[__ Science __ ] Scientific argument for God's existence

[Boaz]

I bet if I called you a pig I would be banned. I am truly looking for evidence of a god. But you seem to think I am just supposed to accept what you say as true without using reason to evaluate it. If you have some evidence then please present it, if you refuse, then ok.

By trampling do you mean disagree?


Can you comment on my predicament as a non believer? Why should I believe you over another Christian?

You aren't actually using reason to evaluate what we say. I know that may surprise you and that you vehemently disagree but believe me, you have actually and deliberately abandoned ALL reason. The Bible also has something to say about your approach to God. It says these things are foolishness to those who are perishing. A person with the capacity to reason might wonder what this perishing means, who does it and how can I avoid it. And then start a search for those things instead of starting by demanding that God reveal Himself to you in a way you demand and setting out to make His followers give you actual physical evidence of His existence. Ridiculous!

 

[JohnDB]

You aren't actually using reason to evaluate what we say. I know that may surprise you and that you vehemently disagree but believe me, you have actually and deliberately abandoned ALL reason. The Bible also has something to say about your approach to God. It says these things are foolishness to those who are perishing. A person with the capacity to reason might wonder what this perishing means, who does it and how can I avoid it. And then start a search for those things instead of starting by demanding that God reveal Himself to you in a way you demand and setting out to make His followers give you actual physical evidence of His existence. Ridiculous!

Well,
Its also the fact that he is desperately trying to get us to use a yardstick to measure and prove God's existence with that device...as if it were possible.
Which is why he is asking the impossible. It is impossible.

I can try to suck a grand piano up my nose through a straw...but that ain't going to work out either. Even a Baby Grand piano isn't going to work out for me.

And in the same fashion you cannot use a measuring device to prove the existence of God. And science is all about measuring and quantifying.

 

[Boaz]

Well,
Its also the fact that he is desperately trying to get us to use a yardstick to measure and prove God's existence with that device...as if it were possible.
Which is why he is asking the impossible. It is impossible.

I can try to suck a grand piano up my nose through a straw...but that ain't going to work out either. Even a Baby Grand piano isn't going to work out for me.

And in the same fashion you cannot use a measuring device to prove the existence of God. And science is all about measuring and quantifying.

This is all so very true. I was posting to this thread a long time ago and pretty much figured if we could put God in a syringe (PLEASE EXCUSE MY USE OF THE GROTESQUE, BOTH READERS AND GOD) this person wouldn't accept the proof but ask for more, so I left the thread. I was surprised at its longevity. Our patience and hope is astounding!

 

[Edward]

Huh. Been awhile since Clizby chimed in here I see. That's ok though, we did give him lots to chew on. I bet he'll be back.

 

[Barbarian]

If the universe and mathematical relationships were different, the universe would be uninhabitable by mankind. The universe is fine tuned to make it a suitable home for people.

The Weak Anthropic Principle (WAP) says that the universe we see is there because if it was different, we wouldn't be here to see it.

The Strong Anthropic Principle (SAP) says that the universe is the way it is, because we are here.

Sometimes, the SAP is referred to as the Completely Ridiculous Anthropic Principle.

 

[Michael74]

The Weak Anthropic Principle (WAP) says that the universe we see is there because if it was different, we wouldn't be here to see it.

The Strong Anthropic Principle (SAP) says that the universe is the way it is, because we are here.

Sometimes, the SAP is referred to as the Completely Ridiculous Anthropic Principle.

The universe is the way it is because it was created for us. To be our abode.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

The universe is the way it is because it was created for us. To be our abode.

The universes is our abode, or just Earth? If I remember correctly mankind was created with a task to be responsible for. To look after the Earth. I don't think the rest of the universe is part of that equation, unless it becomes so after we are remade in new heavenly bodies. But the great thing is that in spite of the vastness of the universe, God placed us with a specific place in the universe. We can look up at the stars and be in awe, even if we never make it out there to live off of earth.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Weak Anthropic Principle (WAP) says that the universe we see is there because if it was different, we wouldn't be here to see it.

The Strong Anthropic Principle (SAP) says that the universe is the way it is, because we are here.

Sometimes, the SAP is referred to as the Completely Ridiculous Anthropic Principle.

Oh, yeah. The SAP principle is toooo funny.
We could maybe have an affect on our planet in some way...but I doubt we could have an affect on the whole universe.

How much pride do those believers have???
LOL

 

[GodsGrace]

The universes is our abode, or just Earth? If I remember correctly mankind was created with a task to be responsible for. To look after the Earth. I don't think the rest of the universe is part of that equation, unless it becomes so after we are remade in new heavenly bodies. But the great thing is that in spite of the vastness of the universe, God placed us with a specific place in the universe. We can look up at the stars and be in awe, even if we never make it out there to live off of earth.

Great point.
Only the planet earth belongs to us...
and it doesn't even belong to us....it belongs to the enemy.
2 Corinthians 4:4
4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

 

[Michael74]

The universes is our abode, or just Earth?

The rest of the universe supports the earth. The sun keeps us warm. Jupiter protects us from excessive meteorites. The few meteorites that get through replace moisture that goes off into outer space in the upper atmosphere. Everything works together to make the earth a cozy place for us to roost.

 

[GodsGrace]

The rest of the universe supports the earth. The sun keeps us warm. Jupiter protects us from excessive meteorites. The few meteorites that get through replace moisture that goes off into outer space in the upper atmosphere. Everything works together to make the earth a cozy place for us to roost.

I read that if the earth was just a very short distance closer to the sun, it would have been too hot - or just a very short distance farther from the sun and it would have been too cold. As it turns out, it's just right.

Can't remember the distance, but it was really short. If anybody knows it, I'd love to be reminded.

 

[Michael74]

I read that if the earth was just a very short distance closer to the sun, it would have been too hot - or just a very short distance farther from the sun and it would have been too cold. As it turns out, it's just right.

Yes, that's true. Its a bit more complicated than that though. The sun is gradually getting warmer over time. Once upon a time the sun was only 70% as hot as it is today. To compensate, the earth had additional greenhouse gases in the air, different plants, and the moon was closer to the earth. The closer moon heated the earth through tidal forces. Now the moon is further from the earth, so it doesn't produce as much heat on the earth, which helps balance the sun's additional heat.

There are many other factors which all work together to make the earth a cozy place to dwell. Its all a finely tuned balancing act, with the entire universe involved in making the earth cozy for mankind.

 

[jasonc]

A stars age they grow cooler ,not warmer.

 

[Who Me]

A stars age they grow cooler ,not warmer.

Sorry not correct, one of the problems for evoultion is the cool sun paradox, in that when life was 'evolving' our sun was significantly cooler so much so that the average temp would be -3 degrees, far to cold for life to evolve.

It follows then that the sun has grown brighter and hotter.
In the latter stages the sun will cool and also vastly expand in size.

 

[Who Me]

Try the arguments for fine tuning of creation @

An Introduction to the Anthropic Principle and Fine Tuning

Most of the readers of this blog have probably heard about the anthropic principle and the fine-tuning of the universe. However, because ...

www.michaelgstrauss.com

sample quote:-"I liken the finely-tuned universe to a panel that controls the parameters of the universe with about 100 knobs that can be set to certain values. If you turn any knob just a little to the right or to the left the result is either a universe that is inhospitable to life or no universe at all."

or listen to this lecture:-

Robin Collins lectures on the fine-tuning argument at Pepperdine University

Details: Dr. Robin Collins is a Professor of Philosophy and Chair of the Department of Philosophy at Messiah College. Collins is the foremost defender of what is known as the teleological argument …

winteryknight.com

 

[jasonc]

Sorry not correct, one of the problems for evoultion is the cool sun paradox, in that when life was 'evolving' our sun was significantly cooler so much so that the average temp would be -3 degrees, far to cold for life to evolve.

It follows then that the sun has grown brighter and hotter.
In the latter stages the sun will cool and also vastly expand in size.

As it ages.I,didn't say I was a believer in old universe but you,just posted that when a star grows old it expands and cools.its s slow process .

A year,100 or a thousand it won't be noticed .

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, that's true. Its a bit more complicated than that though. The sun is gradually getting warmer over time. Once upon a time the sun was only 70% as hot as it is today. To compensate, the earth had additional greenhouse gases in the air, different plants, and the moon was closer to the earth. The closer moon heated the earth through tidal forces. Now the moon is further from the earth, so it doesn't produce as much heat on the earth, which helps balance the sun's additional heat.

There are many other factors which all work together to make the earth a cozy place to dwell. Its all a finely tuned balancing act, with the entire universe involved in making the earth cozy for mankind.

Also, when the Big Bang happened (as in Genesis) the amount of every chemical was exactly right. The force of the explosion should have immediately caused it to implode -- instead it didn't.

 

[Michael74]

A stars age they grow cooler ,not warmer.

The result is that Main Sequence stars get slowly brighter as they age.

As stars fuse hydrogen into helium, helium builds up in the core. Helium is heavier than hydrogen, which increases gravity near the core. Fusion accelerates, causing the star to get warmer.

To put this another way, main sequence stars (like our sun) are in hydrostatic equilibrium. Pressure at the core must balance gravity. Fewer nuclei (due to 2 hydrogen nuclei forming 1 helium nuclei) means each nuclei must move faster to balance gravity.

 

[GodsGrace]

As stars fuse hydrogen into helium, helium builds up in the core. Helium is heavier than hydrogen, which increases gravity near the core. Fusion accelerates, causing the star to get warmer.

To put this another way, main sequence stars (like our sun) are in hydrostatic equilibrium. Pressure at the core must balance gravity. Fewer nuclei (due to 2 hydrogen nuclei forming 1 helium nuclei) means each nuclei must move faster to balance gravity.

As I understand it,,,our sun will become hotter because of the mass becoming smaller and eventually it will just explode.

I think if it became colder, it would not explode.

??

 

[Michael74]

As I understand it,,,our sun will become hotter because of the mass becoming smaller and eventually it will just explode.

Helium flash. When it gets hot enough to fuse the helium in their cores, stars explode.