[__ Science __ ] Saving Electricity

[WIP]

Hey WIP,,,I don't want to get into a deep discussion about this...
BUT
Michael74 is rightly sarcastic.
I feel the same way.

I think that anything we do to save energy is good since we're running out of fossil fuel.

But why are we running out of fossil fuel?

Because we've become a society DEPENDENT on energy...
we couldn't live without it.

Look down that list that you made back there.....what have you REALLY given up?

NOTHING!

We're not willing to give up anything to save fuel...
Which is why we're looking for new methods.

We don't want to go back to the 800's.

It doesn't require giving anything up necessarily but rather using energy wisely and efficiently as much as practical so as not to waste it unnecessarily. Imagine the energy savings and environmental impact if we all just upgraded our incandescent lamps to LED. This is from the US Department of Energy website and only speaks about US consumption. Next, imagine world-wide impact and add turning off lights when leaving rooms.

Widespread use of LED lighting has the greatest potential impact on energy savings in the United States. By 2027, widespread use of LEDs could save about 348 TWh (That's Terrawatt-hours) (compared to no LED use) of electricity: This is the equivalent annual electrical output of 44 large electric power plants (1000 megawatts each), and a total savings of more than $30 billion at today's electricity prices.

https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/.../lighting-choices-save-you-money/led-lighting

Your comment got me thinking....what do I give up?

• I give up the comforts of year round climate control in my home by refusing to use AC until I feel it is absolutely necessary and turning down the thermostat during the winter, dressing warmer, and throwing an extra blanket on the bed. If it was up to me I would keep our home daytime winter temp at about 68 F. and drop to 63 during the night but I compromised with my wife and set it for 70 daytime and 66 at night.
• I give up a few minutes each day closing drapes/blinds and windows during summer days and opening them at night to help keep our home cooler. Likewise I give up a few minutes each day during the winter closing drapes/blinds at night and opening them on sunny days to take advantage of the sun's heating power through the glass windows.
• I wait sometimes for days so I can combine multiple trips before jumping in the car and running to town instead of just running to town when I need things.
• I give up a few seconds of time by driving the speed limit or less rather than rushing everywhere I go. I also accelerate slowly and decelerate early at stops. My driving habits return above rated fuel economy with my vehicle without sacrificing more than a few seconds of time.
• I give up the power snow blower and use a hand shovel to remove the snow off our 130 foot long sidewalk. Speaking of which, I just cleaned off 3" of new snow two days ago and now we are expecting up to a foot of new snow beginning tomorrow (Friday) and ending Saturday morning.
• When I first moved to this home I shoveled our entire driveway by hand but that got to be a bit too much at over 300 yards long.
• I choose paper bags over plastic whenever possible at retail outlets because paper is far more biodegradable than plastic and probably easier to recycle. Admittedly, I haven't taken it to the next level by using reusable cloth bags but my wife does.
• Our water faucets and shower head is low flow to reduce the amount of water used and therefore reducing the amount of energy required to run our well pump and septic pump.
• With our daughters moved out now, we keep their bedroom doors closed and don't heat the rooms during the winter since they are not used.

Just a few things that came to mind.

 

[jasonc]

Clothe bags must be washed and thus using more water and power and well water consumption must also to keep pressure constant require wells turned on or off.

 

[WIP]

Clothe bags must be washed and thus using more water and power and well water consumption must also to keep pressure constant require wells turned on or off.

The question would be in the trade off. One wouldn't just wash that bag by itself in a washing machine as that would be very wasteful but including it with the rest of the laundry would be more environmentally friendly. That bag wouldn't need to be washed very often either. My best guess is that in the grand scheme of things, the cloth bag would be far more environmentally friendly.

 

[WIP]

Hey WIP,,,I don't want to get into a deep discussion about this...
BUT
Michael74 is rightly sarcastic.
I feel the same way.

I think that anything we do to save energy is good since we're running out of fossil fuel.

But why are we running out of fossil fuel?

Because we've become a society DEPENDENT on energy...
we couldn't live without it.

Look down that list that you made back there.....what have you REALLY given up?

NOTHING!

We're not willing to give up anything to save fuel...
Which is why we're looking for new methods.

We don't want to go back to the 800's.

Another thought came to mind. We'd have to go back a lot farther than the 800's to predate our dependence on energy. We used fire for heating, cooking, and forging metals since very shortly after the fall of man. But, I agree that we are extremely reluctant to give up anything to save energy. Like I pointed out in another thread, we are a spoiled society.

 

[jasonc]

The question would be in the trade off. One wouldn't just wash that bag by itself in a washing machine as that would be very wasteful but including it with the rest of the laundry would be more environmentally friendly. That bag wouldn't need to be washed very often either. My best guess is that in the grand scheme of things, the cloth bag would be far more environmentally friendly.

Must be washed often.the studies I have seen on the germs. My,wife has one for use on large shopping days but its not cloth. Its using gortex. It keeps it cold .

Plastic Bags are the Healthier Option – for Families and the Environment - Bag the Ban

Recyclable plastic bags don’t pose the potential health risks associated with alternative bags. Hundreds of millions of petroleum based, polypropylene reusable bags are imported from China and other countries each year.1 These are, by far, the dominant type of reusable bags, and some have been...

www.bagtheban.com

Reuseable Shopping Bags Could Be Making You Sick

They could pose a serious health threat.

www.google.com

One says each time ,hot florida not good to ignore how e coli loves heat,and salmonella

 

[WIP]

Must be washed often.the studies I have seen on the germs. My,wife has one for use on large shopping days but its not cloth. Its using gortex. It keeps it cold .

Plastic Bags are the Healthier Option – for Families and the Environment - Bag the Ban

Recyclable plastic bags don’t pose the potential health risks associated with alternative bags. Hundreds of millions of petroleum based, polypropylene reusable bags are imported from China and other countries each year.1 These are, by far, the dominant type of reusable bags, and some have been...

www.bagtheban.com

Reuseable Shopping Bags Could Be Making You Sick

They could pose a serious health threat.

www.google.com

One says each time ,hot florida not good to ignore how e coli loves heat,and salmonella

Wonder what people are putting into them. Most things purchased at a grocery are sealed in containers of one form or another.

 

[jasonc]

Wonder what people are putting into them. Most things purchased at a grocery are sealed in containers of one form or another.

beats me

 

[GodsGrace]

It doesn't require giving anything up necessarily but rather using energy wisely and efficiently as much as practical so as not to waste it unnecessarily. Imagine the energy savings and environmental impact if we all just upgraded our incandescent lamps to LED. This is from the US Department of Energy website and only speaks about US consumption. Next, imagine world-wide impact and add turning off lights when leaving rooms.

Widespread use of LED lighting has the greatest potential impact on energy savings in the United States. By 2027, widespread use of LEDs could save about 348 TWh (That's Terrawatt-hours) (compared to no LED use) of electricity: This is the equivalent annual electrical output of 44 large electric power plants (1000 megawatts each), and a total savings of more than $30 billion at today's electricity prices.

https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/.../lighting-choices-save-you-money/led-lighting

Your comment got me thinking....what do I give up?

• I give up the comforts of year round climate control in my home by refusing to use AC until I feel it is absolutely necessary and turning down the thermostat during the winter, dressing warmer, and throwing an extra blanket on the bed. If it was up to me I would keep our home daytime winter temp at about 68 F. and drop to 63 during the night but I compromised with my wife and set it for 70 daytime and 66 at night.
• I give up a few minutes each day closing drapes/blinds and windows during summer days and opening them at night to help keep our home cooler. Likewise I give up a few minutes each day during the winter closing drapes/blinds at night and opening them on sunny days to take advantage of the sun's heating power through the glass windows.
• I wait sometimes for days so I can combine multiple trips before jumping in the car and running to town instead of just running to town when I need things.
• I give up a few seconds of time by driving the speed limit or less rather than rushing everywhere I go. I also accelerate slowly and decelerate early at stops. My driving habits return above rated fuel economy with my vehicle without sacrificing more than a few seconds of time.
• I give up the power snow blower and use a hand shovel to remove the snow off our 130 foot long sidewalk. Speaking of which, I just cleaned off 3" of new snow two days ago and now we are expecting up to a foot of new snow beginning tomorrow (Friday) and ending Saturday morning.
• When I first moved to this home I shoveled our entire driveway by hand but that got to be a bit too much at over 300 yards long.
• I choose paper bags over plastic whenever possible at retail outlets because paper is far more biodegradable than plastic and probably easier to recycle. Admittedly, I haven't taken it to the next level by using reusable cloth bags but my wife does.
• Our water faucets and shower head is low flow to reduce the amount of water used and therefore reducing the amount of energy required to run our well pump and septic pump.
• With our daughters moved out now, we keep their bedroom doors closed and don't heat the rooms during the winter since they are not used.

Just a few things that came to mind.

I'll bet we all do most of the above to save money, even if it's not to save the planet.

And as we use less electricity, the cost will become higher and higher in order to maintain the system.

Who's saving the 30 billion? Us?
You could be sure the energy companies do not want to lose this money,,,so we end up paying for it anyway.

As to energy savings for the good of man....

This reminds me of Al Gore.
He flew around on a private jet,,who cares if he changed the lightbulbs?

He had every modern convenience in his home while telling us to shut the lights.

My point is that to really save on electricity, we'd have to give up more than waiting for a really hot day to turn on the AC. We'd have to have NO AC and we're not willing to do this.

Do you have a dryer for your clothes?
How about a washing machine?
A dishwasher?
Do you iron your clothes?
Do you watch TV?
Do you dry your hair with an electric dryer?
Do you have hot water in your home?
Heat?
Do you use a refrigerator?
A freezer??
How about an electric car?
Is your TV, radio, etc, ready to be turned on at the click of a button?

The above would be how to REALLY save on electricity.
Everything helps...but it won't be enough.
Other sources must be found.

 

[Luminous_Rose]

Haha, my husband and I used to be experts on this...until we had kids xD we used to unplug any appliances we were not currently using. We used natural sunlight during the day. We used $1 solar lights at night and carried them around like torches lol. It was great fun! We still turned on lights if we really needed them. Our electric bill would be only like $40 when the weather was good (when we didn't need AC).

Now a days, it is a challenge because we are working on teaching the kids good habits and turning off lights when they leave a now empty room. Our electric bill is a little higher than I would like, but it is not bad.

Some day I would probably like to invest in solar panels because we have too much sunlight here to waste.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Haha, my husband and I used to be experts on this...until we had kids xD we used to unplug any appliances we were not currently using. We used natural sunlight during the day. We used $1 solar lights at night and carried them around like torches lol. It was great fun! We still turned on lights if we really needed them. Our electric bill would be only like $40 when the weather was good (when we didn't need AC).

Now a days, it is a challenge because we are working on teaching the kids good habits and turning off lights when they leave a now empty room. Our electric bill is a little higher than I would like, but it is not bad.

Some day I would probably like to invest in solar panels because we have too much sunlight here to waste.

wow

 

[GodsGrace]

Haha, my husband and I used to be experts on this...until we had kids xD we used to unplug any appliances we were not currently using. We used natural sunlight during the day. We used $1 solar lights at night and carried them around like torches lol. It was great fun! We still turned on lights if we really needed them. Our electric bill would be only like $40 when the weather was good (when we didn't need AC).

Now a days, it is a challenge because we are working on teaching the kids good habits and turning off lights when they leave a now empty room. Our electric bill is a little higher than I would like, but it is not bad.

Some day I would probably like to invest in solar panels because we have too much sunlight here to waste.

How about an opinion on my post no. 28?
Did I make everyone feel guilty??
daninthelionsden could chirp in too!

 

[daninthelionsden]

I'll bet we all do most of the above to save money, even if it's not to save the planet.

And as we use less electricity, the cost will become higher and higher in order to maintain the system.

Who's saving the 30 billion? Us?
You could be sure the energy companies do not want to lose this money,,,so we end up paying for it anyway.

As to energy savings for the good of man....

This reminds me of Al Gore.
He flew around on a private jet,,who cares if he changed the lightbulbs?

He had every modern convenience in his home while telling us to shut the lights.

My point is that to really save on electricity, we'd have to give up more than waiting for a really hot day to turn on the AC. We'd have to have NO AC and we're not willing to do this.

Do you have a dryer for your clothes?
How about a washing machine?
A dishwasher?
Do you iron your clothes?
Do you watch TV?
Do you dry your hair with an electric dryer?
Do you have hot water in your home?
Heat?
Do you use a refrigerator?
A freezer??
How about an electric car?
Is your TV, radio, etc, ready to be turned on at the click of a button?

The above would be how to REALLY save on electricity.
Everything helps...but it won't be enough.
Other sources must be found.

I find it interesting, but I have to admit, I cherry pick the ideas I like and skip on the ones I find too much for my taste.......electric car??? NEVERRRRRR!

 

[jasonc]

How about an opinion on my post no. 28?
Did I make everyone feel guilty??
daninthelionsden could chirp in too!

No,for what living ?im not for waste but realistically what ever new power source is found it will be sooner or later a repeat of the same problem .

 

[WIP]

I'll bet we all do most of the above to save money, even if it's not to save the planet.

And as we use less electricity, the cost will become higher and higher in order to maintain the system.

Who's saving the 30 billion? Us?
You could be sure the energy companies do not want to lose this money,,,so we end up paying for it anyway.

As to energy savings for the good of man....

This reminds me of Al Gore.
He flew around on a private jet,,who cares if he changed the lightbulbs?

He had every modern convenience in his home while telling us to shut the lights.

My point is that to really save on electricity, we'd have to give up more than waiting for a really hot day to turn on the AC. We'd have to have NO AC and we're not willing to do this.

Do you have a dryer for your clothes?
How about a washing machine?
A dishwasher?
Do you iron your clothes?
Do you watch TV?
Do you dry your hair with an electric dryer?
Do you have hot water in your home?
Heat?
Do you use a refrigerator?
A freezer??
How about an electric car?
Is your TV, radio, etc, ready to be turned on at the click of a button?

The above would be how to REALLY save on electricity.
Everything helps...but it won't be enough.
Other sources must be found.

The demand for electricity continues and will continue to grow. I don't think power companies are concerned about the loss of income capital. In fact, most of the programs that are available here are designed to reduce the power demand on the grid.

As I've already shared, just the single act of replacing incandescent lamps with LED could have a huge impact on our electrical demand.

To give up everything as you suggest would require that we stop living altogether. We exist therefore we impact our environment just as any animal or plant. It's a fact of life. What we need to keep in perspective is to be frugal and respectful of our environment which God gave us.

We don't always have to drive our cars to get around. We can walk or ride a bicycle, which is something else I neglected to mention in my list of things I do. I live about 2 miles from a small town of about 1,300 and during the summer if I need to run to town for something I'll use my bicycle including those times when I need to get something from town. In major cities where rush-hour traffic is heavy, getting to work that is only five miles away would likely be faster on a bicycle than in a car and much better for one's health. Imagine the impact if just 10% of those drivers did that.

When I stop at stop lights or stop signs with my new truck, the engine automatically shuts off until I lift my foot off the brake pedal. According to the on-board computer, this has a positive impact on my average mileage because when the weather gets colder and it doesn't shut off, I can see my average mileage drop while idling.

Taking steps to be a little environmentally conscious is a good thing, not only to save money and energy but also to help keep our air and water pollution at lower levels. Here in the US with over 200M adults, even a little from each can have a combined major impact.

 

[WIP]

I find it interesting, but I have to admit, I cherry pick the ideas I like and skip on the ones I find too much for my taste.......electric car??? NEVERRRRRR!

I'm not convinced electric cars are that environmentally friendly. Here in the US, if people began to use them on a widespread basis, the electrical power grid would be overloaded. This means we would have to majorly expand our production of electricity and with current technology that would require more coal, natural gas, or nuclear power plants because solar and wind power would not be adequate yet and the infrastructure for solar and wind power would be massive and occupy huge expanses of land, which creates another problem.

Remember, wind and solar power only makes up about 9% of our total electrical power. Hydro accounts for about 7% and biomass about 2%. That leaves the rest (~82%) coming from coal, natural gas, and nuclear.

 

[WIP]

I'll throw this out there too. Anyone that believes global warming is at least in part caused by human existence might want to consider this.

According to the US Environmental Protection Agency there are five basic sources for greenhouse gas emissions in the US (2017).

1. Transportation (29%). On average we put on almost double the miles on our vehicles compared to when I was a child in the 1970's. And here in the US the population has grown by about 50% in the same time period as well.
2. Electricity (28%). It's no secret that we are extremely dependent on electricity and becoming more dependent every year.
3. Industry (22%). We all depend on jobs and industry plays a huge role.
4. Commercial and Residential (12%). While our homes are more efficient, along with a 50% increase in population, our average home has nearly doubled in size while our average family size has nearly cut in half, which pretty much negates the improved efficiency.
5. Agriculture (9%). Over the years farmers have become more efficient using bigger equipment, smarter technology, and improved farming practices to reduce the number of trips over the ground and cut down on fuel consumption among other things. I'll give an example from my own experience. When I first started farming in 1993 I was using a 25hp gasoline powered Farmall M tractor to do my fall tillage (plowing). I used a 3-bottom 14" moldboard plow and was confined to using 1st gear. On average I plowed about 1 acre per hour and it took about 2-1/2 gallons of gas per hour. In the later 90's I acquired a 100hp diesel powered Allis-Chalmers tractor along with a 4-bottom 16" moldboard plow and a 10' chisel plow. Using the moldboard plow I cover 50% more ground (about 5') with each pass and I only use about 1 gallon of fuel per hour. When I use the chisel plow, I cover double the amount (about 10') per pass and still use only about 1 gallon of fuel per hour. If I could afford brand new equipment with the latest GPS technology I could be even more efficient but I'm just a hobby farmer working only about 50 acres each year and can't pencil out the cost.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I find it interesting, but I have to admit, I cherry pick the ideas I like and skip on the ones I find too much for my taste.......electric car??? NEVERRRRRR!

Ok, well, I'll back off on the "neverrrrrr" on one condition. Make it to where these electric cars can be plugged in as an option, but what I want to see are battery replacement stations like you see gas stations. You'd pull into a battery replacement station. They uncouple your quick release depleted battery and slap in a fresh one and you'd be on your way with no more time spent than a fill up would take at a gas station. We put men on the moon so they can easily redesign this present looney "charge all night" set up they got now.

 

[jasonc]

Ok, well, I'll back off on the "neverrrrrr" on one condition. Make it to where these electric cars can be plugged in as an option, but what I want to see are battery replacement stations like you see gas stations. You'd pull into a battery replacement station. They uncouple your quick release depleted battery and slap in a fresh one and you'd be on your way with no more time spent than a fill up would take at a gas station. We put men on the moon so they can easily redesign this present looney "charge all night" set up they got now.

recycling of those ,and costs ,its several grand . you can buy a faster charger but as john and i have said unless in my,case .my,neighbors ,since my xmfr is powered 5 homes ,want to rewire the house to 440,480 and you will pay more for that .until everyone does that .it will switch you from,residential to commercial grade .they won't just allow you to have a 440 ,240 line and only charge for 240,either case the separate cans isn't cheap.

Removing a 72 volt or high car battery won't be cheap or easy .

 

[jasonc]

Unless you drive really far ,300 miles will last a while locally

 

[GodsGrace]

I find it interesting, but I have to admit, I cherry pick the ideas I like and skip on the ones I find too much for my taste.......electric car??? NEVERRRRRR!

Good!
I mean, we're trying to save electricity to save on the source...and we go and invent electric cars?
LOL