Sexual Sin

[Classik]

Sexual sin

What really makes sexual sin actually a sin? It's got me a bit thinking deeply.
It is quite different from other sins (a bit related to others tho). In what sense? Rape is a crime! It is a sin! It has to do with physical force!!! This is similar to stealing or robbing someone... Force is required.

If A and B love each other they may decide to bond sexually. Here there is no violence. A and B just responded to a biological stimuli or urge. There has been an agreement here, a preagreement.

We can see how different this act is from killing or stealing - or rather robbing. Robbing or stealing is a crime because you have taken what that doesn't belong to you (unless the person is a kleptomaniac or has mental problem). Killing is another crime and a sin etc etc etc. Hope you understood my ramble;) ta

 

[Nick]

Engaging in sexual activity out of wedlock is stealing from that person's future spouse.

 

[Sparkey]

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.

New International Version (©2011)

Sexual immorality is unique in this manner. Not only is it stealing from others, robbing them of their fidelity, not only does it (like all sin), when willfully practiced, prevent one from full relationship with God, it is a sin against our bodies. Our bodies.

I too have thought about this. Who hasn't, right? There is something about the way our bodies learn things that is a mystery to me. When I imagine putting my hand near something hot the stuff that I learned in school about how the nervous system works comes to mind. Even before the pain signal reaches the brain our body sends a signal back to the muscles to jerk our hand away. We physically react to pain. Would it be too much of a stretch to think that we might also have physical reactions to pleasure? What if we were to find out that sexual immorality attempts to teach and train our bodies so that we might become more and more willing to disobey God and to sacrifice our fidelity to Him for the sake of a moment's pleasure?

Would that not be one of the most twisted things we may imagine? Sexual congress, blessed in the marital bed, is holy. Part of its purpose is to expresses the relationship we (as the Church) are to seek with our Savior. What kind of twisted thing is it to then use what is created to show forth the Love of God for the purpose of reinforced teaching of our bodies to continue to sin, to continue to ignore the Word of Truth and to establish a pattern of disobedience?

 

[Brother Mike]

If A and B love each other they may decide to bond sexually. Here there is no violence. A and B just responded to a biological stimuli or urge. There has been an agreement here, a preagreement.

We can see how different this act is from killing or stealing - or rather robbing. Robbing or stealing is a crime because you have taken what that doesn't belong to you (unless the person is a kleptomaniac or has mental problem). Killing is another crime and a sin etc etc etc. Hope you understood my ramble ta

Giving into the Flesh, and making a excuse for it when the Word says different is going to lead to problems. Sometimes very serious problems. Sin produces death, death of your wealth, death and sickness in your body. Don't give the devil any place. Marry them, if they are who you want to be with. God views sex as a covenant agreement that unite both into ONE. You go having sex without that confession before God it is called defiled and unclean.

Mike.

 

[Obadiah]

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[Classik]

Thank you all for your input. I think the 'why' of this thread is simple. Just like we did last Saturday...again we'd be going into the streets again next Saturday. Last Saturday we met a lot of young people and spoke to them. We met more of the youth than adults. Again next Saturday I believe we will do more (and with teenagers). I think I should be doing most of the talking. And of course we know the problems teenagers usually face (not just 'em alone - including some adults). So, I need to talk about the OP to them. Believe me those teenagers are always ready for questions. One of the questions people usually ask is, what makes it a sin? Should I just tell them the bible detests it...and it would just do??? Do they need convinction? Do they need reaons other than those stated in scripture or provided by some of us on the thread. I hope my intent is clear now. We are gonna face a smart bunch of teenagers and young ones. Thanks

 

[Obadiah]

One of the questions people usually ask is, what makes it a sin? Should I just tell them the bible detests it...and it would just do???

I think you already know that won't satisfy them. All it will do is shut them up because they will know it's an unreasonable cop out that says you don't want to talk about it, but it won't change their minds.

Do they need convinction?

That's the work of the Holy Spirit so I leave it up to Him and don't worry about it when speaking on these kind of subjects.

Do they need reaons other than those stated in scripture or provided by some of us on the thread.

If witnessing for Christ to teenagers, what other reasons could you possibly give them that they haven't already heard 1000 times?

One of the questions people usually ask is, what makes it a sin?

And a good question it is. You really need to study and have a good understanding of what the Bible really says about this subject before you preach to teenagers about it. Not what their parents, their school teachers, or their church has hammered into them all their lives, but what the Bible says. Teenagers have a remarkable knack for seeing through all the rhetoric and dogma. Many won't confront you with that though. If they catch you at it they will just silently ignore everything you say on every subject after that. Study and know what the Bible really says about it first.

 

[Messenger]

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.

Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace,
whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

Always give God all the glory. Submit to His will.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners:
but if any man be a worshipper of God,
and doeth His will, him He heareth.

GTG!

 

[Mountain Man]

If sex were not what it is there would probably be about 20 people on the planet,apart from that it's just another source of misery and torment.

 

[Classik]

Thanks again I'd do just like YOU adviced...allowing HIM to do it HIS own way.

 

[Guest]

I read somewhere that sexual sin is harder to kick than heroin, just so people know what their up against. This addiction does bring on withdrawals, so be ready and fight with all you got for purity and glory my friends. The book 'Every Man's Battle' was a good read.

1 Cor 6:18-20 FLEE from sexual immorality. Every other sina person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. <sup class="versenum">19 </sup>Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, <sup class="versenum">20 </sup>for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. God wants us to flee, and have our eyes and minds set on him. So teach yourself and learn how to bounce your eyes away.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Yes, it is quite different from other sins. But the difference isn’t as much in God’s view of it as it is in the traditional view the church has taught us, which at times has been quite hysterical in my opinion.

You noticed that, too?

I was sitting in a service in a "full gospel" or "holy roller" church back in the 90's. The pastor brought a friend in to preach one Sunday. This man stated: "All sex is sin, sex within marriage is just forgiven sin". He was trying to scare (mostly teens) away from sex, so he went over the line.

There are at least three things wrong with that statement:

1) It can't ALWAYS be sinful to reproduce.
2) To say that an ongoing sin is forgiven goes against all I have been taught.
3) It's such an outrageous remark that it seems to be beyond discussing.

 

[Classik]

LOL. Pizza.

 

[Classik]

Thank you Pizza. Your digital presence here makes me happy.

 

[Sparkey]

This man stated: "All sex is sin, sex within marriage is just forgiven sin".

The statement is, as you say, over the line. It contradicts the fact that the marriage bed is declared holy. Teens have a remarkable way of reading behind the lines and although they may not directly confront obvious lies they do tend to mark those who say such things and the damage is done. Another potential source of inspiration (because I know the speaker was well-intentioned) goes down the drain and even the most pure words spoken by him in the future are tainted by doubt.

That's kind of sad, isn't it? But another way of thinking about it is that the Lord really does know how to protect His sheep, even (and maybe especially) the lambs.

 

[handy]

I was sitting in a service in a "full gospel" or "holy roller" church back in the 90's. The pastor brought a friend in to preach one Sunday. This man stated: "All sex is sin, sex within marriage is just forgiven sin". He was trying to scare (mostly teens) away from sex, so he went over the line.

There are at least three things wrong with that statement:

1) It can't ALWAYS be sinful to reproduce.
2) To say that an ongoing sin is forgiven goes against all I have been taught.
3) It's such an outrageous remark that it seems to be beyond discussing.

This reminds me of something a Sunday School teacher told my kids during Sunday School... That the Holy Spirit leaves us when we have sex with our spouse... that we no longer have the "indwelling".

Christians just get downright weird when it comes to sex. :dunno

 

[reba]

God made sex .... He created our body parts.

 

[About the Son of God]

Thank you all for your input. I think the 'why' of this thread is simple. Just like we did last Saturday...again we'd be going into the streets again next Saturday. .... And of course we know the problems teenagers usually face (not just 'em alone - including some adults). So, I need to talk about the OP to them. Believe me those teenagers are always ready for questions. One of the questions people usually ask is, what makes it a sin?

A sin steals the good from some action. For something to be a sin, it has to take away something that ought to exist. Murder takes away life, etc.

In the case of sexuality, it's primary purpose is the bringing forth of children; and the second purpose is the aiding of two people in maintaining their relationship. ( Cf: Genesis 1:28, Genesis 2:24-25 ).

Sparrowhawke is correct when he talks about the body learning; A sexual act, and *especially* orgasm, leads to a permanent change in the brain at very least. Such changes can be actively measured using nuclear medicine, or functional MRI; the exact same way that permanent changes to the brain due to certain (not all) drugs can also be measured.

I would recommend "Change your brain, change your life" by Dr. Daniel G. Amen M.D. as a general secular introduction to what can be proven via. scientific method (To be read criticially, of course, which is beyond the thread's scope. )

In any event; sexuality causes two people two become one in the flesh; and that includes more than just physical juxtaposition, nor does is only mean the child once the two bodies fuse into one. It means, however, that the bodies of two people have become inextricably entangled.

The factual findings of science, over time, converge toward the conclusions found in scripture regarding what is damaging to us; and what is good for us -- and give a new depth of understanding to those who are stable enough to study both science and scripture carefully. If you plan on being a resource for youth, it might be a good idea to study the secular side as well -- for inevitably youth tempted toward atheism are mixed in to such groups.

Within scripture, we're told: Man was made from the slime of the earth:
Genes 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Genes 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The image here is that of the fine dirt particles wetted (slime) being formed into man; and of that same material a woman is also made.( as a modern science didactic... Man's slime has X and Y chromosomes, but when God took from the body of the man, the woman only got the X part. )

Even today: When a man and a woman come together, we know they share (gasp) slime.

Given these general thoughts; I think you might be able to see why the ancients understood the slick molding material of the potter (clay/slip) and seminal fluids to be of the same purpose; for later in scripture we are told "God is the potter" and "we are the clay". We are also told that God forms the child 'in the womb" (and what is wetter than that?!) etc.

The important thing to grasp, is that the substance of a man and woman transfer during the sexual act -- and the two become united. It can not all be "washed" away afterward in the shower. The memories remain and the changes to the brain remain; I find that men most easily understand it when told that each person one has sexual relationship with -- you really do leave "a little bit of yourself" with each of them; and your mind will return to them.

The questions of contraception will undoubtedly be raised as a "solution" to such problems; but it fails.
The mind is still changed, the person will still dream of these others even if they forcibly put them out of their mind during the day. Moses was so aware of this, that although he did not brand wet dreams "sin", he none the less made men wash and stay out of the camp for a period of time when they had them: Leviticus 15:16, Deuteronomy 23:10.

The very purpose of sexuality is to make the bodies of two people "cleave" together permanently (Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:3-10, etc.); So that any attempt to have sex without full completion -- merely triggers the mechanisms in the body meant to bring people together, but without a proper mate to *stay* with forever.

False triggering of the mind is the general problem found in all kinds of lusts; for, one might examine a less controversial lust: Lust of the stomach (gluttony). And the same issue arises, people will think -- I can just empty my stomach.... but any study of the issue will arrive at another problem caused by that purging (Bolemia and anorexia); not to mention that we know there are people starving in the world for which wasting food shows contempt for.

I think of it this way:
Jesus said that some demons can only be cast out by prayer and fasting; His saying applies very much to sexual temptation -- prayer and abstinence is *necessary* to remove demons from power over the body *prior* to marriage, or else they will have the opportunity to interfere with the marriage.

A man and a woman can come together in a natural marriage; but if one wants to be joined by God (permanence) then more is required. God will not join two people who break his commands.

 

[Maedchen]

Hi all,

I just wanted to remind you of Jesus' words at this point:

" 'Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.
For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him."
(Mat. 21:31,32)

Of course God hates adultery. But be careful to judge!

Love, Rose

 

[Classik]

Thank you all for your input. I think the 'why' of this thread is simple. Just like we did last Saturday...again we'd be going into the streets again next Saturday. .... And of course we know the problems teenagers usually face (not just 'em alone - including some adults). So, I need to talk about the OP to them. Believe me those teenagers are always ready for questions. One of the questions people usually ask is, what makes it a sin?

A sin steals the good from some action. For something to be a sin, it has to take away something that ought to exist. Murder takes away life, etc.

In the case of sexuality, it's primary purpose is the bringing forth of children; and the second purpose is the aiding of two people in maintaining their relationship. ( Cf: Genesis 1:28, Genesis 2:24-25 ).

Sparrowhawke is correct when he talks about the body learning; A sexual act, and *especially* orgasm, leads to a permanent change in the brain at very least. Such changes can be actively measured using nuclear medicine, or functional MRI; the exact same way that permanent changes to the brain due to certain (not all) drugs can also be measured.

I would recommend "Change your brain, change your life" by Dr. Daniel G. Amen M.D. as a general secular introduction to what can be proven via. scientific method (To be read criticially, of course, which is beyond the thread's scope. )

In any event; sexuality causes two people two become one in the flesh; and that includes more than just physical juxtaposition, nor does is only mean the child once the two bodies fuse into one. It means, however, that the bodies of two people have become inextricably entangled.

The factual findings of science, over time, converge toward the conclusions found in scripture regarding what is damaging to us; and what is good for us -- and give a new depth of understanding to those who are stable enough to study both science and scripture carefully. If you plan on being a resource for youth, it might be a good idea to study the secular side as well -- for inevitably youth tempted toward atheism are mixed in to such groups.

Within scripture, we're told: Man was made from the slime of the earth:
Genes 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Genes 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The image here is that of the fine dirt particles wetted (slime) being formed into man; and of that same material a woman is also made.( as a modern science didactic... Man's slime has X and Y chromosomes, but when God took from the body of the man, the woman only got the X part. )

Even today: When a man and a woman come together, we know they share (gasp) slime.

Given these general thoughts; I think you might be able to see why the ancients understood the slick molding material of the potter (clay/slip) and seminal fluids to be of the same purpose; for later in scripture we are told "God is the potter" and "we are the clay". We are also told that God forms the child 'in the womb" (and what is wetter than that?!) etc.

The important thing to grasp, is that the substance of a man and woman transfer during the sexual act -- and the two become united. It can not all be "washed" away afterward in the shower. The memories remain and the changes to the brain remain; I find that men most easily understand it when told that each person one has sexual relationship with -- you really do leave "a little bit of yourself" with each of them; and your mind will return to them.

The questions of contraception will undoubtedly be raised as a "solution" to such problems; but it fails.
The mind is still changed, the person will still dream of these others even if they forcibly put them out of their mind during the day. Moses was so aware of this, that although he did not brand wet dreams "sin", he none the less made men wash and stay out of the camp for a period of time when they had them: Leviticus 15:16, Deuteronomy 23:10.

The very purpose of sexuality is to make the bodies of two people "cleave" together permanently (Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:3-10, etc.); So that any attempt to have sex without full completion -- merely triggers the mechanisms in the body meant to bring people together, but without a proper mate to *stay* with forever.

False triggering of the mind is the general problem found in all kinds of lusts; for, one might examine a less controversial lust: Lust of the stomach (gluttony). And the same issue arises, people will think -- I can just empty my stomach.... but any study of the issue will arrive at another problem caused by that purging (Bolemia and anorexia); not to mention that we know there are people starving in the world for which wasting food shows contempt for.

I think of it this way:
Jesus said that some demons can only be cast out by prayer and fasting; His saying applies very much to sexual temptation -- prayer and abstinence is *necessary* to remove demons from power over the body *prior* to marriage, or else they will have the opportunity to interfere with the marriage.

A man and a woman can come together in a natural marriage; but if one wants to be joined by God (permanence) then more is required. God will not join two people who break his commands.

One Word: Superb!