Bible Study Sheep who become lost.

[Cygnus]

It’s a description of damnation or not.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Condemnation refers to the resurrection of damnation or condemnation.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

JLB

Why do you keep taking that verse out of context? Romans 8 is pretty informative...verse 9 tells us" 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you."

So, if the Spirit of God is in you..you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit...and therfor NOT walking in the flesh.
The scripture is about "4.....requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us".

Here's the problem with your interpretation..every single christian walks in the flesh according to your view every time they sin. If that be the case, no one is saved.

 

[JLB]

Judas was never saved to begin with.

I don't even think Thomas was saved until Jesus appeared to him.

Did Judas hear His Voice and follow Him as a disciple?

Did God the Father give Judas to Jesus?

Did Judas end up becoming lost?



JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Ive seen no such verse.

Do you understand that the Judgement seat of Christ on the Day of Judgement is the “bema”.

Bema is the Greek word for Judgement Seat.


Matthew 25:31 is Jesus on the Day of Judgement, judging each one of us according to there deeds.


34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35

The deeds -

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’


JLB

Once again, those at the Bema seat..are saved.
1st Cor 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.

 

[JLB]

Why do you keep taking that verse out of context? Romans 8 is pretty informative...verse 9 tells us" 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you."

Look at what Romans 8:1 and the context says -

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


Did Paul write these words to unbelievers or believers?

For if you live according to the flesh you will die;



JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Did Judas hear His Voice and follow Him as a disciple?

Did God the Father give Judas to Jesus?

Did Judas end up becoming lost?



JLB

Being a disciple doesn't save you.

In John 17:12, Jesus prays concerning His disciples, “While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.” At one time, though, Judas believed that Jesus was a prophet, or possibly even believed He was the Messiah. Jesus sent the disciples out to proclaim the gospel and perform miracles (Luke 9:1-6). Judas was included in this group. Judas had faith, but it was not a true saving faith. Judas was never “saved,” but for a time he was a follower of Christ. rest of article.

 

[Cygnus]

Look at what Romans 8:1 and the context says -

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


Did Paul write these words to unbelievers or believers?

For if you live according to the flesh you will die;



JLB

According to the Spirit = saved.
According to the flesh = not saved.

People walk according to the flesh..then when they are saved according to the Spirit. Once one is saved they can't walk according to the flesh.

Once again...Here's the problem with your interpretation..every single christian walks in the flesh according to your view every time they sin. If that be the case, no one is saved.

 

[JLB]

Once again, those at the Bema seat..are saved.
1st Cor 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one being snatched from the fire.

A. Verse 15 is about the worker. Not about the person they are building.

B. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:15-17

No scripture here about the Bema Seat.

Please post a scripture about the Judgement Seat of Christ on the Day of Judgement.

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

 

[JLB]

Being a disciple doesn't save you.

In John 17:12, Jesus prays concerning His disciples, “While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.” At one time, though, Judas believed that Jesus was a prophet, or possibly even believed He was the Messiah. Jesus sent the disciples out to proclaim the gospel and perform miracles (Luke 9:1-6). Judas was included in this group. Judas had faith, but it was not a true saving faith. Judas was never “saved,” but for a time he was a follower of Christ. rest of article.

Please explain what more a person has to do than -

Hear His Voice
Follow Him as a disciple
Be known personally by the Lord Jesus
Be promoted to Apostle
Be sent out personally by Jesus to preach the Gospel to the lost
Cast out devils
Heal the sick
Raise the dead
Cleanse the lepers

To be considered a believer?


JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

Judas was never saved to begin with.

I don't even think Thomas was saved until Jesus appeared to him.

You are certainly right and Jesus knew it, the whole time. Judas, sad to say, is representative of most of all denominations bulk today. If Jesus would rapture the Real Church out today, tomorrow morning, folks in any Church would not notice except they witnessed the Rapture or at least saw Jesus standing on a cloud.

 

[Cygnus]

A. Verse 15 is about the worker. Not about the person they are building.

B. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:15-17

No scripture here about the Bema Seat.

Please post a scripture about the Judgement Seat of Christ on the Day of Judgement.

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

It's about a man living out his faith and the work they perform or not perform....and how the work will be judged.

 

[Cygnus]

Please explain what more a person has to do than -

Hear His Voice
Follow Him as a disciple
Be known personally by the Lord Jesus
Be promoted to Apostle
Be sent out personally by Jesus to preach the Gospel to the lost
Cast out devils
Heal the sick
Raise the dead
Cleanse the lepers

To be considered a believer?


JLB

Be of the elect.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Can you see the context is about His twelve disciples that heard His call to follow His as disciples.

Can you see that Judas became lost after following Him for over 3 years, then became a traitor.

Very simple.

I and the Father Are One
Joh 10:22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter,
Joh 10:23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon.
Joh 10:24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
Joh 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
It can also be taken as applying to any who believe in Him.....which is how I see it. We are all His sheep and He is our shepherd.

 

[JLB]

Why do you keep taking that verse out of context? Romans 8 is pretty informative...verse 9 tells us" 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you."

Dude.

The context of Romans 8 is about Christians who either walk according to the flesh or walk according to the Spirit.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Here are the two choices for those who are in Christ Jesus to live:

• according to the flesh
• according to the Spirit.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

• Paul is exhorting brethren, those who are in Christ Jesus, not to live according to the flesh.

Here’s why -

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13

Which is why a brother in Christ, someone who is in Christ Jesus, can indeed become lost.

Paul explains what the works of the flesh are to us, so you want be confused.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul writing to the Church in Galatia, teaches these brothers in Christ Jesus the remedy for practicing the works of the flesh.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


Again

8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:8


Paul says it this way to the Ephesians


But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

• Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Paul plainly warns these in the Church in Ephesus, who are in Christ Jesus, not to be partakers of the wrath of God, alone with the unbelievers, by living the way they do, according to the flesh, obeying it’s unrighteous desires.


But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8


The Day of Judgement -

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

The same wrath he warned of, we could indeed be partakers of in Ephesians, along with the sons of disobedience, if we walk according to the flesh, and practice the works of the flesh.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I and the Father Are One
Joh 10:22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter,
Joh 10:23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon.
Joh 10:24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
Joh 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
It can also be taken as applying to any who believe in Him.....which is how I see it. We are all His sheep and He is our shepherd.

If a sheep decides the grass is greener in another valley and wanders off from the Shepherd, does that mean the someone snatched him away ?


JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Dude.

The context of Romans 8 is about Christians who either walk according to the flesh or walk according to the Spirit.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Here are the two choices for those who are in Christ Jesus to live:

• according to the flesh
• according to the Spirit.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

• Paul is exhorting brethren, those who are in Christ Jesus, not to live according to the flesh.

Here’s why -

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13

Which is why a brother in Christ, someone who is in Christ Jesus, can indeed become lost.

Paul explains what the works of the flesh are to us, so you want be confused.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul writing to the Church in Galatia, teaches these brothers in Christ Jesus the remedy for practicing the works of the flesh.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


Again

8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:8


Paul says it this way to the Ephesians


But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

• Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Paul plainly warns these in the Church in Ephesus, who are in Christ Jesus, not to be partakers of the wrath of God, alone with the unbelievers, by living the way they do, according to the flesh, obeying it’s unrighteous desires.


But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8


The Day of Judgement -

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

The same wrath he warned of, we could indeed be partakers of in Ephesians, along with the sons of disobedience, if we walk according to the flesh, and practice the works of the flesh.


JLB

Then I suggest you get busy walking in the spirit.

 

[Cygnus]

If a sheep decides the grass is greener in another valley and wanders off from the Shepherd, does that mean the someone snatched him away ?


JLB

That which planted the deception of the green grass idea...did the snatching.

 

[JLB]

The born again Christian can indeed become lost.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-21

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

Sheep who become lost is a foundational biblical principle.

Sheep who become lost are as a sinner inneed of repentance.

Those who repent and then later, are unfaithful and return to serving sin and obeying unrighteousness, have wandered [like a sheep who has become lost], from the truth and is likened to a sinner.

• Brethren; James is writing to the Church and addressing brethren.
• if anyone among you wanders from the truth; again anyone among you refers to Christian brothers.
  
• wanders from the truth; Jesus Christ is the truth. The Gospel of the kingdom.
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.


Jesus taught the same thing:

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.

Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.


I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7


Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:10


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:32




JLB

 

[civilwarbuff]

If a sheep decides the grass is greener in another valley and wanders off from the Shepherd, does that mean the someone snatched him away ?


JLB

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Then they did not belong to The Shepherd.......

 

[JLB]

According to the Spirit = saved.
According to the flesh = not saved.

People walk according to the flesh..then when they are saved according to the Spirit. Once one is saved they can't walk according to the flesh.

Once again...Here's the problem with your interpretation..every single christian walks in the flesh according to your view every time they sin. If that be the case, no one is saved.

No sir.

People who are in Christ Jesus have the ability and choice to walk according to the Spirit, or to walk according to the flesh.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

• those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh

Again, Paul is addressing those in Christ Jesus and telling them there are to avoid practicing the works of the flesh, and the way to do that is to walk in the Spirit.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 5:16-17

The only way for a born again Christian to avoid walking according the the flesh, whereby they practice the works of the flesh, is by walking according to the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit empowers us to live in victory, to have dominion over the sinful desires of our flesh.

Here Paul, still addressing born again Christians, who are in Christ Jesus, what the works of the flesh are.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

Paul plainly warns the Church at Galatia, the way to avoid practicing the works of the flesh is to walk in the Spirit.

Do you think Paul is tell unsaved people to walk in the Spirit?

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Then they did not belong to The Shepherd.......

So it’s your position that it’s impossible for any of His sheep to become lost?

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

Again

21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’... 31 “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. 32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”
Luke 15:21,31-32

• for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’

Jesus said those who wander away and become lost are as sinners in need of repentance, just as an unbeliever needs to repent or remain lost.


JLB