Seven Times JESUS Tells Us Who He Is = John 6;35-37

[BB1956]

Free said,
Yes, and the title "Son of God" is itself a claim to deity. The Jews understood this and tried to stone Jesus for blasphemy because he was making God his own Father. There simply is no getting around the fact that John, Paul, and Peter all thought Jesus was God. And why would that be, unless it was because Jesus actually claimed to be God and was understood by the Jews claiming such?[/QUOTE\]

I understand you believe when the scriptures say Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, you understand that to mean Jesus is claiming deity. But since you have constantly been trying to teach me that deity in regard to Jesus means that Jesus is God, you and I will remain in disagreement. The word deity doesn't mean only God.
I understand Jesus is a god. “God” means a strong one, and Christ is called “The mighty God” at Isaiah 9:6, “a god” at John 1:1, and “the only-begotten god” at John 1:18. The very fact that YHWH is called the Almighty God indicates that there are other gods not so mighty, not almighty like him. So when someone like Thomas calls Jesus God, and then three verses later Jesus is called “the Son of God,” as we read at John 20:9-31: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name," I certainly see there was no objection to John’s reporting that Thomas addressed Jesus as a deity, but John does not say that Thomas’ address to Jesus was to make us believe that Jesus was The God, but John says it was to make us believe Jesus was God’s Son. In this same chapter at John 20:17 Jesus said: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” He was not ascending to himself. So yes Jesus has deity but that deity isn't that he's YHWH God Almighty, YHWH God Almighty is the Father and God of Jesus.

 

[Free]

Free said,
Yes, and the title "Son of God" is itself a claim to deity. The Jews understood this and tried to stone Jesus for blasphemy because he was making God his own Father. There simply is no getting around the fact that John, Paul, and Peter all thought Jesus was God. And why would that be, unless it was because Jesus actually claimed to be God and was understood by the Jews claiming such?[/QUOTE\]

I understand you believe when the scriptures say Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, you understand that to mean Jesus is claiming deity. But since you have constantly been trying to teach me that deity in regard to Jesus means that Jesus is God, you and I will remain in disagreement. The word deity doesn't mean only God.

Since there is only one true, living, actual God, any claim to deity is a claim to be God.

I understand Jesus is a god.

It simply cannot mean that. That is polytheism and so is antithetical to Christianity.

“God” means a strong one, and Christ is called “The mighty God” at Isaiah 9:6, “a god” at John 1:1, and “the only-begotten god” at John 1:18. The very fact that YHWH is called the Almighty God indicates that there are other gods not so mighty, not almighty like him. So when someone like Thomas calls Jesus God, and then three verses later Jesus is called “the Son of God,” as we read at John 20:9-31: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name," I certainly see there was no objection to John’s reporting that Thomas addressed Jesus as a deity, but John does not say that Thomas’ address to Jesus was to make us believe that Jesus was The God, but John says it was to make us believe Jesus was God’s Son. In this same chapter at John 20:17 Jesus said: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” He was not ascending to himself.

Again, the claim to be the Son of God was a claim to deity, and since there is only one deity, it is a claim to be God in nature. And there are no other gods, even God himself says so:

Deu 32:39 "'See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Isa 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
...
Isa 44:8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any."

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,
Isa 45:6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
...
Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other.
...
Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
Isa 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

It's also worth pointing out this verse:

Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

That is repeated throughout the Bible, yet, Heb 1:8-12 shows us something additional:

Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

(All ESV.)

So, the Father first uses YHWH of the Son and then says that the Son "laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands." This is in perfect agreement with John 1:1-3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Col 1:16. The only logical explanation is that there is a plurality within the one God, hence the Trinity.

So yes Jesus has deity but that deity isn't that he's YHWH God Almighty, YHWH God Almighty is the Father and God of Jesus.

It must mean that; there is no other alternative.

 

[BB1956]

Free said,

expand...

Since there is only one true, living, actual God, any claim to deity is a claim to be God.[/QUOTE\]

The oldest and best manuscripts at John 1:18 is translated only begotten god. John speaks of Jesus as being the only-begotten Son of God at John 1:14 and 3:16. In this passage, at John 1:18 he calls Jesus “the only-begotten god,” a term that emphasizes Jesus’ unique position in God’s arrangement. Jesus can rightly be called “a god” because of the way the term “god” is used in the Bible. This title conveys the basic idea of a mighty one, and it is even used of humans in the Scriptures. (Psalm 82:6) Jesus is “a god,” or a mighty one, because he is given power and authority from the Almighty God YHWH his Father. (Matthew 28:18; 1Corinthians 8:6; Hebews 1:2).

I know that there is only one true God, but I also know if the Only True God wants to call certain humans gods(Psalm 82:6) or Satan a god, (2 Corinthians 4:4) he's certainly not wrong or in error for doing so, there is still only one True God, even though God calls certain humans gods and Satan a god. Since the True God in his scriptures, call certain humans who were judges, and a angelic being who is Satan gods, its reasonable to understand, for me anyway, that Jesus is a only begotten god who had a beginning and is part of creation(Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14; John 1:1) The scriptures make it clear that the Father and God of Jesus is the one who has given the only begotten Son all his authority an power. No one has given the only True God YHWH his authority and power so he is subject to no one, but Jesus is subject to the only True God YHWH because YHWH God is Jesus Christ Father and God.

 

[miamited]

Hi again,

You know, I visited this thread the other day and made some comments. This morning at 4:30a.m. I was awakened with Scripture running through my thoughts. Matthew 16:16-17. I'm good with that and Jesus seems to have told Peter that it was the Holy Spirit who had revealed that to him. He apparently forgot to correct Peter that the correct understanding as to who Jesus is,...is God.

I know that someone wrote previously that some of the disciples got the message, but apparently Peter wasn't one of them.

God bless,
Ted

 

[BB1956]

miamited said,
I was awakened with Scripture running through my thoughts. Matthew 16:16-17. I'm good with that and Jesus seems to have told Peter that it was the Holy Spirit who had revealed that to him. He apparently forgot to correct Peter that the correct understanding as to who Jesus is,...is God.[/QUOTE\]

If you're saying that Matthew 16:16,17 is inaccurate now because Jesus Christ said the Holy Spirit had revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God. But now you're saying Jesus forgot to correct Peter to help him understand that Jesus is God, I'm going to disagree with you. Matthew 16:16,17 isn't inaccurate if that is what you're trying to say. Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, just as Matthew 16:16,17 teaches us.

 

[miamited]

 

[miamited]

Hi BB1956

My position is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. That's also my testimony. I apologize if my facetious sarcasm was lost on you.

God bless, brother
Ted