P
peace4all
Guest
lawhammer said:
yet again.
Another example of a "Christian" that weights one sin over all others, and claims that one sin is worse.
btw, Lewis, in case you forgot..
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Should Homosexuals Adopt Children ?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
yet again.
Another example of a "Christian" that weights one sin over all others, and claims that one sin is worse.
btw, Lewis, in case you forgot..
O
Oscar3
Guest
Hello
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
This one word describes much of what paul is saying.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, Its a duck
4202 πορνεία [porneia /por·ni·ah/] n f. From 4203; TDNT 6:579; TDNTA 918; GK 4518; 26 occurrences; AV translates as “fornication†26 times. 1 illicit sexual intercourse. 1a adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. 1b sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. 1c sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12. 2 metaph. the worship of idols. 2a of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
This one word describes much of what paul is saying.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, Its a duck
4202 πορνεία [porneia /por·ni·ah/] n f. From 4203; TDNT 6:579; TDNTA 918; GK 4518; 26 occurrences; AV translates as “fornication†26 times. 1 illicit sexual intercourse. 1a adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. 1b sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. 1c sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12. 2 metaph. the worship of idols. 2a of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols.
kiwimac
Member
Oscar3
Please show me where I or any other Anglican cleric say beastiality is ok. If you cannot, I give you 24 hours to retract this statement and remove it or I will take legal action against both you personally and this site.
Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International
Please show me where I or any other Anglican cleric say beastiality is ok. If you cannot, I give you 24 hours to retract this statement and remove it or I will take legal action against both you personally and this site.
Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International
O
Oscar3
Guest
Like I said, your threats don't scare me, but I DID go overboard with my statement.kiwimac said:
I retract this statement and I appologize for offending you.
Good night.
Atonement
Member
If you read in context:
What Oscar was doing, was showing you what the word πορνεία meant, and you picked up on one meaning of the word?? What about the others? Are they less offensive? Neither one of these has a place in a ture Christian Church. We accept the sinner as they are, but to continue to live in that lifestyle and being accepted by the Church is a cult. No other way around it.. The Church should encourage the sinner to repent, repent and repent.. You do understand the meaning of the word REPENT?? being a priest and all, I'll assume you do. Oscar you have nothing to retract, you stated what a word meant, and this yo yo priest took it out of context..
kiwimac
Member
JM said:
No, it is not. The ACI is technically an "Independent Old Catholic Church" (I will post a link concerning the OCC at the end of this post.) The ACi springs out of the concerns the Founding Bishop (Hugh Strickland) had when he saw the pain in the lives of folk who were, for various reasons, excluded from their local churches.
So part of our raison d'etre comes from the life of Jesus where our Lord fellowshipped with all manner of folk, we do likewise. I am happy to discuss ACi doctrine but I am aware that it might break the site TOS so if you like you can email me directly.
The Old Catholic Church
More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church
Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International
email:piftucoops@kriocoudek.mailexpire.com
kiwimac
Member
Atonement said:
No, I am sorry Atonement what Oscar said was the following:
That is not a discussion of the word porneia. That, Atonement, is libel in that Oscar is suggesting that I PERSONALLY teach that beastiality is OK.
Furthermore Jesus, when he lived among us, did not continually yell repent at people, why? because it is counter-productive, instead he lived with the folk that he ministered to, got alongside them, became friends with them. That is a much more useful way to 'preach' the Good News of Christ.
Atonement
Member
Do you believe the Bible is the true living Word of God?
Because if you do you will know that the word repent occurs 46 times in 43 verses:
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and
throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Has my point been proven or do I need to quote more?? Don't tell me repenting was not a issue because it's infact commanded that we do so.
Lewis
Member
That is true' but he still was against the homosexual sin. The Bible says that being gay is a abomination to mankind. The Bible does not condone being gay' nowhere in it. So lets just stop this garbage right now. And for gay people to adopt a child or children' would have been death in Biblical times' Old and New Testament times. And as a matter of fact they would have killed you if they found out that you were gay anyway. So you would not have the chance to adopt a child' because you would be dead. Old and New Testament times. But today we can't do that' and I am ok with that. I have about 4 gays in my family and I am close to one of them more than the others, and I don't want him dead. But God did not change. The Bible says I am the Lord I change not. So do you really think that God went back on his word ? Only a fool would think so. What He says is finale. Homosexuals is a abomination to mankind. And it does not matter what you think. Because if it does not line up with God it is garbage. Did you all hear me' (garbage). So take that homosexuals will make it to heaven' type attitude somewhere else' because it does not go over big here. And if some don't like how I put this' so what. Because if the Bible says that it is wrong' I will say that it is wrong. Case closed' unless someone wants to take this further.
jgredline
Member
kiwimac said:
ok
correct me if I am wrong. by your answer, it appears that you are a Jesus only kind of guy... This makes sense. In your statement of faith you describe God as manefestations. Modalism. By believing this way Pauls letters and the OT basically have no meaning or are uninspired. Am I close? By believing this way, you can justify a lifestyle such as homosexuality or porneia...
Please correct me if I am wrong.
kiwimac
Member
You obviously missed the bit where I spoke praisingly of Paul's writings.
As for the OT. Paul himself says it best
(Gal 2:16 EMTV) knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law; because no flesh shall be justified by the works of the law.
Further
(Gal 3:10 EMTV) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all the things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
(Gal 3:11 EMTV) But that no one is justified by the law before God is evident, for "The just shall live by faith."
(Gal 3:12 EMTV) But the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."
(Gal 3:13 EMTV) Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us, for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,"
(Gal 3:14 EMTV) so that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:15 EMTV) Brothers, I speak in human fashion: A covenant is of a man, yet having been confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
(Gal 3:16 EMTV) Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises spoken. He does not say, "And to seeds,"as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed,"who is Christ.
(Gal 3:17 EMTV) And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, does not annul the covenant previously confirmed to Christ by God, so that it make the promise of no effect.
(Gal 3:18 EMTV) For if the inheritance comes by the law, it is no longer of promise; but God has given it to Abraham by promise.
(Gal 3:19 EMTV) Why then the law? It was added on account of transgressions, until the Seed should come to whom it had been promised; and it was commanded through angels by the hand of a mediator.
(Gal 3:20 EMTV) Now the mediator is not for one person, but God is one.
(Gal 3:21 EMTV) Therefore, is the law against the promises of God? By no means! For if a law had been given which was able to give life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
(Gal 3:22 EMTV) But the Scripture has confined all under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
(Gal 3:23 EMTV) But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, having been hemmed in for the faith which was to be revealed.
(Gal 3:24 EMTV) Therefore the law has become our custodian, leading us to Christ, so that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal 3:25 EMTV) But after faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian.
(Gal 3:26 EMTV) For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
(Gal 3:27 EMTV) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(Gal 3:28 EMTV) There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(Gal 3:29 EMTV) And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Paul also says quite clearly that if we as Christians attempt to keep any part of the law we place ourselves back under it and must keep it all.
The OT is part of the Bible, it is part of the record of God's dealings with humanity but the laws of the OT are not binding on us.
As for the OT. Paul himself says it best
(Gal 2:16 EMTV) knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law; because no flesh shall be justified by the works of the law.
Further
(Gal 3:10 EMTV) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all the things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
(Gal 3:11 EMTV) But that no one is justified by the law before God is evident, for "The just shall live by faith."
(Gal 3:12 EMTV) But the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."
(Gal 3:13 EMTV) Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us, for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,"
(Gal 3:14 EMTV) so that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:15 EMTV) Brothers, I speak in human fashion: A covenant is of a man, yet having been confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
(Gal 3:16 EMTV) Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises spoken. He does not say, "And to seeds,"as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed,"who is Christ.
(Gal 3:17 EMTV) And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, does not annul the covenant previously confirmed to Christ by God, so that it make the promise of no effect.
(Gal 3:18 EMTV) For if the inheritance comes by the law, it is no longer of promise; but God has given it to Abraham by promise.
(Gal 3:19 EMTV) Why then the law? It was added on account of transgressions, until the Seed should come to whom it had been promised; and it was commanded through angels by the hand of a mediator.
(Gal 3:20 EMTV) Now the mediator is not for one person, but God is one.
(Gal 3:21 EMTV) Therefore, is the law against the promises of God? By no means! For if a law had been given which was able to give life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
(Gal 3:22 EMTV) But the Scripture has confined all under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
(Gal 3:23 EMTV) But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, having been hemmed in for the faith which was to be revealed.
(Gal 3:24 EMTV) Therefore the law has become our custodian, leading us to Christ, so that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal 3:25 EMTV) But after faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian.
(Gal 3:26 EMTV) For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
(Gal 3:27 EMTV) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(Gal 3:28 EMTV) There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(Gal 3:29 EMTV) And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Paul also says quite clearly that if we as Christians attempt to keep any part of the law we place ourselves back under it and must keep it all.
The OT is part of the Bible, it is part of the record of God's dealings with humanity but the laws of the OT are not binding on us.
Lewis
Member
Romans 1 read it. Paul said that' they are worthy of DEATH.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.