Satan uses various devices. If he can't be a roaring lion to suit his purposes, then he will become an angel of light. If he should not be an angel of light, then he will be a slippery serpent. Or a fearsome dragon. Or a kindly adviser (as in the temptations of Christ). Or even a beautiful seductress like Jezebel.

Which brings us to David's motivation. Joab was David's general, and would have known David quite well. When David made the decision to number the people (actually to assess his military might) it was Joab who asked "Why doth my lord the king DELIGHT in this thing?"

In other words, why are to trying to take pleasure in the vast army that you have, and the vast multitude that is under your authority? It was a matter of pride of position. It is just like the miser who delights to see his vast horde of wealth (pride of possessions) even while he lives like a pauper. Joab also told David that this would be a sin ("trespass"). David went ahead anyhow and paid for it.

Agreed! I find that the least considered attribute of God is the truth that nothing, nothing, can ever happen that is outside of God's fore- knowledge. As nearly as I can discern, people are, generally, guilty of the sin I am just repenting of... again. For the past two years or so I have not read any daily, progressive, reading of the scriptures. I mean, I have read the Bible threough, how many times?

Like King David, I believe, also, my pride kicked in. And after all, three times a day I prayed before my meals and often, as soon as I became aware of anouther's need. It is so very easy for Satan when God see's us turn the field in the wrong way. Just as my farmer family taught me to turn, fertilize and to row the soil every year, so must the servant of God. And as Malichi is point out here, when any of us do not make God number one in our lives we are due to be tested for our own good.

 

[Deborah13]

You are so right Reba, you get Choppers HOME RUN award for that statement. It wasn't so under the Old Covenant. In this study, if you read further to V.14 it says that 70,000 men of Israel fell. David's sin cost him greatly as well as his people. I'm so glad for Grace!!

Is it because we have grace today and David didn't?
Would people like you and me have known about these things with David, if we had been alive then? If not, how do we know God doesn't do the same things today?
I don't know, people quote the old testament about healing the nation, USA; doesn't that mean they believe that God still operates the same way He did in OT times? That God judges nations by their laws and behaviors of the people in the nation, both the saved and the unsaved?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Is it because we have grace today and David didn't?
Would people like you and me have known about these things with David, if we had been alive then? If not, how do we know God doesn't do the same things today?
I don't know, people quote the old testament about healing the nation, USA; doesn't that mean they believe that God still operates the same way He did in OT times? That God judges nations by their laws and behaviors of the people in the nation, both the saved and the unsaved?

Good morning Debora,
I'm not sure where you stand and you may have just siad it without fore-thought but King David was and is saved the same way any of us is saved, by the unmerited grace of Goid/Jesus. The Ten Commanndments never saved anyone and even Father Abraham was held in Paradise until Jesus died on the cross and released the entire lot of them to go to Heaven and then, only, after they had appeared in the streets of the Holy City of Jerusalem. (Matthew 27:50-53)

I was taught, early on, and do teach that Jesus went into Paradise to preach the Gospel of the Salvation by Grace to them before they could follow Him into the presence of God.

It is my opinion, from my studies on the Evolution of the languages, that when the older statements of faith place Jesus in Hell they are speaking of the Grave, perhaps from a closer understanding of the ancient words than we, generally, hold today. Of course we know from the knowledge of the scriptures that when we, humans, are placed in the grave, ¿Hell?, our souls, the Spiritual Being inside our bodies that is ourselves, goes, immediately, to be with Jesus in Heaven. (Rev. 6:9-11)

Now your very astute question about God operating the same as He did in the time before Jesus. The answer is found in Mal. 3:6a, God is the same today as He was yesterday and He is the swame today as He will be tomorrow. We still teach our Children andour Youth the Ten Commandments because God has not changed. The study of this, particularl, doctrinal truth is a very slippery slope if studied without the hand of a teacher on one's sholder.

When I took the Grumpy Old Men's Class, I was teaching how to live a Holy Life, separated to God alone, and when I arrived at this point in the study is when my class fell from fourteen to three and one of the three a new member after the click had followed the one man to another, local, church to get their ears tickled. This idea that God never changes can slide into so many different niches that very few will, even, teach it. I've witnessed more than one Pastor of a Church refuse to teach this, the book of Revelation and Dan. 10 thru the end because they are so difficult to grasp.

Praying this helps a little for your understanding.

 

[Deborah13]

I'm not sure where you stand and you may have just siad it without fore-thought but King David was and is saved the same way any of us is saved, by the unmerited grace of Goid/Jesus.

I agree. But I don't think it wasn't a salvation issue being discussed. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

God is the same today as He was yesterday and He is the swame today as He will be tomorrow. We still teach our Children and our Youth the Ten Commandments because God has not changed.

Do you teach them to keep the Sabbath? If not then you are only teaching some of the 10 and only the principles seen in some of them. They are the tool of the tutor.

This idea that God never changes can slide into so many different niches that very few will, even, teach it.

I believe God's Nature never changes, the same yesterday, today, and forever. If we don't believe that, how could we trust a fickle, changeable God?
But there are hundreds of examples in the Bible of how God changes His means of getting things done and how He changes methods in dealing with individual people. For instance, God no longer sends prophets with messages to His nation, as a whole. Does/did God strike dead every person who has lied to the Holy Spirit?

 

[Malachi]

Do you teach them to keep the Sabbath? If not then you are only teaching some of the 10 and only the principles seen in some of them.

While this is off topic, it still needs to be addressed here. The sabbath principle has been transferred to the Lord's Day by the Lord Himself. John would not have mentioned "the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10) unless there was a spiritual significance to it, and being "in the Spirit" makes it doubly so. So when Christians teach Christians to observe the Lord's Day for worship and for rest, it is precisely what was required on the weekly sabbath. Except it is superior to the sabbath because it celebrates the resurrection every week, and also tells believers that they have already entered into God's eternal sabbath rest through the finished work of Christ.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I agree. But I don't think it wasn't a salvation issue being discussed. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Do you teach them to keep the Sabbath? If not then you are only teaching some of the 10 and only the principles seen in some of them. They are the tool of the tutor.

Malachi has already filled in the details so I'll just say yes.

I believe God's Nature never changes, the same yesterday, today, and forever. If we don't believe that, how could we trust a fickle, changeable God?
But there are hundreds of examples in the Bible of how God changes His means of getting things done and how He changes methods in dealing with individual people. For instance, God no longer sends prophets with messages to His nation, as a whole. Does/did God strike dead every person who has lied to the Holy Spirit?

I'll need at least two examples to work with as I have never seen this in scripture.

 

[Deborah13]

Malachi has already filled in the details so I'll just say yes.


I'll need at least two examples to work with as I have never seen this in scripture.

Sorry Bill, not sure exactly which things in my statement you are asking for scripture to verify them.