Saved from what?

[stovebolts]

Why do we seem to separate salvation as some sort of far off destination?

I hear so much about "being saved" in the church like it's a one time event that essentially only has to do with the hope associated with when we die.

While being "saved" does have eternal rewards, what happened to a fuller, more robust view of being saved.

David put it like this:

Psalms 3:7-8 Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for you have smitten all my enemies upon the cheek bone; you have broken the teeth of the ungodly. Salvation belongs unto the LORD: your blessing is upon your people. Selah.

Or how about this one?
Psalms 6:4-7 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for your mercies' sake. For in death there is no remembrance of you: in the grave who shall give you thanks? I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed wet with tears; I water my couch with my tears. My eye is consumed because of grief; it grows old because of all my enemies.

Psalms 59:2 Deliver me from the workers of iniquity, and save me from bloody men.

The list goes on and on... So why do we, as Christians view salvation with such a narrow lense?

This brings up my second thought. Why is it that we can say Christian things, like the way we live etc. You know, "don't lie, be honest". don't steal, it's not right etc. You get the idea. We can teach sound biblical principals, but more so than often I see them viewed as our "Secular" lives from within the church which of course is viewed separately from our "Spiritual" lives, which of course is always associated with our "Salvation", or better put, "being saved".

Thoughts?

 

[John 8:32]

Why do we seem to separate salvation as some sort of far off destination?

I hear so much about "being saved" in the church like it's a one time event that essentially only has to do with the hope associated with when we die.

While being "saved" does have eternal rewards, what happened to a fuller, more robust view of being saved.

David put it like this:

Psalms 3:7-8 Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for you have smitten all my enemies upon the cheek bone; you have broken the teeth of the ungodly. Salvation belongs unto the LORD: your blessing is upon your people. Selah.

Or how about this one?
Psalms 6:4-7 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for your mercies' sake. For in death there is no remembrance of you: in the grave who shall give you thanks? I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed wet with tears; I water my couch with my tears. My eye is consumed because of grief; it grows old because of all my enemies.

Psalms 59:2 Deliver me from the workers of iniquity, and save me from bloody men.

The list goes on and on... So why do we, as Christians view salvation with such a narrow lense?

This brings up my second thought. Why is it that we can say Christian things, like the way we live etc. You know, "don't lie, be honest". don't steal, it's not right etc. You get the idea. We can teach sound biblical principals, but more so than often I see them viewed as our "Secular" lives from within the church which of course is viewed separately from our "Spiritual" lives, which of course is always associated with our "Salvation", or better put, "being saved".

Thoughts?

This is not meant to be a one-liner zinger, but it is the simplest answer...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Salvation is being saved from death and given eternal life.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi John,

Yes, a portion of salvation is being saved from death and given eternal life.

A few questions if I could. And yes, they are questions of curiosity, not of inquisition.

If the wages of sin is death, then we know that death comes by what we do because wages are not of grace, but by deeds. They are earned. In other words, sin entered into the earth by disobedience, and not just by thought, but through action as well.

But eternal life comes though Christ when we are born again. And eternal life is not a destination, it's a reality that includes now. In other words, eternity has no beginning and eternity has no end. That is to say, it is an innate part of God. So, within this understanding of eternity, then eternity is also now wouldn't you agree?

If this is true, then it makes me think of this passage. James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

So really, we are saved from sin, and we know that there will be no sin in heaven, so the sin we are talking about is within this little sliver or eternity we call now. It is not that we don't sin, we do. But we have one who testifies for us, and through His testimony and by his blood, we are justified.

Another idea is that God gives us the strength to resist sin, and thus saves us from that sin as well.

Thoughts?

 

[farouk]

Saved from the penalty and power of sin. Ephesians chapter 2 makes good reading in this context.

 

[Adullam]

Saved from the power of sin. We are saved through the keeping power of God (grace) in order to walk in newness of life.

 

[Danus]

Saved from the power of sin. We are saved through the keeping power of God (grace) in order to walk in newness of life.

I like this, and agree. However, I would say we are saved from God's wrath in judgment of our sin against his righteousness. I'd say this is the emphasis of salvation.

 

[Christ_empowered]

When I was at Jesus camp, they always said we were saved from "sin, satan, and death." I agree. For me, Heaven is awesome, but I can't really imagine it. What's been wonderful for me are the transformations here on earth. I care about other people and ideas. I feel more human. I always, always talk about C.S. Lewis, but...here goes, once more (this time with feeling): C.S. Lewis writes that being a Christian is a fundamental part of being human. I guess its like saying there's not really sinner vs Christian; its human beings vs spiritually dead semi-humans. Just based on my own life, I agree.

So, I'd say we're saved from the power of sin, the hold of satan, Hell, and we're also saved from a life not worth living.

 

[Elijah674]

Can one be saved without first submiting to the Lords conditions. Acts 5:32

[32] And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the [Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him].

And do you think that Adam did not lose his rightous garment & was seen naked of SALVATION?

And that God was just 'FUDGING' when he told Adam & Eve that they would both die?? Hey folks, this was while both were still sinless! BEFORE THE CONDITIONAL PLAN OF SALVATION WAS EVEN OFFERED!

 

[elizabethbraddock]

There really isn't a distinct separation, as salvation completely covers our deliverance from the power of sin. However, we tend to categorize salvation as the event that occurs when we place our faith in the redemptive work of Christ, and sanctification as the continual, lifelong process that you speak of.

 

[Danus]

So, I'd say we're saved from the power of sin, the hold of satan, Hell, and we're also saved from a life not worth living.

...Hey that's awesome CE. Very well worded, and captures the whole-ness of salvation, I think.

Can one be saved without first submiting to the Lords conditions. Acts 5:32

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things,(A) and so is the Holy Spirit,(B) whom God has given to those who obey him.â€

In this case "obey" is simply in reference to those who respond to God, and those who respond are those who will be saved, and those who will be saved are those chosen.

....so, to answer the question "can we be saved without first submitting to God? That depends on what you mean by submitting, because there are those who will not ever "submit" then the answer is no, but that's only because those who will not respond can't, won't, could careless and are left to their own self, and we can complain about those people all we want, but to do that is to waste our effort, since they will not be saved anyway. The gospel and our witness is only for the those who WILL be saved.

 

[farouk]

There really isn't a distinct separation, as salvation completely covers our deliverance from the power of sin. However, we tend to categorize salvation as the event that occurs when we place our faith in the redemptive work of Christ, and sanctification as the continual, lifelong process that you speak of.

elizabethbraddock:

When people talk of 'salvation' as an event, I think the meaning is the point of salvation, that is to say, when they were born again. Another word for salvation, or an alternative translation for SOTERIA is deliverance, and this deliverance, by God's grace, is of the spirit, soul and body, and partly has a future aspect.

Blessings.

 

[stovebolts]

Saved from the power of sin. We are saved through the keeping power of God (grace) in order to walk in newness of life.

I like this, and agree. However, I would say we are saved from God's wrath in judgment of our sin against his righteousness. I'd say this is the emphasis of salvation.

I like both of these

The reason I started this post is because out of 5 step siblings and a biological brother, I am the only Christian. Being a Christian has changed my life in so many ways and especially the way I live each day. In a way, you could also say that Christianity saved my life, and my life is fuller than before I was a Christian.

We say that we are saved from sin, and I think that there is a literal aspect to this. As a Christian, I want to please God, so I try to abide by how God wants me to live. Will I ever attain perfection in this life? I certainly don't entertain the idea that it's even possible. But I can say that the bar has been set by the instruction of Jesus himself and each of us should strive for excellence. As scripture states elsewhere, "Be holy, because God is holy" and actually, the more I'm aware of my sins, the more dependent and thankful I am toward Jesus.

I hate that I even have to mention this, but no, we are not trying to earn our eternal salvation, but in a way the way we live and the choices we make do impact our daily lives and it's already been established that today is also a part of eternity. Again, I believe scripture tells us not to quash the spirit, yet we do that daily. But more to my point, by living the way Jesus instructs, I believe that brings us closer to the way God initially designed us to live. Living this way of life is also a way to avoid sin and because we avoid sin, our lives are fuller... because we know that sin brings death and death isn't just about a physical death.

I can use an example of living a sinful life with a spouse, and it ends in divorce and that marriage dies. There are consequences to sin and it effects even the innocent. However, if both man and woman submit to God and both repent from the sinful behavior that destroys their marriage, then the marriage survives, and can ever flourish.

 

[John O]

Its not so much what we are saved from (plenty of excellent answers given already) but I wonder if the question should be what are we saved to?

Eternity is the vehicle in which that we become will live on forever and that eternity is granted to us at being "born again". So between the salvation event and eternity is a huge space of unanswered questions.

I believe that we are called to be mature sons of God who will rule and reign with Christ. I further think that while salvation is given to us as a free gift maturity is developed.

I just don't see where maturity is taught to Christians meaning that many become like the good seed that is destroyed by the weeds and birds of prey. So many Christians end up having a dangerous period at about 10 years after being saved when the boredom of the modern Christian life sees them drifting into secular things because they quite frankly feel useful and valued.

The Church needs to address this event when people make a decision to follow Christ or we will continue with the current levels of people who once followed Christ and now do not or have become so lukewarm they can not see their current state.

John O

 

[Danus]

Its not so much what we are saved from (plenty of excellent answers given already) but I wonder if the question should be what are we saved to?

Eternity is the vehicle in which that we become will live on forever and that eternity is granted to us at being "born again". So between the salvation event and eternity is a huge space of unanswered questions.

I believe that we are called to be mature sons of God who will rule and reign with Christ. I further think that while salvation is given to us as a free gift maturity is developed.

I just don't see where maturity is taught to Christians meaning that many become like the good seed that is destroyed by the weeds and birds of prey. So many Christians end up having a dangerous period at about 10 years after being saved when the boredom of the modern Christian life sees them drifting into secular things because they quite frankly feel useful and valued.

The Church needs to address this event when people make a decision to follow Christ or we will continue with the current levels of people who once followed Christ and now do not or have become so lukewarm they can not see their current state.

John O

This is deep water, but you bring up an interesting issue and one that vales a division in Christianity.

Is it the churches job to ensure the salvation of anyone? Is the church responsible for anyone's growth in their relationship with God?

The answer to this question depends on where someone stands in regard to how they see the church.

For me the church has played no role in my own salvation other than to point me to God. I do not blame the church for any failure, nor do I praise the church for anything it does I deem successful. I think God handles the church just fine, and that includes me, but our view of the church depend on our relationship with God.

Another example: We could say that a university produces intelligent people. Would that be correct? No. In reality it gives people, regardless of intellect, the means to seek, practice, and indulge their own interest in obtaining an education, but the university is not responsible for their own failure or lack of success in life. However, I know many lazy educated idiots who think that because they have a degree, the world owes them a job that pays X amount.

That might be a little off topic, but there are similarities in how we view institutions, and when we see Christ church as an institution I think we run into a very big problem if we link that to salvation.

We've done this in the past, and we still do it today. We tend to hold the church accountable for the spiritual failures of man in saying the church does not do enough.

Don't get me wrong. There are valid criticisms of the church in it's failures, but if we are Christians then we are the church and those failures are ours, but the failure of growth in salvation, is not the churches, and it's not God's. It's not even those whom are saved, but lacking, because anyone saved will grow regardless.

.....There is the division I spoke about. People like to talk about walking away from their salvation. Really? Isn't that just like dropping out of college or something, because it's too hard, or the school did not live up to what one thought of it?

I think the notion of giving up salvation is a ridiculous one, a false one. I can see visiting a church and thinking this is not for me, and never coming back. I can even see proclaiming to be saved by God and reading the bible from cover to cover and saying; "this is not for me" and walking away, but no one who is saved ever leaves salvation. Does not happen, because to leave it is to not have eternal life, and the bible clearly says that those whom ARE saved will have eternal life. ETERNAL life....that means always, forever, no going back.

It does not say some will have eternal life and then they wont, because they will give it up.

You can walk away from the invitation, but once you step into the celebration the doors are locked behind you, and Christ through you in salvation are the one who locked them.

 

[farouk]

Danus:

The church's role is certain to participate in the Great Commission (Matthew 28).

But it is the work of the Holy Spirit to bring about the new birth (John 3).

Blessings.

 

[Kidron]

Saved from the wrath to come, among other things. (1st Thess 1:10)





K

 

[Jethro Bodine]

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death." (1 John 5:16-17 NASB)

You can be alive physically but still be living in death and destruction. The thing the church doesn't seem to know much about is that eternal life is a quality of life as much as it is a never-ending life.

Just as the condition for staying in and dwelling in the abundance of the Promised Land for the Israelites was obedience, so we also, as God's people, must obey God to dwell in and enjoy the manifest blessing of his promised abundance.

Sadly, many will only be able to hear that through the distortions of the prosperity gospel presently popular in the church. But there really is a true prosperity gospel that isn't getting much air time in the church. And the way into it is to walk in obedience according to the fruit of the Spirit. That is how we obey God, loving others, and how we enter into the manifest blessing of his love he has reserved for those who obey him:

"21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” (John 14:21 NIV1984)

10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." (1 John 15:10-11 NIV1984)

It isn't enough to just be a Christian to enjoy God and the promise of abundant life--his eternal life. You must obey him in regard to the fruit of the Spirit. And his promise to us if we do that he will show himself to us and fill us with his joy. Not just a joy of hearing, but a joy of experiencing--a complete joy that comes from both hearing and doing.

 

[Danus]

Danus:

The church's role is certain to participate in the Great Commission (Matthew 28).

But it is the work of the Holy Spirit to bring about the new birth (John 3).

Blessings.

I agree, and once we are born again, we are the church participating.

 

[for_his_glory]

Right now we are saved by grace unto the promise of our salvation as when we first became renewed/born again by the very Spirit (Holy Spirit) and word of God we began our reign with Christ here on this present Earth when we decided to pick up our cross and carry on in the footsteps of Christ as it is no longer we that live, but Christ that lives in us and His Spirit works through us. In Matthew 24 Jesus said that those who endure until the end are those who will be saved.

Endure until the end of what? The end of all the abomination that makes desolate or in other words the end of sin when Christ returns and Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and false prophet for eternity.

 

[stovebolts]

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death." (1 John 5:16-17 NASB)

You can be alive physically but still be living in death and destruction. The thing the church doesn't seem to know much about is that eternal life is a quality of life as much as it is a never-ending life.

Just as the condition for staying in and dwelling in the abundance of the Promised Land for the Israelites was obedience, so we also, as God's people, must obey God to dwell in and enjoy the manifest blessing of his promised abundance.

Sadly, many will only be able to hear that through the distortions of the prosperity gospel presently popular in the church. But there really is a true prosperity gospel that isn't getting much air time in the church. And the way into it is to walk in obedience according to the fruit of the Spirit. That is how we obey God, loving others, and how we enter into the manifest blessing of his love he has reserved for those who obey him:

"21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.†(John 14:21 NIV1984)

10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." (1 John 15:10-11 NIV1984)

It isn't enough to just be a Christian to enjoy God and the promise of abundant life--his eternal life. You must obey him in regard to the fruit of the Spirit. And his promise to us if we do that he will show himself to us and fill us with his joy. Not just a joy of hearing, but a joy of experiencing--a complete joy that comes from both hearing and doing.

Amen, and that's more on point of what I'm talking about. As Christians, we are called to live "The Way". Why? Because that's more in line with "The Way" God created us to live. Living the way of Christ will save one from much destruction...