Should Homosexuals Adopt Children ?

[kiwimac]

Because those loving adults are homosexuals. Childrens minds can become warped, from this. Some kids can still grow up to be normal' and then some can't. It is unnatural to commit gay acts in the first place. And for the child to know that 2 women or 2 men are sleeping with each other, some kids will think that this is normal' and adopt this stuff themselves.

Not one study done of adoption by homosexuals supports this claim. Can you back it up?

 

[jgredline]

Ray
I noticed that you did not deny anything I said :
I rest my case......

 

[moniker]

Moniker
If you want to get legalistic, who was the book of leviticus written to?
I just finished reading that section of scrioture and did not see anything about cheesburgers, bacon, or wearing fabric blends. Why are you adding to scripture?
You are a false teacher,

Leviticus 19:19 "Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material."
Leviticus 20:25 "You must therefore make a distinction between clean and unclean animals and between unclean and clean birds. Do not defile yourselves by any animal or bird or anything that moves along the groundâ€â€those which I have set apart as unclean for you."
I had thought I remembered one about mixing dairy with meat but am not seeing it with a skim.

 

[kiwimac]

Is it the same thing it says about shellfish and cheeseburgers?

yes,

I too am interested in why the hebrew "to'ebah" is applied to homosexuality by Christians but not to shellfish or cutting the beard or trimming your hair or wearing mixed-fibre clothing. (NOTE, for those unaware, all those activites are described as "to'ebah" in the OT.)

 

[Atonement]

moniker, you're running like a little kid.. Answer the question man, or stop teaching false statements here. Kiwi, I'll just assume you can not answer it either. Between the two of you I don't think I can get anything worth more then $0.02

 

[kiwimac]

Ray
I noticed that you did not deny anything I said :
I rest my case......

Mostly because little you said was accurate.

From the Canons of the ACI.

Declaration of Principles of the Anglican Church International (ACI).

I. Our creator reaches out to all persons, calls them to be their best selves, and yearns for peace, prosperity, and fullness of life for all creatures of God.

II. The Church, as the Body of Christ upon earth with Jesus Christ as the Head, calls all persons to fullness of life, and welcomes all baptized people as ministers of the Church.

III. We understand the meaning of the Bible, the Church’s book, with the help of the Holy Spirit, who guides the people of God in interpretation and understanding. We also affirm and profess the ancient Nicene and Apostles Creeds.

IV. Jesus preached and taught about a way for the people of God to live in a community of love and charity , without regard to social status, ethnic background, sexual orientation or religious affiliation. Jesus gave to the Apostles and all his followers the commission to teach and preach the Gospel to all peoples of all nations and gave them the gift of the Holy Spirit to carry out that mission. He revealed to his followers that all persons have different gifts and that we are called to affirm and dedicate these gifts to the service of God, the fulfillment of our lives on earth and the promise of our everlasting union with God. He empowered ordinary people to build up communities, to bring good news to the poor and broken hearted, to be embody the compassion and love of God toward as a resurrection people.

The Apostles were called upon to preach, to administer the Sacraments, to declare God's forgiveness of sins and to guide the people of God toward eternal life. The Apostolic ministry continues today through many forms of ministry, including the sacraments and the laying on of hands with prayer. The Church guided by the Holy Spirit has carried on the holy orders of the early church: Laity, Bishops, Priests and Deacons. We actively seek out persons for ministry that have been discriminated against, downtrodden or ignored in their calls to ministry at all levels of involvement in the church from Laity to Bishop.

All Lay ministries should be affirmed, including liturgical participation as the basis of the life of the church community. The ministry of all baptized persons is the foundation of the life of the Church. Ordained persons help serve the Church. Those who are ordained serve people by the proclamation and teaching of the Gospel, carrying out canonical duties and the administration of the Sacraments and sacramental rites of the Church through the specific ministries of bishops, priests and deacons.

V. This Church recognizes the importance of tradition and liturgy, and values the continuation of the Anglican tradition in word and sacrament. We acknowledge and affirm that there are many appropriate forms of worship the Anglican churches, both in those "in the communion" and those not "in the communion". Our forms of worship and liturgy shall not be rigid or repress­freedom of prayer, or alternative modes of meditation and prayer. We commend as useful tools and guides for Anglican worship:

a. The Alternative Book of Services of the Anglican Church of Canada .

b. The Book of Common Prayer of the Protestant Episcopal Church (1979).

c. A New Zealand Prayer Book of the Anglican Church in Aotearoa, New Zealand and Polynesia .

d. Such other Anglican prayer books or materials that shall be licensed to be used in this church.

e. Such hymnals that shall be licensed to be used in this church.

VI. The Church has laws and rules for all holy offices of the church in the exercise of their ministry, in the administration of the Holy Sacraments, and in regard to their duties and obligations. The General Laws of the Church are binding upon the holders of office. Official interpretation of the Laws of the Church rest in the House of Bishops with the concurrence of the houses of Clergy and Laity.

Mission

The mission of the ACI is to bring the unconditional love of God to all persons and to assist in the building up of God's just communities of love through compassion and discernment. There are many ways in which the Spirit inspires ministries to accomplish this purpose. The ACI remains open to the ways in which God may use or lead individuals and communities in bringing the ministry of God's love to all people.

Vision

The ACI is a radically inclusive denomination. Our creator calls every person to turn to God's embrace; to find safety, love, and acceptance. The ACI supports the freedom of every human being to respond to the call of a loving God. We affirm a theology that is life giving and enhancing, rather than one that is shaming, rejecting, or oppressive and punitive The ACI seeks, with God's help to be a safe harbor, a community of light that offers God's grace and Christ's love to all who would receive it. We actively seek out those who are on; left behind or cast out by other denominations, institutions, or systems; those who have been discriminated against, or have not felt truly at home in other denominations. Some of these are the poor, social outcasts, gay men and lesbians, racial minorities, the young and old, people with broken relationships, women, trans-gendered persons, bi-sexual persons, those abused or neglected in any way, those questioning their sexuality, those dealing with mental or physical challenges, the sick and dying, and all those seeking to love God and their neighbor as themselves.

I could quote further but I do believe this answers your comments about God and Christ and the Holy Spirit, etc.

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

 

[kiwimac]

moniker, you're running like a little kid.. Answer the question man, or stop teaching false statements here. Kiwi, I'll just assume you can not answer it either. Between the two of you I don't think I can get anything worth more then $0.02

Answer what question?

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

 

[moniker]

Show me where it condemns pediophilia. Is that ok too since you claim the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality therefore it's right?
Same logic.

Right? Not necessarily, just not condemned. We've grown a bit as human beings in the past 2,000 years and things like consent have come into the picture. We're talking about two grown and consenting adults here. The bible also does not speak on miscegenation, what's your take on that? Would God approve, or not?

 

[Atonement]

Whoa, you would not be promoting another religion on this site are you?? You could be banned for this?? Better think before you post here. Now you placed yourself under a microscope..

 

[kiwimac]

Who are you talking to atone?

 

[kiwimac]

You do realise that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is not about homosexuality don't you?

 

[Atonement]

Who are you talking to atone?

YOU.. Do not Promote ACI here.. We don't need to use out-source materials

The Bible is our final Word here. Believe in the Bible and nothing else..

(2Ti 3:16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

BTW could you please prove that Sodom was not apart of homosexuality?

 

[kiwimac]

I would think that a church which worships Jesus Christ as God, accepts the Bible and the Nicene and Apostle's creeds would be Christian, wouldn't you?

Further ALL Anglicans accept the 'triumvirate' of Faith, Tradition and the Bible. I am unaware that that contradicts the TOS of this site. If it does please inform me.

Furthermore as a priest in the ACI who has had his Church brought into disrepute ON THIS SITE I have both the honour and duty to show the mistake made.

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

 

[moniker]

Listen, stop beating around the bush here man.. Answer my question. You can not!!!!!! You answer my question by posing another question.. What else can I expect from you?? Truth?? Yeah right...

I can't show where He promotes that lifestyle. Nor can I show where He promotes joining two disparate ethnicities, yet I would be hard pressed to find anyone that would say Loving v Virginia was a poor ruling or that miscegenation is evil.

Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

Interesting, seeing as there wasn't even a word for homosexual for the longest time. (using King James?) I'm afraid I don't see how a large margin of those would be restricted to just homosexuals, either. Surely this would mean that we must restrict heterosexual couples abilities to adopt children as well.

For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another...' (Romans 1:26-27).

I would say that lustfullness is indeed something to be wary of, however, what of love?

The Greek word arsenokoitai used in 1 Timothy 1:10 literally means 'men who sleep with men'. It is the same Greek word used for 'homosexual offender' in 1 Corinthians 6:9, variously translated as 'abusers of themselves with mankind' (KJV), homosexuals (NASB) or homosexual offender (NIV).

I had thought its literal translation was 'male bedder.' Which has been translated to prostitute, sodomite, referring to the denizens of Soddom who had less than no redeeming quality to their humanity as a whole not just their sex lives, and just plain abusers of themselves which is much more than a touch vague.

Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot and said to him, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have sex with them' (Genesis 19:4-5).

What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah?

It was destroyed because there were not even 10 men who had any redeeming aspect to their humanity, not just their sex lives.

The foundational teaching on marriage and sexual issues is found in Genesis chapters 1 and 2. When Jesus was questioned about marriage, He referred to these 2 chapters (Matthew 19:1-12; Mark 10:1-12). Genesis teaches us that 'male and female He created them' (Genesis 1:27). We were created to a planmale and female complementing each other. That is, God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, nor Madam and Eve.

He was teaching towards faithfulness here. Beyond that, well, let's just say that I get a different reading from the whole of Genesis than you apparently do.

Genesis also teaches that God instituted and designed marriage between a man and a woman Genesis 2:18-25. There are a number of reasons why He did so.

The complementary structure of the male and female anatomy is obviously designed for the normal husband-wife relationships. Clearly, design in human biology supports heterosexuality and contradicts homosexuality.

Biologically, yes, but there is more to passing on your genes than that as your children need to live long enough to procreate themselves.

The combination of male and female enables man (and the animals) to produce and nurture offspring as commanded in Genesis 1:28 Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth'. This command is repeated to Noah after the Flood (Genesis 8:15-17).

[/quote]

No it pretty much just means you can produce. Everything after that requires neither a penis nor a vagina.

But procreation is not the only reason God made humans as sexual beings. The BUWA report affirms 'that sexual intimacy between husband and wife is good, and is intended by God for bonding, pleasure and procreation.

Sex that is not meant to procreate is 'spilling your seed' and would be fornication by a strict reading of the bible.

 

[kiwimac]

As to Sodom and Gomorrah.

1: God had already decided to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah before the Angels left from Mamre to go there.

(Gen 18:17 WEB) Yahweh said, “Will I hide from Abraham what I do,

(Gen 18:18 WEB) seeing that Abraham has surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed in him?

(Gen 18:19 WEB) For I have known him, to the end that he may command his children and his household after him, that they may keep the way of Yahweh, to do righteousness and justice; to the end that Yahweh may bring on Abraham that which he has spoken of him.”

(Gen 18:20 WEB) Yahweh said, “Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous,

(Gen 18:21 WEB) I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come to me. If not, I will know.”

(Gen 18:22 WEB) The men turned from there, and went toward Sodom, but Abraham stood yet before Yahweh.

(Gen 18:23 WEB) Abraham drew near, and said, “Will you consume the righteous with the wicked?

2: When the Angels came to Sodom and Lot invited them into his home a number of things occur which indicate that this was not simply a case of predatory homosexuality.

i: Lot offers his daughters to the crowd (which would be unlikely if this was about homosexuality)

ii: The word used in Genesis 19:4 which is often translated as "...the men of the city, the men of Sodom, is the Hebrew 'enowsh which means "a mortal" both singly and collectively. So Gen 19:4 can be translated as meaning that "all the folk of Sodom gathered." at Lot's house.

3: What the Prophets and Jesus have to say concerning Sodom and Gomorrah.

i: Isaiah 1; The entire first chapter is an utter condemnation of Judah. They are repeatedly compared with Sodom and Gomorrah in their evildoing and depravity. Throughout the chapter, the Prophet lists many sins of the people:

rebelling against God,
lacking in knowledge,
deserting the Lord,
idolatry,
engaging in meaningless religious ritual,
being unjust and oppressive to others,
being insensitive to the needs of widows and orphans,
committing murder,
accepting bribes, etc.

There is no reference to homosexuality or to any other sexual activities at all.

ii:Jeremiah 23:14:"...among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his wickedness. They are all like Sodom to me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah."

Jeremiah compares the actions of the prophets with the adultery, lying and evil of the people of Sodom. Homosexual activity is not mentioned.

iii: Ezekeiel 16:49-50:"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen."

God states clearly that he destroyed Sodom's sins because of their pride, their excess of food while the poor and needy suffered; sexual activity is not even mentioned.

iv: Matthew 10:14-15: Jesus implied that the sin of the people of Sodom was to be inhospitable to strangers.

v: Luke 10:7-16: This is parallel passage to the verses from Matthew.


4: The Jewish POV concerning the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Judaism’s Encounter with Greed:

The notion that humans are merely stewards of wealth, not its owner, can play into the hands of the greedy.

By Dr. Meir Tamari

<snip>

The Mishnah (Avot 5:12) classifies one whose attitude to wealth is “What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours” as being a mediocre person. Such a person is prepared to respect the property of another and operate within the framework of the law. However, he is not prepared to assist others, nor does he recognize a social obligation in view of the wealth in his possession.

“Some say,” continues the Mishnah, “this is the mark of the people of Sodom.” The people of Sodom have been the archetype of an evil community deserving of destruction ever since biblical times, primarily because of their selfish economic behavior.

The Malbim (Rabbi Meir Lebush, Hungary, nineteenth century) comments that their sin lay in their refusal to share their wealth with the surrounding nations. It should be noted that while the Aggadah [classical rabbinic legends] is replete with stories of their inhospitality to strangers, the men of Sodom welcomed Lot, Abraham’s nephew. Lot was a wealthy man, and it was only poor strangers who were not welcome in Sodom. The Sodomite view of absolute private property rejects any obligations to assist others, which is contrary to the Jewish concept of limited private-property rights....

<snip>

From the site: http://www.chabad.org, we read

... <snip> The Sodomites were notorious for their wickedness. They had no consideration for the poor, nor for the passing stranger to whom they offered no hospitality; nor would they even sell him any food or water. Once they had found out that Plitith, Lot’s daughter, had secretly given food to a stranger who was near starvation, and they burned her in public. Another time, when they discovered that a young girl had fed a starving beggar, they smeared honey all over her and placed her upon the city wall, so that she died from the stings of the bees attracted by the honey.

These and many other similar hideous acts of cruelty by the Sodomites and their neighbors of Gomorrah, had aroused G-d’s anger, and He decided to destroy them completely....<snip>

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

 

[Atonement]

Am I suppose to believe that The "Sin of Sodom" had nothing to do with homosexual sex but was a failure to care for the poor, the widows and the orphans?


Frank Griswold
Anglicanism was brought to the New World by explorers and colonists with the first celebration of the Holy Eucharist in Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607.
The first church to elect an openly gay bishop - but only after long and heated debate.

Andrew Hutchison
First church building was St. Paul's, Halifax, in 1750.
"Canadian gays and lesbians will continue to be welcomed and received in our churches and to have their contributions to our common life honoured," said Archbishop Peers. A new rite of blessing for same sex unions has been authorised by one diocese.

The ACI also recognises that gay people are "by baptism... full members of the Church" and apologises to them for years of rejection and maltreatment by the Church.

Yet you believe the Bible?

 

[kiwimac]

Firstly,

You are confusing the ACI with the ECUSA. They are not the same.

Secondly,

ALL human-beings are made in God's image and likeness, not just the straight ones.

Thirdly.

Jesus of Nazareth fellowshipped with prostitutes and sinners, can I do less?

Fourthly,

It is not my job to judge them, my job is to proclaim the Good News of Jesus, it is God's job to judge.

Fifthly,

Civil unions are legal in both Canada and New Zealand, the Church mets people where they are not where we would like them to be.

Sixthly,

The BIBLE makes it clear that the sin of Sodom was economic. What you do with that truth is up to you.

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

 

[Lewis]

Moniker
Are you a homosexual?

 

[moniker]

Moniker
Are you a homosexual?

Yeah, I never really understood that line of thinking either. I support gay rights even though I'm heterosexual just like I support women's rights and feminism even though I am a man, and how I support civil rights even though I'm white, or how I support the rights of other people to express their religious views (or lack thereof) even though I'm not an athiest or a buddhist or a jew or what have you.

 

[peace4all]

Ray
Of course you would feel this way since you are a part of the apostasy of the Church. (IN OTHER WORDS A CULT) You are a priest of a church who welcomes sin. While I agree we are to love the sinner, your church turns around and loves the sin and whats more has made peace with the sin of Homosexuality.
I browswed your web site and there is no mention of well anything other than seeker friendlyness. No Trinity, No Jesus is God, Certainly no mention of Hell, Nada..... You have no credibility.... If you read the Bible, you would see that homosexuality is a sin. Try reading it sometime...

Now do I really need to say more?

http://www.theanglicanchurchinternational.org/

for a mod on this forum, you are very full of hate, and act VERY disrespectful.


Back on topic.

I say yes, they should. Research has shown that children of homosexuals are just as likely as children of heterosexuals to become gay or lesbian.

I think it is ridiculous that you would say that children should be forced to live as a ward of the state, and NEVER have a mother OR father figure, in their entire life. It's absolutely ridiculous. If someone is willing to open up their home and their heart for a child that is needy, who are you to stand in their way? Solely because you believe they are a sinner, doesn't mean they don't deserve the same rights you do. What, should everyone that sins not be allowed to adopt children? Anyone who has ever gambled or lied or cheated or had pre-marital sex? they shouldn't be allowed to adopt either right?

Should muslims be allowed to adopt kids? what about Atheists? I am a sinner too. Should I be banned from adoption?

should we take kids away from single parents? because they don't have a mother and father? absolutely right?