What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Should every Christian be a Pacifist?

Mike S said:
My wife and daughter are Quakers and pacifists. My in-laws were also pacifists, even during World War II when being such wasn't easy. I admire all of them more than I express. I'm not a pacifist, though I'm not a man of violence either.

Having said this, I think the New Testament, taken as a unified message, makes pacifism an easier position for Christians to adopt and defend than any variation of just war theory. We all have to do what we feel is right, and God's will, in this world, and if my family is threatened, I will defend them with every means I have available. I think we're called to shun violence, but also to stand between evil and the innocent.
Click to expand...

Your statement " I think we're called to shun violence, but also to stand between evil and the innocent."

This is how I see it, as well.
 
Jamsie said:
We should be thankful that pacifism wasn't a majority view in WWII. I see no scripture relevant to one not defending oneself when someone intends bodily harm or worse. I wonder how many police and/or soldiers would need to leave their service if this was a dogmatic view.
Click to expand...

Why?
 
Here's a quote from Clement of Alexandria from around 195 AD.

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 2 Clement of Alexandria

Above all, Christians are not allowed to correct with violence the delinquencies of sins. For it is not those that abstain from wickedness from compulsion, but those that abstain from choice, that God crowns.

I think he makes a good point about abstaining by choice.
 
Here's a quote from Tertullian 197AD.

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 3 Tertullian 197 AD.

If we are enjoined, then, to love our enemies, as I have remarked above, whom have we to hate? If injured, we are forbidden to retaliate, lest we become as bad ourselves: who can suffer injury at our hands?
 
Butch5 said:
I know we all love and want to defend our families, but what about what Jesus taught?
Click to expand...

Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

If a gang member asked you to give them $500, what would you do?
If a thief were to take your vehicle, what would you do?
 
Colossians 3:15;

"Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts".

Are you at peace inside your heart, or will you be bent on revenge if the occasion arises?
 
jasonc said:
since the bible doesn't cleary say that slavery is a sin, and it doesn't but we all would agree that God didn't intend man to own another , he regulated that evil in the torah. likewise, with war, it a sad thing and I do believe that god obviously didn't intend for man to kill another, however in the torah there are rules, in the nt or brit chadosh for you jewish believers, it more of what rome was doing to insult jews and that law for all that must carry the soldiers load then a pacifist command. to take that as such then jesus tempted peter to sin. he clearly wouldn't have done that.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you mentioned Peter. I have a question about Peter carrying a sword or dagger of some sort. Jason, did all the disciples carry a weapon of some sort? I've always been curious about, at least, Peter carrying.
 
Deborah13 said:
Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

If a gang member asked you to give them $500, what would you do?
If a thief were to take your vehicle, what would you do?
Click to expand...

Hi Deb,

I hesitate to answer because this type of discussion seems to be the direction this topic always goes. Rather than saying what I would do I think it is more important that we see what he Scriptures would have us do.
 
Jamsie said:
Butch5 - Why?

Why Not?
Click to expand...

Well, if pacifism was the predominate view during WWII I guess we would have had to rely on God for our protection. Pacifism was the predominate view in the church for the first 300 years of its existence.
 
Butch5 - Well, if pacifism was the predominate view during WWII I guess we would have had to rely on God for our protection. Pacifism was the predominate view in the church for the first 300 years of its existence.

Reminds me of that old joke. The police come to the pastor/priest's home and inform him that the river is rising and the dam may not hold, the priest responds "I trust in God to rescue me". The river rises and the priest must head to the second floor as the water has overtaken the first. Rescuers in a boat offer to take him to higher ground but again "I trust in God to rescue me ". Finally he is on the roof and a helicopter comes by to help but once more "I trust in God to rescue me" him. Finally the water rises more and the pastor/priest drowns..he stands before God and exclaims that he put his trust in him yet he drowned. God responds " But I sent the police, then a boat, and then a helicopter?" It would seem to me that extreme pacifism borders on "fatalism".

The further questions would be, shouldn't we as Christian Americans fully support complete reduction in the military? Shouldn't we support eliminating police departments? Is a Christan in the military or police wrong?
Finally I do believe in the"Just Peace and War Theory" as I believe Psalm 139:13-14 applies to all as God given human dignity.

"To defend the dignity of human life is both the motive force of peace and the just cause of war. When an unjust aggressor injures human dignity, to stand aside is a form of complicity and collusion. To resist an unjust aggressor with proportionate means is demanded by justice. Thus, human dignity is the cause both of just peace and of just war".
 
I honestly don't think I could remain pacifist if my family's life was threatened but I have thought about this a time or two and considering Christ's example I wonder what is the right thing. Jesus did nothing wrong yet when the people ridiculed him, spit on him, slapped him, punched him, beat him, whipped him, scourged him, mocked him, tortured him, and then killed him by crucifixion he did not fight back.

What does that say to us?
 
WIP -Jesus did nothing wrong yet when the people ridiculed him, spit on him, slapped him, punched him, beat him, whipped him, scourged him, mocked him, tortured him, and then killed him by crucifixion he did not fight back. What does that say to us?

That Jesus had a distinct purpose to suffer and die ...for us. Again, I see no verses in the NT that Christians are not to physically defend themselves, are not to become soldiers or police, or are not to intervene when someone's physical health is being threatened.
 
Chopper said:
I'm glad you mentioned Peter. I have a question about Peter carrying a sword or dagger of some sort. Jason, did all the disciples carry a weapon of some sort? I've always been curious about, at least, Peter carrying.
Click to expand...
I dont know but remember its not that they all went to the same places after pentacost to preach and reach. some went to Syria and others stayed in palenstine and one rome. idk.
 
Jamsie said:
WIP -Jesus did nothing wrong yet when the people ridiculed him, spit on him, slapped him, punched him, beat him, whipped him, scourged him, mocked him, tortured him, and then killed him by crucifixion he did not fight back. What does that say to us?

That Jesus had a distinct purpose to suffer and die ...for us. Again, I see no verses in the NT that Christians are not to physically defend themselves, are not to become soldiers or police, or are not to intervene when someone's physical health is being threatened.
Click to expand...

How about "love your enemies"?
 
Jamsie said:
Butch5 - Well, if pacifism was the predominate view during WWII I guess we would have had to rely on God for our protection. Pacifism was the predominate view in the church for the first 300 years of its existence.

Reminds me of that old joke. The police come to the pastor/priest's home and inform him that the river is rising and the dam may not hold, the priest responds "I trust in God to rescue me". The river rises and the priest must head to the second floor as the water has overtaken the first. Rescuers in a boat offer to take him to higher ground but again "I trust in God to rescue me ". Finally he is on the roof and a helicopter comes by to help but once more "I trust in God to rescue me" him. Finally the water rises more and the pastor/priest drowns..he stands before God and exclaims that he put his trust in him yet he drowned. God responds " But I sent the police, then a boat, and then a helicopter?" It would seem to me that extreme pacifism borders on "fatalism".

The further questions would be, shouldn't we as Christian Americans fully support complete reduction in the military? Shouldn't we support eliminating police departments? Is a Christan in the military or police wrong?
Finally I do believe in the"Just Peace and War Theory" as I believe Psalm 139:13-14 applies to all as God given human dignity.

"To defend the dignity of human life is both the motive force of peace and the just cause of war. When an unjust aggressor injures human dignity, to stand aside is a form of complicity and collusion. To resist an unjust aggressor with proportionate means is demanded by justice. Thus, human dignity is the cause both of just peace and of just war".
Click to expand...

Christian American? Aren't we one or the other?

You spoke of an unjust aggressor, how do you know that aggressor isn't exacting God's justice on a nation? In opposing that aggressor you'd be opposing God. Besides, God is the one who exacts justice not Christians. In opposing someone you're already judged them and Paul said the it is God who judges those who are outside of the church.

You spoke of the "Just" war theory. I believe the "Just" war is nothing more than a fantasy that Augustine concocted. Who determines what a just war is, corrupted humans? What makes a war just?
 
Seems most agree we are called to be a pacifists, yet would defend our homes.
Just wondering how Ecclesiastes 3 fits in:

For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven:
2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.
 
what if giving money to the thief meant that your spouse would die as that money is needed for insulin? type diabetics will die or be seriously harmed if they dont take their meds. eye sight and limbs may be lost. seen that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top