Should every Christian be a Pacifist?

[Deborah13]

Hi Deb,

I hesitate to answer because this type of discussion seems to be the direction this topic always goes. Rather than saying what I would do I think it is more important that we see what he Scriptures would have us do.

This is true.

I asked because these scriptures are what follow so would He have us do them and if so how. What would be envisioned in these scriptures?
So the examples were more rhetorical, than anything.

 

[Deborah13]

How about "love your enemies"?

Is it loving your enemies to allow them to do something they shouldn't be doing, in God's eyes?

And if I am not allowed to protect my family then I cannot call the police to protect them either. I would be just having them do the sinful deed. Causing them to stumble and sin.

 

[Jamsie]

Butch5 - Christian American? Aren't we one or the other?

No, actually a reasonable description of a person would involve a considerable amount of info. I referenced "American" simply because we spend so much more than other countries on defense.

You spoke of an unjust aggressor, how do you know that aggressor isn't exacting God's justice on a nation? In opposing that aggressor you'd be opposing God. Besides, God is the one who exacts justice not Christians.

Careful, you are crossing the line into fatalism. So we should not involve or take action as whatever happens is just God's will. How far should we take this...not work God will provide, not vote He put the person in office, etc. Hitler was simply God's implement of judgement. Yes, extreme thoughts but that seems to be where it logically leads.

You spoke of the "Just" war theory. I believe the "Just" war is nothing more than a fantasy that Augustine concocted. Who determines what a just war is, corrupted humans? What makes a war just?

Well, I would confess that we , in the USA, have certainly lost our way as to "just" in terms of war...would you say that WWII was an unjust war? Would you say that Christians being murdered around the world is OK because it's God's will, so it shouldn't trouble us? Are you suggesting that "corrupted humans" can not act in a just way? If so maybe along with the police and soldiers we should eliminate the court system. Would you suggest that if you saw someone brutally murdered you wouldn't get involved because, well, it is God's permissive will? Can you say that the Just Peace and War theory conceptually doesn't have merit?

 

[Butch5]

Is it loving your enemies to allow them to do something they shouldn't be doing, in God's eyes?

Using force against someone isn't showing love.

And if I am not allowed to protect my family then I cannot call the police to protect them either. I would be just having them do the sinful deed. Causing them to stumble and sin.

This scenario is raised quite often and I would agree with you, however, the apostle Paul allows for this when he says that the powers that be are God servants to administer wrath.

KJV Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. (Rom 13:1-4 KJV)

 

[Butch5]

This is true.

I asked because these scriptures are what follow so would He have us do them and if so how. What would be envisioned in these scriptures?
So the examples were more rhetorical, than anything.

Which Scriptures are you referring to?

 

[jasonc]

so we call the cops whom use force and then say well I didn't do that " I showed love" the cop being a sinner has to be his line of work sin.

that is tantamount to saying what I say we ought not tempt ,man to sin.

 

[Butch5]

No, actually a reasonable description of a person would involve a considerable amount of info. I referenced "American" simply because we spend so much more than other countries on defense.

What does the amount of money America spends on defense have to do with Christians?

Careful, you are crossing the line into fatalism. So we should not involve or take action as whatever happens is just God's will. How far should we take this...not work God will provide, not vote He put the person in office, etc. Hitler was simply God's implement of judgement. Yes, extreme thoughts but that seems to be where it logically leads.

Not at all. Paul tells us not to avenge ourselves that that is God's place. Therefore we leave it up to Him, on the other hand we are specifically admonished to work. Regarding voting, no, I don't vote. My citizenship is in the kingdom of God, not America. If vote for someone and that person does things contrary to the word of God how can I claim innocence. For instance, suppose I vote for a candidate for president and he wins, then later after taking office he legalizes euthanasia. How can I stand before God and say my hands are clean? I can't, I voted for him to take the office.

Well, I would confess that we , in the USA, have certainly lost our way as to "just" in terms of war...would you say that WWII was an unjust war?

As I said, I don't think there is one. I would ask on what basis was it just? I would also ask if it was deemed just are Christians to disobey God's commands to rectify it?

Would you say that Christians being murdered around the world is OK because it's God's will, so it shouldn't trouble us?

Not at all, but committing murder because murder is committed isn't alright either.

Are you suggesting that "corrupted humans" can not act in a just way?
If so maybe along with the police and soldiers we should eliminate the court system.

No, I'm not.

Would you suggest that if you saw someone brutally murdered you wouldn't get involved because, well, it is God's permissive will?

It depends on what "get involved" means.

Can you say that the Just Peace and War theory conceptually doesn't have merit?

I don't believe it does. As I said, it's Augustine's theory. Originally he was against war then later came up with this just war theory. It's not Scriptural it was convenient.

 

[Gary]

My Son in law, is a pacifist. My Son is not. Considering the Old Testament and the New Testament. What should the Christian of today do in regard to a "home evasion".

Speaking for myself, I would never raise my hand in aggression towards an innocent person. However, I contend that someone who is intent on doing bodily harm to another person is not innocent.

I don't believe it's a sin to defend oneself or others.

 

[Jamsie]

Butch5 -What does the amount of money America spends on defense have to do with Christians?

If Christians are absolutely opposed to war wouldn't it logically follow that Christians should oppose military spending? Since you don't participate in the "system" you are still somewhat complicit in the actions of our military, and also in local police using force against criminals.

Not at all. Paul tells us not to avenge ourselves that that is God's place.

Well, you believe Romans/Hebrews implies physical defense and I would suggest "wrongs" not of a physical nature.

My citizenship is in the kingdom of God, not America.

Actually, it is both if you live in America. "Render unto Caesar...." how does that imply in any way that such citizenship is wrong? Didn't Paul claim himself to be a Roman citizen in his own defense? So was Paul wrong to do so? How is your non-participation just as much wrong by omission?

For instance, suppose I vote for a candidate for president and he wins, then later after taking office he legalizes euthanasia. How can I stand before God and say my hands are clean? I can't, I voted for him to take the office.

So again, with an extreme example, you would not raise your voice against a Hitler, so that by your own logic you confess that by your inaction you are complicit. It works both ways. - So you are on the Pastor search committee, you and the other committee members decide on a particular pastor. At some point you are made aware that the pastor has misused his "office" as pastor with several female members of the church...are you suggesting that you are responsible for the pastor's actions?

I would ask on what basis was it just? I would also ask if it was deemed just are Christians to disobey God's commands to rectify it?

Well, from my perspective 50 -60 million lives is quite significant. I believe few would deny that had the US not entered the war against Germany we would presently be living in a considerably different world. Perhaps you consider the aggression of the Nazi's as inconsequential some of us don't...to oppose was "JUST". As to God's commands against "Just" war so far no one has posted the scripture to support that view. What are the limits you place on John 15:11 ...who are our friends? - who are our neighbors? Are we our brothers keepers?

Not at all, but committing murder because murder is committed isn't alright either.

In a court of law is self defense considered murder?

No, I'm not.

Why not?

It depends on what "get involved" means.

But if you contend that the murder is God's will wouldn't any involvement be opposing His sovereign will?

I don't believe it does. As I said, it's Augustine's theory. Originally he was against war then later came up with this just war theory. It's not Scriptural it was convenient.

So perhaps "justice" must be completely left in God's hands and we "corrupt" humans should have absolutely no involvement, correct? A theory from St. Augustine would most assuredly have a scriptural basis. It is simply whether one believes that "justice" can exist on a human level...I personally believe that God endowed us with "Reason". (Certainly it can be distorted, even scripture can be distorted)

Luke 3:14 why weren't the soldiers directed to lay down their arms/swords?
Luke 14:31-32 Where does Christ condemn war?
Where in Acts 10 was the Centurion, Cornelius, commanded to lay down his arms/sword?
As above, how do you interpret John 15:11?

 

[Butch5]

If Christians are absolutely opposed to war wouldn't it logically follow that Christians should oppose military spending? Since you don't participate in the "system" you are still somewhat complicit in the actions of our military, and also in local police using force against criminals.

I think you’re missing my point. I’m not opposing war, I’m saying it’s not the Christians place. What America does with its money is not my concern because I became a citizen of the kingdom

Well, you believe Romans/Hebrews implies physical defense and I would suggest "wrongs" not of a physical nature.

You’re suggesting that Paul is saying one can be killed for thoughts?

Actually, it is both if you live in America. "Render unto Caesar...." how does that imply in any way that such citizenship is wrong? Didn't Paul claim himself to be a Roman citizen in his own defense? So was Paul wrong to do so? How is your non-participation just as much wrong by omission?

I live in America that doesn’t necessitate that I take part in what the government does or doesn’t do. Just because Paul claimed he was a Roman citizen when jailed doesn’t mean he was involved in what the Roman government did, we know he wasn’t. As far as non-participation in government we have Jesus and the apostles as our example.

So again, with an extreme example, you would not raise your voice against a Hitler, so that by your own logic you confess that by your inaction you are complicit. It works both ways. - So you are on the Pastor search committee, you and the other committee members decide on a particular pastor. At some point you are made aware that the pastor has misused his "office" as pastor with several female members of the church...are you suggesting that you are responsible for the pastor's actions?

It doesn’t work both ways because we are told by Scripture to be separate from the world, it’s not just some idea that I came up with. Regarding the pastor, no I’m not responsible for his actions but I do have some accountability in that I was one of those who chose him.

Well, from my perspective 50 -60 million lives is quite significant. I believe few would deny that had the US not entered the war against Germany we would presently be living in a considerably different world. Perhaps you consider the aggression of the Nazi's as inconsequential some of us don't...to oppose was "JUST". As to God's commands against "Just" war so far no one has posted the scripture to support that view. What are the limits you place on John 15:11 ...who are our friends? - who are our neighbors? Are we our brothers keepers?

OK, so you’re the one who decides what’s just? You seem to think that if the US hadn’t entered the ware Germany would have won, that may be correct, however, don’t you think God was able to stop Hitler? Do you think that God needed help to stop Hitler? Does God require the help of men to bring about His plans?


[quoteIn a court of law is self defense considered murder?[/quote]

It doesn’t matter, If God said don’t do it, it doesn’t matter what men say.

Why not?

Just because I said humans can decide what makes a war just doesn’t mean they can’t do anything just.

But if you contend that the murder is God's will wouldn't any involvement be opposing His sovereign will?

I don’t contend that it is God’s will.

So perhaps "justice" must be completely left in God's hands and we "corrupt" humans should have absolutely no involvement, correct? A theory from St. Augustine would most assuredly have a scriptural basis. It is simply whether one believes that "justice" can exist on a human level...I personally believe that God endowed us with "Reason". (Certainly it can be distorted, even scripture can be distorted)

No, that’s not what I said. I said Christians should have no involvement. I’ve already stated that God sometimes uses men to exact justice, that what Romans 13 is stating.


Regarding the Scripture passages prohibiting the use of violence there are the words of Jesus “Love your enemies.” We could also look to Paul,

17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. (Rom 12:17-19 KJV)

Luke 3:14 why weren't the soldiers directed to lay down their arms/swords?

We don’t know that they weren’t told to, we only know what Luke chose to record which I’m sure is not every word that was spoken. However, this happened before Jesus began His public ministry.

Luke 14:31-32 Where does Christ condemn war?

It’s a statement about things that happen not a teaching on the use of violence.

Where in Acts 10 was the Centurion, Cornelius, commanded to lay down his arms/sword?

These arguments are fallacious. The use of these three passages is based in an argument from silence. By it’s very nature an argument from silence is not provable therefore they cannot be used to make a case for the use of violence. It’s like saying the apostles never went to the bathroom and saying where does it say they did in Scripture?

As above, how do you interpret John 15:11?

Are you sure this is the passage you meant to quote?

 

[Deborah13]

Which Scriptures are you referring to?

Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

 

[Jamsie]

Are you sure this is the passage you meant to quote?

My mistake John 15:13..........

I think you’re missing my point. I’m not opposing war, I’m saying it’s not the Christians place.

So war is “justified” in some instances but never for Christians?

What America does with its money is not my concern because I became a citizen of the kingdom

But your tax dollars do support war...and other issues that a Christian may oppose...is not inaction complicity?

You’re suggesting that Paul is saying one can be killed for thoughts?

No, I am suggesting that the verses that call for restraint, non-aggression, love of enemies, and such are referring to insults, mockery, and persecution of Faith not of physical attack.

I live in America that doesn’t necessitate that I take part in what the government does or doesn’t do.

Yet Christ paid his taxes, if not to condone then clearly as a legitimate claim. We are offered in the US to raise our voices, it is our “right”, why shouldn’t Christians, as individuals, do so?

As far as non-participation in government we have Jesus and the apostles as our example.

How the do you interpret Roman 13:1-7 (Jesus did state “Give to Caesar that which is Caesar’s)

It doesn’t work both ways because we are told by Scripture to be separate from the world, it’s not just some idea that I came up with.


See comment above...does “separate from the world” render “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations...” a contradiction? Or does “separate from the world” refer to conduct, behavior, moral principles, etc.

OK, so you’re the one who decides what’s just? You seem to think that if the US hadn’t entered the ware Germany would have won, that may be correct, however, don’t you think God was able to stop Hitler? Do you think that God needed help to stop Hitler? Does God require the help of men to bring about His plans?

I believe you will find that throughout the Biblical narrative God used people to accomplish His goals/will. I would venture that Esther 4:14 applies as much today as it did 2300 years ago. Ephesians 2:10 “...works....God prepared in advance for us to do”. Did God need help, No...but obviously scripture clearly points that God chooses to work through his servants.

It doesn’t matter, If God said don’t do it, it doesn’t matter what men say.


Again, I am awaiting verses that command us not to defend ourselves from physical attack and injury? I certainly see sufficient verses regarding, as noted above, restraint, non-aggression, love of enemies, and such as referring to insults, mockery, persecution of Faith, etc.

Just because I said humans can decide what makes a war just doesn’t mean they can’t do anything just.

Did you mean “can’t” decide what makes a war just? If so and yet you admit that it doesn’t mean “they can’t do anything just” therefore humans have the capability to do some things that are “just”. It would then appear quite probable that some wars are “just”.

I don’t contend that it is God’s will.

In one sense it is God’s “permissive” will, but in a larger sense it should be abhorrent to Christians and non-christians. Should a government have the authority to impose the death penalty?

No, that’s not what I said. I said Christians should have no involvement. I’ve already stated that God sometimes uses men to exact justice, that what Romans 13 is stating.

So should Christians refuse jury duty, leave that to non-Christians? If God “sometimes uses men” to exact justice does that include Christians, or again only non-christians? If not why not?

Regarding the Scripture passages prohibiting the use of violence there are the words of Jesus “Love your enemies.” We could also look to Paul, 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil.

As noted you are asserting these verses to mean violence in general and I am asserting these verses to mean offenses other than violence.

These arguments are fallacious. The use of these three passages is based in an argument from silence.

I agree, just as arguments that one has no right to defend themselves, or family, or friends, or others from physical violence...is an argument from silence. As an aside concerning Luke 3:14...are you stating that such a passage is to be dismissed because Jesus hadn’t begun his ministry?
As noted they are an argument from silence however it would have been an ideal time in each instance to establish a command against all violence, which they do not.

I believe what is foundational is whether there is such a thing as “human dignity” or value. I would think that scripture answers that question quite clearly. That we as Christians are called to endure the taunts, mistreatment, mockery, lies, etc. by the enemies of the Gospel does not extrapolate to not be committed to defending the value of human life.

 

[for_his_glory]

I know what my husband would do if someone tried to harm us in a way that would lead to death, but for me I would rebuke them in the name of Jesus as it's worked for me in the past and am sure will always work, especially when you surprise them and yell it in their face. Remember in the name of Jesus Satan has to flee.

 

[Deborah13]

I know what my husband would do if someone tried to harm us in a way that would lead to death, but for me I would rebuke them in the name of Jesus as it's worked for me in the past and am sure will always work, especially when you surprise them and yell it in their face. Remember in the name of Jesus Satan has to flee.

Well, I would agree with you usually when it is satan. But it's not always satan, it's just ugly people.
And they can laugh in your face and keep right on gone.

 

[Butch5]

My mistake John 15:13..........

I’m not sure how this helps. Laying down one’s life for a friend needn’t include the use of violence. Jesus gave us an example of what He meant.

So war is “justified” in some instances but never for Christians?

Whether a war is justified or not is God’s decision not mans. You seemed to indicate that you believed WW2 was just war. Do you know all of the facts that lead to that war? If not how are you in a position to make that judgment?

Let me ask you this, there were Christians from America and Britain that fought in that war. There were also Christians from Germany who fought in that war. Was it just for Christians to kill Christians? Christians who say they’re part of the kingdom of God dying for the kingdoms of darkness, do you think God sees that as just?

But your tax dollars do support war...and other issues that a Christian may oppose...is not inaction complicity?

That’s not relevant since Jesus told His followers to pay their taxes. Jesus knew where the money was going when they gave and His still told them to pay their taxes.

No, I am suggesting that the verses that call for restraint, non-aggression, love of enemies, and such are referring to insults, mockery, and persecution of Faith not of physical attack.

Based on?

Yet Christ paid his taxes, if not to condone then clearly as a legitimate claim. We are offered in the US to raise our voices, it is our “right”, why shouldn’t Christians, as individuals, do so?

Wow, the list I could write. For starters how about the absolute disdain for Christianity that it has caused in this country. Many people in this country hate Christians because they are always trying to force their beliefs on unbelievers. Why would a Christian think that an unbeliever would want to live according to Christian values? It makes you wonder if they ever read the Bible. The Bible speaks repeatedly about how evil man is and yet Christians want to force them through laws to live according to the way Christians think they should live. Then the Christian gets all bent out of shape when the unbelievers get up in their face. I’d venture to say that the abortion issue and the gay rights issue wouldn’t be nearly as big an issue if Christians we’re trying to force unbelievers to live according to their values. This may sound amazing but America is not the Kingdom of God.

The first Christians were in a hostile environment and the won converts in droves with love. America claims to be mostly Christian and yet doesn’t seem to know much about love but would rather force their views on people. If Christians would get out of government and just do the work of God they would win many more people to Christ. However, as it is they drive more away.

How the do you interpret Roman 13:1-7 (Jesus did state “Give to Caesar that which is Caesar’s)

He didn’t say serve Caesar.
It doesn’t work both ways because we are told by Scripture to be separate from the world, it’s not just some idea that I came up with.

See comment above...does “separate from the world” render “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations...” a contradiction? Or does “separate from the world” refer to conduct, behavior, moral principles, etc.

It means just what it says,

11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.

12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.

13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Co 6:11-18 KJV)

Surely you’re not going to suggest one can be involved in government and not be unequally yoked. I highly doubt that the foremost goal of the American government is the kingdom of God.

I believe you will find that throughout the Biblical narrative God used people to accomplish His goals/will. I would venture that Esther 4:14 applies as much today as it did 2300 years ago. Ephesians 2:10 “...works....God prepared in advance for us to do”. Did God need help, No...but obviously scripture clearly points that God chooses to work through his servants.

You could argue the case for Esther but it wouldn’t work. Isaiah prophesied that things would change when Christ came.

Yes, God does use people to accomplish His will at times. However, you don’t find anything in the NT where God used Christians to administer justice with the use of violence.

Again, I am awaiting verses that command us not to defend ourselves from physical attack and injury? I certainly see sufficient verses regarding, as noted above, restraint, non-aggression, love of enemies, and such as referring to insults, mockery, persecution of Faith, etc.

I’ve already given you some, however, it seems you chosen to limit their scope without justification.

Did you mean “can’t” decide what makes a war just? If so and yet you admit that it doesn’t mean “they can’t do anything just” therefore humans have the capability to do some things that are “just”. It would then appear quite probable that some wars are “just”.

It’s not about ability, it’s about authority. Christians have not place judging those outside of the Church. If Paul couldn’t claim that authority surely no Christian since can.

In one sense it is God’s “permissive” will, but in a larger sense it should be abhorrent to Christians and non-christians. Should a government have the authority to impose the death penalty?

I don’t buy into the qualifiers that are placed on the words of Scripture, so there is just what is and is not God’s will. God has given the nations the right to wield the sword, if they choose to have the death penalty that is between them and God. However He has not given the Christian the authority to used the death penalty.

So should Christians refuse jury duty, leave that to non-Christians? If God “sometimes uses men” to exact justice does that include Christians, or again only non-christians? If not why not?

God has already told the Christian what he is and is not to do. Paul said it’s not the Christians place to judge those outside of the church. If exacting justice would violate Christ’s commands then the Christian isn’t to do it.

As noted you are asserting these verses to mean violence in general and I am asserting these verses to mean offenses other than violence.

On what basis? I didn’t say the verses pertained to violence, I simply posted love you enemies. Causing physical harm to someone is not loving them, just as serving on a jury and condemning someone to death is not loving one’s enemies.

I agree, just as arguments that one has no right to defend themselves, or family, or friends, or others from physical violence...is an argument from silence.

My argument isn’t from silence. I’ve given you a few passages of Scripture that preclude the use of violence. However, it seems you’ve limited the scope of those passages without any justification.

Paul said to the Corinthians do not avenge yourselves. The Greek word has a definition to defend oneself. In that passage Paul quotes God from the OT saying vengeance is mine. If as you say those passages are referring to insults and the like are we to believe that when we are insulted we are to keep quiet because God is going to insult the aggressor for us?

As an aside concerning Luke 3:14...are you stating that such a passage is to be dismissed because Jesus hadn’t begun his ministry?

What I’m saying is that that event took place before Jesus gave His commands. However, the argument from that passage is an argument from silence.

As noted they are an argument from silence however it would have been an ideal time in each instance to establish a command against all violence, which they do not.

You’re assuming they didn’t. We don’t know what was said that was not recorded. John the Baptist could have instructed those soldiers for 15, 30, 60 minutes or more for all we know. All we can know is what “was” said.

[quoteI believe what is foundational is whether there is such a thing as “human dignity” or value. I would think that scripture answers that question quite clearly. That we as Christians are called to endure the taunts, mistreatment, mockery, lies, etc. by the enemies of the Gospel does not extrapolate to not be committed to defending the value of human life.[/quote]


Based on what? Where do you see anything in Scripture that teaches the Christian to use force to defend human life?

3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; (2Co 10:3-5 KJV)

 

[Butch5]

Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Hi Deb,

What are you asking about these?

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Deb,

What are you asking about these?

Ok I knew no one would understand without an example.
If a man steals my vehicle, do I call the police to get it back? Is that OK? NO
If a gang member asks me for money should I just give it to him? YES

Is that what these scriptures say?
If he asks give, if he takes let him have it?

 

[jasonc]

how does one know, honestly that a gang member who has a knife to your throat simply wants just money? if its just that then for common sense yes but it can go south. money and rape then murder.

 

[Deborah13]

how does one know, honestly that a gang member who has a knife to your throat simply wants just money? if its just that then for common sense yes but it can go south. money and rape then murder.

No knife, no violence, no threats he just walks up and asks for money.
Per the scripture in Luke do we just give it to him because he asked?
If someone steals from us do we call the police to get it back or do we get accept it as gone?
Per the verse in Luke.
Does that verse even mean this at all.
What do you think that verse says.

 

[jasonc]

a gang member wouldn't do that. they would be attacked and kill by their own. unless its family. I call the cops. why? because likely its not his first time. if it is then I will use that to scare him straight.i shoplifted and I was shown mercy. I didn't stop me from doing that again. I learned to work my game better.