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shamb ma la miki tado

Speaking in tounges is part of salvation

  • Yes it is the evidence

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    7
H

Henry

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shamb ma la miki tado

When I was in the UPCI they would break out in tounges, at first I thouhgt it was very spirituall, but after some study what they were doing was not the tounges in the bible.

I also began to notice the same poepele would use the same funny words all the time, mixing it up some but basically the same thing as the last time they spoke in tounges.

So what do you guys think, do we still have tounges today, and if so how do we know if they are genuine and if not why not?

Oh one more thing does a christian have to speak in tounges, as the UPCI says the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit is speaking in tounges.
 
Vicjr

As I mentioned I was in the UPCI at one time, when I left the Mens pastor told me that I had lost my salvation out side of the oneness church, that says allot there.

Later I was visiting with the same guy, and I asked him "Does the bible actually say that speaking in tounges is evidence of the infill?"

He said "Oh yes of coarse we only teach the bible in the UPCI"


"OK" I said "Show me, I would like to see"

He began to thumb through the book of acts, and then through some of other books and finnally set the bible down and said "Well I can'y find it now, but it is there" and then he added "Besides we know it is true because everyone in the book of acts did it"

I replyed to that saying "Not everyone is recorded of having spoken in tonges in the book of acts, so how can we be sure of this"

He said "We have to assume that it is so because so many were recorded that we have to assume that they all did"

Anyways this is how they interpret the bible, the assume, imply methporize and so one.

Henry
 
"He said "We have to assume that it is so because so many were recorded that we have to assume that they all did" "

LOL, Sounds like Human secular reasoning to me. :-?
 
We still have tongues today although it is not necessarily evidence of the Holy Spirit (Mormons claim to speak in tongues) or the only evidence of the filling of the Spirit (boldness, joy). And no, a Christian does not have to speak in tongues.
 
Vicjr

Very secular, they do the same thig that catholics do, they try to iterpret the bible to fit their doctine by using mens logic, and craftfull arguments.

For example the verse were Jesus is talking about being bor again, and he says "you must first be born of the water the of the spirit" and then goes on to talk about the difference between the flesh and the spirit.

Well they say that the the word water referes to water batism, even though there is nothing in that chapter about it, they say it is "washing" by water, that our sins are washed by water so that is what the means, and then the spirit means we speak in tounges, because that is a new testiment salvation experience.

The pastor I know does this all the time, and itis common in all the books and so on that they write against trinitarians.,

Select verses that support, metophorize those that do not, and ignore those thy just can't do anything with.

Oh by the way they make the same claim as the mormons, in that the bible was changed by the trinitarians toi add their doctrine of the trinity, and no the UPCI was given the right translation again.

Sounds like a cult to me
 
From Mark 16:16-17: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;"

So speaking in tongues is suppose to be a sign of a true Christian. However, I do not see where "tongues" are defined in the Bible, so for all I can see, it means people should be multilingual.

Quath
 
Henry, you should excuse me, but why do youhave such a THANG about the UPC ? It's like you have a one-track conversation.
 
Quath said:
From Mark 16:16-17: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;"

So speaking in tongues is suppose to be a sign of a true Christian. However, I do not see where "tongues" are defined in the Bible, so for all I can see, it means people should be multilingual.

Quath

In the Greek the word is glossa, which means language.

2 Corinthians 5:17 says, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

If you've ever heard the difference in the way a person speaks before and after they are saved (really saved, not just pretending) you'd know what that passage in Mark is refering to. It is not refering to babbling in random syllables to impress the simple minded.
 
Rom 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by
the renewing of your mind,..."

Right Jack...good verse. (2 Corinthians 5:17 ) Along with a transforming of the mind, comes a transformation in the way a 'saved' person speaks. To a nonbeliever, some of the things we now say may indeed sound like a 'new tongue' to them.
 
Vicjr said:
Rom 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by
the renewing of your mind,..."

Right Jack...good verse. (2 Corinthians 5:17 ) Along with a transforming of the mind, comes a transformation in the way a 'saved' person speaks. To a nonbeliever, some of the things we now say may indeed sound like a 'new tongue' to them.

I remember a long time ago, a girl I went to college with came back to campus all excited saying she was saved. She was all hyped up and energetic, but the enthusiasm, to me, was obviously superficial. I didn't say anything to discourage her, mainly because I knew she wouldn't have listened. In a short time she had returned to her old ways of doing things. At the end of the semester I went to a different school, and came back on a break to visit my old church. To my surprise I found her attending, and without a word I could tell that what she'd once thought she had, was very apparent now. Her face, her way of talking, everything was different. She was a completely different person. I kept track of her for several years, and what was started in her, continued solidly.

She definitely bore the sign of a new tongue, because her words had become patient, sincere and humble as opposed to the way she previously had been, childish, boastful and immature.
 
steve

Why did paul call the Galations fools and asked who had bewitched them, why do we find several times in the bible, both OT and NT harsh stern warnings against fasle teachers, why are we specifically told not to welcome a false teacher in our house?

Why do we find that 70% of the early church father letters are written to warn against false teachers, who are refered t often as wild beat who will tear you apart and eat your soul.

The UPCI is just another false church, not a christian church any more then that mormons are, they teach a false god, false salvation and a false gospel, they put people under a bondange of legalisim, spiritulally abuse there members and have a cultic controll over the members.

So steve when you ask why do I speak against the UPCI, because they teaching another gospoel and another Jesus, and we are told to speak against such.

NOw understand I am the same with moromonis, scientology, wicca what ever you want, anything that is not biblical, and it is not the people I have a problem with but the teachings and those who teach it, they poeople are innocent victoms of the cult.
 
Henry said:
shamb ma la miki tado

When I was in the UPCI they would break out in tounges, at first I thouhgt it was very spirituall, but after some study what they were doing was not the tounges in the bible.

I also began to notice the same poepele would use the same funny words all the time, mixing it up some but basically the same thing as the last time they spoke in tounges.

So what do you guys think, do we still have tounges today, and if so how do we know if they are genuine and if not why not?

Oh one more thing does a christian have to speak in tounges, as the UPCI says the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit is speaking in tounges.


:B-fly:

I would be careful if I were you, making fun of tongues.
They are of God whether you think so or not.
Acts 10:46: What of this verse?
You are in danger of blasphemy against the holyghost, if you haven't already committed it. But it sounds like you are so disalusioned that you can't see anymore the truth that was before you.
How sad.
You believed a man over the bible and look where you are. One man did you wrong . Your heart was never in it if you fell that easy.
I pray for backslidders like you. I do not hate you or want to shun you as you think. But we will not fellowship for the sake of fellowshipping. The bible says to have no fellowship with the unrighteous. Be ye separate from unbeleivers.
( 2 Corin. 6:14-18) verse 14- "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbeleivers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness"? That sounds like bible to me.

You sound very bitter against the UPCI. It just an organization . It is not God.
But we DO have the truth. We do not interpret it to fit our way. We interpret it through God . We do not MAKE anyone do anything they do not want to. If someone doesnt want to dress modest or do the things that the pastor sets in the house of God, then they do not have to, and they will not stay if they dont want to do these things.

It says in the bible that God gives the pastor the right to set the standards in the church, and if you go against them you may end up lost.
Now, if a pastor sets outrageous standards, then I can undersatnd, he's being dictorial, and will answer to God.

You said you were not even going to a UPCI, that it was a church similar to the UPCI. So how can you judge? Just by what Bernie Gillispie says?
How long did you go to a oneness church?
And what church do you go to now? Is it The "Assembly of the gods"? I don't remember if I asked you.

God bless.
 
"Assembly of the gods"?????!!! Ohhhh, Rose!!! :P :P :P :P :P Shame on you :P

I see I'm not the only one on here who has a wicked sense of humour! Go on with your bad self! :D
 
Rose

You keep doing two things, one when ever doctrine does not agree with UPCI you say we are listening to men, and you keep calling me a backslider because I left a group I realized was wrong,

I do not deny that tounge come from God, I do deny that they are neccary to salvation and nor are the evidence of the infill, the bible does not teach that dear, the UPCI assume it because many did in fact speak in tonges, but no were does the bible clearly say that is the evidence of the infill, and not every single person who was saved did it.

So to be honest dear you are listening to men not me, I stopped listening to them when what they said was not in the word. They will not show you a single verse that says this, they will tell you that since so many did it we assume that everyone did, and it is therefore the evidence, all assumptions.

Paul tells us what tonges are all about, read about there are reasons for it, but salvation and evidence are not there, only assumed.

As for blasfiming the Holy Spirit I am saved, regenerated and in my way to heaven, I can not do that. The sin you are confused about is only commited by the ones who reject the Lord time and time again until they have hardended their heart so much they no longer hear his call. This is what the bible teaches.

Dear I am not a backslider I am actually an ordained minister active in the minstry, Love the Lord and attand a very well rounded bible based church.

Jesus is my savior and Lord dear. So what ever you were trying to say with that unequally yoked verse I am not sure, the verse is the context of marrage to start with, and I am not an unbeleiver.

I do not 'judge' the UPCI by what berrie says, I just found out about berrnies writting, I decern the doctrine of the UPCI as I would any group, by wieghing them against the clear concise teaching of the bible.

God does give us pastors, but he does not say to follow them blindly, he says to test what they say, to test every thing even if an angel tells us. JEsus also warned us that many false teachers would pop up, and if you read the letters written by Paul he was often dealing with false teachers.

We are not to follow just anyone who says they are a pastor, but those who line up with God word,

My decerment with UPCI or oneness churces in general is base on the word of God, UPCI UPC what ever ONENESS doctrine is all in error.

The church I go to now is non denimination, very active in our community our pastor has a master degree in theology and bible study, we are a world wide evengalistic church, we are no small potattos our people work very hard for God.

I think our sit is

http://www.wordofgrace.org or .com or .net Check it out.
 
Steve

Steve said:
"Assembly of the gods"?????!!! Ohhhh, Rose!!! :P :P :P :P :P Shame on you :P

I see I'm not the only one on here who has a wicked sense of humour! Go on with your bad self! :D

:B-fly:

Well, what is your church? :) I have let everyone know mine. I't'll better help me to know where you all are coming from.
I asked Henry, but he won't tell me, or I missed it from somewhere.

God bless.

P.S. I don't agree with the Assembly of the gods either. :roll:
 
Rose

The AG tossed the oneness poeple out of the denimination in the early 20's, this is why oneness ministers to this day bad mouth them.

I did tell you what church I went to on the last page, I even gave you a web link to go and see more, go back one page and check it out.

However you need to understand that were I am coming from is the bible not a church docrtine, I am in the practice of letting men tell me what the bible says, I actually take the time to read it, to study it, to learn about the languages, and so on.

The amount of study that I do would blow you away, I am talking aboutseveral hours everyday, except on Sunday.

Dear you keep looking for a reason that I left the UPCI, you say I must have had a bad experience, or am backslidden, or perhaps men have taught me doctrines, but the truth is that I could not stay were I knew they were teaching in contredictoin to the bible.

Please understand, the bible is te reason that I left, and not only do the UPCI mis represent the bible they also mis represent the teaching of what they call Trinitarian churchs.

And they mis inform their members as the history of the church.

I am not a basher, or hater, I love the people in the UPCI as I do any cult, my problem is the false teaching, that is why I left.

Again I challenge you to stop listening to them, to me, to anyone, and just sit down over the next several months and really study the bible, just as it is written, for what it says, forget the doctrines you have been taught, forget the preconceptions, just read the bible seeking the truth

After all if the UPCi is right then you will see it clearly if not well then you may be at my church very soon.

Oh one last thing, I am not talking about reading verses, or a simple reading, I am talking abou tstudy, about slow reading of entire books, seeking the meaning of the text in full.
 
Henry

A little history of the UPCI:


There was only one church with the twelve apostles and the apostle Paul.

Various groups began to splinter off (such as Judaizers, Nicolaitans, seen in Revelation 2,3). One such splinter group was the Catholics who began to appear around c.120 AD, teaching that Jesus was a separate divine Person from God the Father.

The Catholic church gained supremacy over other Christian groups (including those who remained faithful to apostolic teaching) between 250-325 AD). In 313 AD-325 AD they became the state (official) church of the Roman empire, and began to persecute other Christian groups. Through the Roman emperors and the successors (the empire of Charlemagne in western Europe and the Byzantine empire in eastern Europe) the Catholics remained in power as the favored state religion until the German princes began to back Martin Luther and other nation state rulers began to back Protestant groups following the Rennaissance in Europe.


But apostolic groups continued to exist down through the centuries, especially in eastern Europe (although the favored Catholic, and later Protestant groups-both followers of the trinity teaching-persecuted and harrassed apostolic groups, calling them heretics and executing those who disagreed with them).

The apostolic groups, who continued to preach Acts 2.38, were nearly exterminated in the Old World by the end of the nineteenth century (1890's) and in the early beginning of the twentieth century.

That is why it is significant that in 1900 over in America, God poured out His Spirit in Topeka KS (News Year's eve 1901) when Agnes Ozman, Rev. Charles Parham, and his students began receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

God dealt with Brother Parham about being baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ

In 1913 at the Arroyo Seco, CA Camp Meeting, God showed to Rev. R.E. McAlister


the importance of the Name of Jesus Christ in water baptism and he preached that no one was baptized in the titles Father, Son and Holy Ghost in the New Testament, but rather in the Name of Jesus Christ (McAlister was to later renounce his teaching).
The revelation of this great truth hit John Schaepe in the camp who ran through the camp excitedly proclaiming this great truth. It affected Frank Ewart (he has books that can be purchased at Hazelwood headquarters). Frank Ewart and Glenn Cook both baptized one another in the Name of Jesus Christ.


It was Evangelist Glenn Cook who baptized Elder G.T. Haywood of Indianapolis in the Name of Jesus Christ. All of these men had received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues. God was restoring full salvation in the western world so that the apostolic message could continue down through the centuries as it has.

These men, for the most part, who had joined already the organization called the Assemblies of God (which believed in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but were trinitarian in their theology) were ostracized and effectively forced out of the Assemblies of God in 1916 at a conference in St Louis.

The men who were forced out of the Assemblies of God because of their belief in the Name of Jesus in water baptism formed some smaller organizations through the 1920's and 1930's. It is too complicated to go into here.

One organization, the PMA (Pentecostal Ministeral Alliance) later became the Pentecostal Church Incorporated. Another organization, the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World (PAW) became a largely Black Pentecostal Jesus Name body.

Two prominent oneness organizations emerged: the Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ (PAJC) and the Pentecostal Church Incorporated (PCI). They finally merged together in 1945 at St Louis to form the United Pentecostal Church.

God bless :)
 
Rose

That was nice well written peice, too bad it is not true.

Dear you know I have heard it al read it all, nothing new there, and I would not trust anythin written by a modolist.

You see they give Mis information not information, they teach the trinity was added and early modolest were the true christian whom the evil catholics were mean to.

Heres the thing, the history the UPCI gives out is no more then fantasy and twisted history, just the same as their theology.

Instead of gettin history according to the facts they make history fit o their liking.

The truth is that the early church right back to Jesus himself taught the concept of the trinity, it was not called by that word, untill heretics preaching modolism needed to be delt with, then the terms were used to clerify what has already been tught for a few hundred years.

The truth is that the word trinity came as result of the modolistic heresy, and it was modolist who were attempting to change the official view, but you would have to look honestly at historty to see this.

I mean if you just read the bible you can see clearly that Jesus refered to the Father as another person, the modolist say no he was talking to his divine nature, howver that is added and never found in the bible.

Dear I know you mean well but you are being mis informed, and they may not realize it either, the modolist I know think they have the "truth" but think about it, what God would be so weak that the "truth" he handed to us could be corrupted by men so badly that it took a few thousand years for some guy to figure it out?

And they did not leave the assembly they were extadited for refusing to stop preaching heresy.

Anyways, in love dear not malice, I am not against the peopl only the teachings, and agian I challenge you to stop listening to anyone, forget all that you have been told, and take that time to study the bible, God gave you his word for YOU to read, he says to YOU study and show yourself approved.

So what do you think, I am asking you study the bible that certainly can't be unreasonble.
 
Not true?

Henry said:
Rose

That was nice well written peice, too bad it is not true.

Dear you know I have heard it al read it all, nothing new there, and I would not trust anythin written by a modolist.

You see they give Mis information not information, they teach the trinity was added and early modolest were the true christian whom the evil catholics were mean to.

Heres the thing, the history the UPCI gives out is no more then fantasy and twisted history, just the same as their theology.

Instead of gettin history according to the facts they make history fit o their liking.

The truth is that the early church right back to Jesus himself taught the concept of the trinity, it was not called by that word, untill heretics preaching modolism needed to be delt with, then the terms were used to clerify what has already been tught for a few hundred years.

The truth is that the word trinity came as result of the modolistic heresy, and it was modolist who were attempting to change the official view, but you would have to look honestly at historty to see this.

I mean if you just read the bible you can see clearly that Jesus refered to the Father as another person, the modolist say no he was talking to his divine nature, howver that is added and never found in the bible.

Dear I know you mean well but you are being mis informed, and they may not realize it either, the modolist I know think they have the "truth" but think about it, what God would be so weak that the "truth" he handed to us could be corrupted by men so badly that it took a few thousand years for some guy to figure it out?

And they did not leave the assembly they were extadited for refusing to stop preaching heresy.

Anyways, in love dear not malice, I am not against the peopl only the teachings, and agian I challenge you to stop listening to anyone, forget all that you have been told, and take that time to study the bible, God gave you his word for YOU to read, he says to YOU study and show yourself approved.

So what do you think, I am asking you study the bible that certainly can't be unreasonble.


:B-fly:

Henry, I would like to know HOW you know it's not true?
Explain please. Who told you? Gillispie? Your Pastor? Where is your proof?
Your church is a take off of every denomination, without a single thing to call it's own.
I'm really not trying to be insulting , but you are insulting everytime you tell me I 'am lost and the truth is not what we're teaching. The bible is what we are teaching. How can that NOT be truth.
You are not teaching the bible. Your web site has more worldly things on it then biblical.
This Bernie Gillispie has taken the truth and twisted it to conform to HIS thinking and ways, not God. And you fell for it hook, line and sinker.
I realize you do not sit under Gillispie, but you beleive the same.
Please provide the proof of your statement?

God bless.
 
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