Scientific proof of life after death?

[By Grace]

NDE's are real' and can't nobody tell me any different.

Have you ever been on a "death watch"? That is where the person is near to death, and knows it, and there is no way due to disease, etc that he can be revived? I have.

Universally there are "visions" of others, usually loved ones who have also previously surrounding the dying person. But there is also a conscience awareness of the person's ability to see both the living and the dead.

Until it happens that you are able to watch this transition process, I recommend that you lessen your degree of being so adamant. It is neither a salvational, nor a theological issue.

It surely is a possibility where demons can mimic things, but next time you have a funeral in your church, ask the pastor if he or anyone else was with the recently departed one. then ask him or anyone who was with the dying person to describe what the dead person was doing prior to death.

Make your decision on that.

 

[Obadiah]

Have you ever been on a "death watch"? That is where the person is near to death, and knows it, and there is no way due to disease, etc that he can be revived? I have.

Universally there are "visions" of others, usually loved ones who have also previously surrounding the dying person. But there is also a conscience awareness of the person's ability to see both the living and the dead.

Until it happens that you are able to watch this transition process, I recommend that you lessen your degree of being so adamant. It is neither a salvational, nor a theological issue.

It surely is a possibility where demons can mimic things, but next time you have a funeral in your church, ask the pastor if he or anyone else was with the recently departed one. then ask him or anyone who was with the dying person to describe what the dead person was doing prior to death.

Make your decision on that.

Well, in the first place, those people weren't "dead" yet. The people in the article I posted and the boy from the book that was mentioned were actually dead when this happened to them. (No heart beat, no brain activity, nothing.) The researchers made a distinction between what they experienced compared to those who have just been unconscious but still had brain activity while having hallucinations.

I wonder then, how do you explain the woman who "travelled" outside the hospital and saw the shoe on the ledge that she could not have seen any other way, and when they looked for it, the shoe was found exactly as she described it? Or how do you explain the young boy who met his sister who had died in a miscarriage and he had never been told of, as well as suddenly knowing other things that he had never known before? Or how do you explain the other similar events where people haven't just seen people they know, such as in a hallucination, but have seen things that they couldn't have possibly known?

 

[By Grace]

Well, in the first place, those people weren't "dead" yet. The people in the article I posted and the boy from the book that was mentioned were actually dead when this happened to them. (No heart beat, no brain activity, nothing.) The researchers made a distinction between what they experienced compared to those who have just been unconscious but still had brain activity while having hallucinations.

I did not deal with that for a reason, and that has to do with the meaning of the term "scientific observation". It means that something can be objectively seen, accurately measured, repeated and recreated. NONE of those terms apply to NDEs.

Specifically, I replied to the statement of Lewis W, who adamantly stated, "NDE's are real' and can't nobody tell me any different. " Which I realize now, that I misinterpreted to read that he did NOT believe in NDEs. Sorry for the confusion

I wonder then, how do you explain the woman who "travelled" outside the hospital and saw the shoe on the ledge that she could not have seen any other way, and when they looked for it, the shoe was found exactly as she described it? Or how do you explain the young boy who met his sister who had died in a miscarriage and he had never been told of, as well as suddenly knowing other things that he had never known before? Or how do you explain the other similar events where people haven't just seen people they know, such as in a hallucination, but have seen things that they couldn't have possibly known?

I cannot explain the experiences of others. I can tell you of my personal experiences and of other similar experiences related to me by people being with the dying. Neither my experiences nor the experiences of others should be considered as "absolute and universal truth" because we are making assumptions about a realm of being that is entirely different from the one we inhabit. From the Bible, we know that humans in physical realm cannot see the spiritual world. In contrast, we also know from the Bible that the spiritual world can see the physical realm.

I can tell you of me "seeing things" that were not knowable to me, and given as an answer to prayer about specific situations. So what I am doing is offering a supportive note of caution, and urging others not to "dabble " in the spiritual realm and make speculative generalizations. Surely it exists, and just as surely, Christians and others can be led astray.

As a result, I have created a Christian razor, similar to Occam's Razor. It says UNLESS JESUS CHRIST IS SPECIFICALLY GLORIFIED, STAY AWAY FROM IT!

If Christians rely on experience as their yardstick to measure truth, then their theology is nothing more than the same sort of "revelational truth" which the Mormons use.

 

[Obadiah]

I did not deal with that for a reason, and that has to do with the meaning of the term "scientific observation". It means that something can be objectively seen, accurately measured, repeated and recreated. NONE of those terms apply to NDEs.

Specifically, I replied to the statement of Lewis W, who adamantly stated, "NDE's are real' and can't nobody tell me any different. " Which I realize now, that I misinterpreted to read that he did NOT believe in NDEs. Sorry for the confusion



I cannot explain the experiences of others. I can tell you of my personal experiences and of other similar experiences related to me by people being with the dying. Neither my experiences nor the experiences of others should be considered as "absolute and universal truth" because we are making assumptions about a realm of being that is entirely different from the one we inhabit. From the Bible, we know that humans in physical realm cannot see the spiritual world. In contrast, we also know from the Bible that the spiritual world can see the physical realm.

I can tell you of me "seeing things" that were not knowable to me, and given as an answer to prayer about specific situations. So what I am doing is offering a supportive note of caution, and urging others not to "dabble " in the spiritual realm and make speculative generalizations. Surely it exists, and just as surely, Christians and others can be led astray.

As a result, I have created a Christian razor, similar to Occam's Razor. It says UNLESS JESUS CHRIST IS SPECIFICALLY GLORIFIED, STAY AWAY FROM IT!

If Christians rely on experience as their yardstick to measure truth, then their theology is nothing more than the same sort of "revelational truth" which the Mormons use.

And you DO make some good points here. By the way, just to clarify, I'm not trying to say that the article I posted IS "scientific" proof. That's why I put a "?" at the end of the title. The discussion we've all been having here is exactly what I was hoping for and I appreciate seeing everyone's well thought out views on this.

 

[Obadiah]

...From the Bible, we know that humans in physical realm cannot see the spiritual world...

How would you describe John's vision that resulted in his writing Revelation? Was that different than what you mean by seeing the spiritual world?