Gman said:
Matt 5:18…I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
"Everything" was “accomplished†at the cross. “Everything†in "the Law" was “until†the cross.
If you read through to the end of the chapter you will see that Christ is making the distinction between the old commands, including the ‘Ten’, and His new commands.
We obey the new commands of Christ, not the old outdated ones which included the ‘Ten’.
God wrote the Ten Commandments in the presence of Moses and then He erased them in the presence of Christ.
Col 2:13-14...He has made you alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements (or law) that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Just because God wrote them doesn’t mean they cannot be erased.
This argument does not hold.
I'll ask again. Who wrote the Ten Commandments?
'They' made law for the lawless, not for the righteous.
Right. The "righteous" obey God.
The law I’m referring to is the Ten Commandments, not the Torah.
One and the same brother. The Ten Commandments are part of the Torah.
Verbatim:
The Ten Commandments is not good advice for righteous men, it is good advice for lawless men. The righteous man receives his advice from a living spiritual source, and not simply from a written package of Ten Commandments.
So, would you insist then that God doesn't provide "good advice?" Paul was a murderer? David. Moses. Are you seriously suggesting that God never provided these men with good advice?
He uses His own divine standard, not the standard He made for puny man.
But if "He" made a standard would it not be reflective of His character?
Yes, 'love is to obey', but we obey Christ, not Ten Commandments.
Who wrote the Ten Commandments?
Our not stealing or lying or murdering is in obedience to Christ commands, not in obedience to the Ten Commandments.
Who wrote the Ten Commandments?
Matt 5:21-22…You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder…’ But I (Jesus) tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.
In the same way…You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not steal’ But I (Jesus) tell you that anyone who even have the desire to steal from his brother will be subject to judgment.
You obey what Jesus “tell you†today, not what the Ten Commandments told you “long agoâ€Â.
Sounds to me as if Jesus put an even higher bar to reach by "spiritualizing" the law.
It is detrimental to the harmony of lawless men, not righteous men. The harmony of righteous men exists in Christ.
Right. By being obedient to Him.
His “instruction, council and hearing His good advice†are expressed to us through Christ, not through Ten Commandments. We conform to the image of Christ by living according to what Christ commands, and not according to Ten Commandments.
Obedience to the Ten Commandments does not produce Christ-likeness. Obedience to Christ does.
Rom 8:3-4…For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son…in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us.
The carnal mind is at enmity to the law and can never be subject to it. That means in order to obey the law one must be in "spirit" to observe it.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
The righteous requirements of the law is not the Ten Commandments. The righteous requirements of the law is Christ Himself.
Rom 3:21-22…But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify (about Christ). This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
Our righteousness is based on Christ’ divine standard, not based on the standard of Ten Commandments made for mere men.
Christ heightened understanding of the law, He didn't abolish it.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The seventh-day Sabbath was not and is not God’s custom. The seventh-day Sabbath was made for man, not for God. God existed long before man or the seventh-day Sabbath was made.
The seventh-day Sabbath was made as a part of the physical creation. It is not eternal as God is, therefore it cannot be His custom. He existed long before it was made for man.
There were two things created before sin entered the world that God has used to tie His creation together....the institution of marriage and the sabbath. Both were with God and created by Him and were used as an expression of His character, and His desire for His creation. Since they were created by an eternal God those institutions themselves are eternal.
See Isaiah 66.
The verse says exactly that:
1 Tim 1:9…The law is made not for a righteous man, but for the lawless and...the ungodly...for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers...for liars…
“The law†being described here included idolaters, those who dishonor parents, murderers, adulterers, liars, etc. These are commands from the Ten Commandment law.
By extension, this law would include the Sabbath command, since, as you would say, we cannot separate one command from the others.
Paul tells us that this Ten commandment law was made for lawless men, and not for righteous men.
The sabbath was made for "man" not the lawless. It is the "lawless" that ignore God's commandments not the other way around. It is the "lawless" that ignore God's desire to commune with His people.
Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
The Sabbath day rest was a sign between God and Israel. The Sabbath 'Person' Rest is the sign between God and us.
Matt 11:28-29…Come to me (Jesus), all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me…and you will find rest for your souls.
Our rest is in the living Christ, not on the seventh-day Sabbath.
Rest here is not sabbath but repose.
And this is how our rest in Christ is recognized:
John 13:34-35…A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
The "sign" between God and us is not the seventh-day sabbath; the "sign" between God and us is LOVE.
"If you love me keep my commandments."
This is why the law was given to the Jews, because they were rebels.
And yet it was required to be observed by all who entered the land of Israel.
This is also why the law was made for lawless men, so that when they rebel they would be condemned by that law for their rebellion.
The law condemns those who rely on it.
Rom 7:9-10…Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
It condemns those who don't rely on it.
What are the wages of sin and how is sin determined?
For a righteous man there is no law, and, therefore, no condemnation. He is secure in Christ.
For the righteous man there is obedience to God's commandments.
1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rom 8:1…Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
One can only follow Him in spirit and in truth.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 5:13…Sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
For a righteous man there is “no law†so his sins are not taken into account, he remains justified through a living faith in Christ.
That's because the righteous obey God, the "unrighteous" do not hear God.
Psa 18:44 As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me:
Dan 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that [is] written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
Hsa 4:1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because [there is] no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
Luk 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
The law was made for a lawless man, so when a lawless man sins, his sins are taken into account, he is found guilty and is condemned for his sins. The law does that, that’s why we need to avoid it and rely on the righteousness of Christ alone.
The righteous obey Christ and "His" laws, statutes and commandments.
2 Cor 3:7-9…If the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory…will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
2Cr 3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Common sense can also prevent us from getting tickets.
You would think. Apparently there isn't too much common sense these days. Those of the "Spirit" exercise good judgment.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The “word of God†is Christ who we obey, not Ten Commandments.
Who wrote the Ten Commandments?
God does not keep the Sabbath. God rested on the first seventh day of the first week of creation. He did not rest since then.
God most certainly keeps the sabbath!
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:
All the Torah is good, but the goodness of Torah is all fulfilled in Christ.
Christ didn't "fulfill" the law so it can be broken.
Torah’s teachings were about Christ. Torah pointed to Christ. All that is written in Torah is fulfilled in Christ. Christ superseded Torah. We now look to Christ for teachings, not to Torah.
And as such Christ never did away with the law, but "spiritualized" it.
This is the same problem the Jews had; their heads were buried so deep in Torah they were unable to see the very Christ that Torah was pointing them to.
And this was Christ' response to them:
John 5:39-40…You diligently study the Scriptures (or Torah) because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures (or Torah) that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
This was said by Christ regarding the "prophecies" of the law and prophets that pointed to Christ.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
In what way did did the 7th commandments point to Christ?
Paul understood this when he said:
Rom 7:1-4...Do you not know, brothers  for I am speaking to men who know the law  that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?...So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him (Christ) who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.
Died "to" the law, not "from" the law.
Through faith we are considered by God to be dead, buried and resurrected in Christ (Rom 6:3-4).
Through "faith" we become obedient to God. In fact we cannot be obedient to God without faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Through our death and burial we became dead and buried to the law's authority over our lives; it does not have any authority over us anymore; it does not and cannot tell us what to do.
Not only can it but we "establish" the law through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
We "keep the law" not to be saved but because we are saved.
Through our resurrection we have been raised up under the authority of Christ; Christ and Christ alone is our authority. We now look to Christ for guidance, direction and, as you would say, "good advice", we do not look to law. We are dead to law and alive to Christ, and it is Christ we now obey, not Ten Commandments.
No, you "disobey" Christ by ignoring His word and His clear commandments. Christ never "abolished" the law. It still exists.
One can only truly obey Jesus by faith. Through faith the law is "established."
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Christ is superior to Ten Commandments, and in Him we Live.
Jesus "IS" the Ten Commandments. He spoke them, He wrote them, and He wrote them on every heart that hears Him. He is the same yesterday, today and forever! Praise the name of the Lord who never changes what He has uttered from His mouth!
Psa 138:4 All the kings of the earth shall praise thee, O LORD, when they hear the words of thy mouth.
Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 59:21 As for me, this [is] my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that [is] upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
Zec 8:9 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Let your hands be strong, ye that hear in these days these words by the mouth of the prophets, which [were] in the day [that] the foundation of the house of the LORD of hosts was laid, that the temple might be built.
