Should The Law Punish Adultery

[thessalonian]

I basically see two possible negative responses to my announcing I went to a strip club:

1. "Strip clubs are degrading to women and the Bible speaks badly of going there. You should reconsider going to such places."

or

2. "You have no class."

The first tries to use reason and the second one is just sticking your tongue out and making a rasberry sound.

I agree 100%. Christians should learn to be more loving and tactful when dealing with those who hold view points contrary to the Bible. This of course should never be done to a point were one is so “tolerate†that they almost show approval for a sin. In other words balance should be sought, with the help of the Holy Spirit or course.

Fourty days and Nineva will be destroyed for it's sins. Tact? Paul says no thieves, adulters, fornicators, homosexuals, murders, etc. etc. shall enter the kingdom. Tact? He says the man caught living with his fathers wife is to be given over to satan so that his soul might be saved. Tact? Paul rebuked Peter to his face. No, I think directness has it's place. Yes there are times when someone who is ignorant of the possibility that what they did was sinful should be approached tactfully. This case appears to me to be an open denial of a sin being committed by attending strip clubs, in the face of some knowledge that Christianity in general views such attendance as sinful. Such pride needs to be opposed.

Blessings

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Fourty days and Nineva will be destroyed for it's sins. Tact? Paul says no thieves, murderers, adulters, fornicators, homosexuals, murders, etc. etc. shall enter the kingdom. Tact? He says the man caught living with his fathers wife is to be given over to satan so that his soul might be saved. Tact? Paul rebuked Peter to his face. No, I think directness has it's place.

Ok, I never disagreed with that but in the case with Quath tack could have been used. I myself have been told by sister that I am often to blunt...well she has a point. So based on that I have been trying to exercise more tact--and when I think about it if Christians would do like wise they might get a better response from opponents.

As for the words of Paul, he knew when bluntness was necessary. Many times, and every case that Paul was blunt, called for and could only call for cold hard truth. I am not asking for some to “sugar coat†stuff but discretion.

 

[Quath]

Bragging about going to a strip club in a Christian forum is out of line.

I wouldn't call it bragging since I was just talking about how I wouldn't want the government to get involved in certain areas of my life. I showed no shame, but that is not the same as bragging.

OC showed class.

I agree. He is a very good person to talk to.

I agree 100%. Christians should learn to be more loving and tactful when dealing with those who hold view points contrary to the Bible. This of course should never be done to a point were one is so “tolerate†that they almost show approval for a sin. In other words balance should be sought, with the help of the Holy Spirit or course.

This is a tough thing for a Christian because there is a lot of hypocracy and feelings that someone is acting "holier-than-thou." I think balance is a good way to go about it because it allows for a Christian to show they don't approve and it doesn't push the other person away.

Any atheist who has convictions about the dignity and equality of women, yet indulges in the product of the skin trade strikes me as morally and ethically inconsistent...knowing as we do the manner in which these women are targeted, cultivated, kept and treated- let alone what makes them vulnerable to being turned out in the first place.

That is a good point. The way I reconcile this is I see it in three perspectives. One is an ideal world, one is the real world, and one is just based on the idea of trade.

In an ideal world, strippers are not seen in a bad light and it could be decent job. Basically, as a society, we accept that nudity itself is not bad (some people see it as bad, but nude statues show that the overall society is not like that). We think that paying for dancers is ok (such as at a theater). We also think that beauty competitions are acceptable (though in the real world it can be degrading at times). So I would see the combination of these acceptable things as something that should be acceptable.

In the real world, many of these women come from bad backgrounds or start to hang out with people that get them into trouble. (Not all, but a lot.) So if stripping were illegal, would it be better off for these women? I doubt it. I think they would go to illegal prostitution. So in that sense, I think stripping helps out these women more than if they could not strip.

The last is that strippers are engaged in trade. Or in other terms consenting adults exchange money for something that they both feel makes them wealthier or happier. No woman is forced to strip (in the USA) so this is consentual adult activities.

I went on longer than I thought. I could say more, but then I would be diverting this further from the main subject, whatever that was.

Quath

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Thanks Robert for the apology- accepted without reservation.

I may have been out of line once or twice on this forum... :

warmly
James

 

[bibleberean]

Thanks Robert for the apology- accepted without reservation.

I may have been out of line once or twice on this forum... :

warmly
James

I am sure I will owe someone else an apology before "the fat lady sings." :D

Sincerely,

Robert

 

[Soma-Sight]

I agree that no Christian should boast of doing things that are unseemly, scandalous or immoral. Nowhere in my statement is there any indication that 1. I attend strip clubs or 2. I think of such as appropriate activities for anyone. My issue is with the fact that so many Christians do these things, then DARE to look down their nose at those outside the faith who do so and are open about it.

I'd rather sup with a 'sinner' than a hypocrite any time.

I find establishments that purvey and sell sex as a commodity to be a blight upon our world. I was in Las Vegas 2 months ago, and I was deeply sickened by the objectification and packaging of, well, everything. Human life has little or no value there.

So don't get me wrong, I don't endorse the skin trade, I just think Christians would do well to clean out their own gutters before casting aspersions.

Alternatively:
Any atheist who has convictions about the dignity and equality of women, yet indulges in the product of the skin trade strikes me as morally and ethically inconsistent...knowing as we do the manner in which these women are targeted, cultivated, kept and treated- let alone what makes them vulnerable to being turned out in the first place.

OC,

Your a good writer!

 

[thessalonian]

In an ideal world, strippers are not seen in a bad light and it could be decent job.

In the ideal world strippers are unemployed or should I say employed in a moral fashion that does not destroy their dignity and enslave them to the lusts of men. This is what the industry thrives on. Futher it needs women who have been brought up in disordered homes to provide the supply for the demand. Without disorder and sin in society there is not porn industry.

Basically, as a society, we accept that nudity itself is not bad (some people see it as bad, but nude statues show that the overall society is not like that).

In and of itself nudity is not wrong. The problem with it is man's fallen nature and his inability to control his flesh. The result is enslavement to sin. This is what is wrong with your consenting adults theory below. These adults are not consenting "freely" but are enslaved by their lusts and passions.

We think that paying for dancers is ok (such as at a theater). We also think that beauty competitions are acceptable (though in the real world it can be degrading at times). So I would see the combination of these acceptable things as something that should be acceptable.

Beauty competitions have limits. Dancing has limits to what is appropriate and what is not. Both of them historically have had limits when it gets in to the area of immodesty and sexual similuation on the dancing end of things. Your view of what is acceptable is disordered.

In the real world, many of these women come from bad backgrounds or start to hang out with people that get them into trouble. (Not all, but a lot.) So if stripping were illegal, would it be better off for these women? I doubt it. I think they would go to illegal prostitution. So in that sense, I think stripping helps out these women more than if they could not strip.

Helps out? This is nutz. These women are trapped. The are objects for use by men. They are not looked at for the dignity God gave them but for the sexual pleasure they can provide to men who are enslaved by their lust. Financial gain is not all that it is cracked up to be. It seems to be the basis for this silliness you call acceptable. I am more condemnatory of the men who make this industry happen than the women. God help those who destroy the dignity of women who are made in the image and likeness of God. Hell has no hole deep enough in my opinion. Especially if it was one of my daughters who someone lured in to this wickedness. I can't gaurantee I wouldn't try to arrange a meeting with their judge.

The last is that strippers are engaged in trade. Or in other terms consenting adults exchange money for something that they both feel makes them wealthier or happier. No woman is forced to strip (in the USA) so this is consentual adult activities.

As I said before there is little real consent in all of this. I find your views to be most disturbing and see little room for them on a Christian board. Most certainly they do not have concern for the souls of men and women involved in this perverted industry. I am sure you will put up the self righteous defense. That's fine. You know little about me and my life on which to base such a claim that would be a lie. You have little understanding of sin and mans corrupt nature. I condemn your views in love and concern for your soul.

Blessings

 

[Quath]

In the ideal world strippers are unemployed or should I say employed in a moral fashion that does not destroy their dignity and enslave them to the lusts of men. This is what the industry thrives on. Futher it needs women who have been brought up in disordered homes to provide the supply for the demand. Without disorder and sin in society there is not porn industry.

I know what you are saying, but I was talking about an ideal world where nude dancing would not be considered a perverted thing but one of beauty. Basically a ballet in the nude type of thinking. I recognize this is not reality, but in an ideological sense, i see nothing wrong with nude dancers.

In and of itself nudity is not wrong. The problem with it is man's fallen nature and his inability to control his flesh. The result is enslavement to sin. This is what is wrong with your consenting adults theory below. These adults are not consenting "freely" but are enslaved by their lusts and passions.

So are you saying there is no free will and these people can make no other choice?

Beauty competitions have limits. Dancing has limits to what is appropriate and what is not. Both of them historically have had limits when it gets in to the area of immodesty and sexual similuation on the dancing end of things. Your view of what is acceptable is disordered.

Strippers have limits as well. I am not sure what point you are making.

Helps out? This is nutz. These women are trapped. The are objects for use by men. They are not looked at for the dignity God gave them but for the sexual pleasure they can provide to men who are enslaved by their lust. Financial gain is not all that it is cracked up to be. It seems to be the basis for this silliness you call acceptable. I am more condemnatory of the men who make this industry happen than the women. God help those who destroy the dignity of women who are made in the image and likeness of God. Hell has no hole deep enough in my opinion. Especially if it was one of my daughters who someone lured in to this wickedness. I can't gaurantee I wouldn't try to arrange a meeting with their judge.

How are they trapped? Can they not get another job? If not, then if stripping was not available, they would starve to death. What are you proposing, that no one pay strippers so they have no money? That is pretty cold.

Now if you think if stripping was not available and they could get another job, then they are not trapped, it is a choice.

Quath

 

[ThinkerMan]

Seems to me God had zero problem with nudity. It was Adam and Eve who were ashamed of their nakedness.

God seemed fine with it.

 

[Vic C.]

How are they trapped? Can they not get another job? If not, then if stripping was not available, they would starve to death.

No, they would take it to the next level of depravity. The would prostitute themselves.

It is a trap. A trap sweeter than honey. The lifestyle and money is very alluring... and addictive. They rationalize not giving it up by saying things like "I will never be able to make this kind of money anywhere else" or "I don't know how to do anything else". It leads to keeping secrets from loved ones, friends and family members in many cases.

Would you condone your daughter (not assuming, just hypothetical) if she wanted to strip for a living? How about if your wife wanted to strip?

 

[Quath]

No, they would take it to the next level of depravity. The would prostitute themselves.

By supporting strippers, I am keeping them from becoming prostitutes. See I am a good guy. ;-)

It is a trap. A trap sweeter than honey. The lifestyle and money is very alluring... and addictive. They rationalize not giving it up by saying things like "I will never be able to make this kind of money anywhere else" or "I don't know how to do anything else". It leads to keeping secrets from loved ones, friends and family members in many cases.

I agree that in practice many bad things happen. Sometimes they do not. I have talked to many strippers and I have gotten a wide range of stories.

A lot of the rationalization is self fulfilling. If you think you can't do anything else, you will not try and will not do anything else. yet there are some that srip for a few years, save money and get out of the business. But that is not too common from what I have seen.

Would you condone your daughter (not assuming, just hypothetical) if she wanted to strip for a living? How about if your wife wanted to strip?

That is funny. My wife and I and her best friend had a talk about this. The first was about our daughters. If it was a money issue we would help them out so they did not have to do that. However, if it was a lifestyle they wanted and they enjoyed the scene, we would not object.

If my wife wanted to strip, I would be ok as long as she wasn't just doing it for the money. As long as she stays honest and doesn't cheat on me, I would be fine with it.

My sister use to be a stripper. She was kind of the wild child that didn't want to settle down. She lived homeless in New Orleans for awhile and loved it. But after a few years, she realized the wild life is kind of draining and she wanted more stability. So she joined the marines and left boot camp at the top of her class.

Quath

 

[Lewis]

That is funny. My wife and I and her best friend had a talk about this. The first was about our daughters. If it was a money issue we would help them out so they did not have to do that. However, if it was a lifestyle they wanted and they enjoyed the scene, we would not object.

If my wife wanted to strip, I would be ok as long as she wasn't just doing it for the money. As long as she stays honest and doesn't cheat on me, I would be fine with it.

Wow now that is deep, there could be nothing my daughter could tell me to make me except her striping. What kind of Christian marriage would it be if your wife is permitted to strip, and if she is a Christian woman why would she want to do that, in the first place. If one's wife says she wants to strip this is not good, and you have married the wrong person.

 

[Solo]

I was a stripper back when but I got so tired of painting that I stopped and went to work digging ditches. Stripping paint from houses is a tough job, and I think everyone who does it should be paid the maximum!! :splat:

 

[reznwerks]

dig

I was a stripper back when but I got so tired of painting that I stopped and went to work digging ditches. Stripping paint from houses is a tough job, and I think everyone who does it should be paid the maximum!! :splat:

Digging ditches is easier than painting? Salary, wages?

 

[reznwerks]

This is from an article from CNN, that I saw today. Should the law punish adultery ? http://www.cnn.com/

Before one can answer it the question has to be raised as to whether the law can. Adultery has many different interpretations based on who is interpreting. Most would agree that adultery occurs when a physical/sexual relationship has occurred. However many would also agree that adultery occurs when one partner has "lusted" after the opposite sex or same sex . Considering I just saw a news article on Good Morning America (I think) which stated that 92% of managers of businesses lusted after a co worker. So comparing that to the rest of the population I think it would hold true across the board. Enforcing any laws against it would be far worse than the war on drugs which has been shown to be a dismal failure. Adultery is a lot like drugs in that it starts with a little here a little there and before you know it that little bit is not enough and then it takes a little more to get that same rush and before you know it the relationship is in a tailspin. As to the ultimate consequences of adultery (divorce) I don't think anyone hasn't heard of the bitterness that ensues, the financial ruin it creates for both, the distorted future it creates for children, let alone the permanent negative health consequence for those unlikely to contract HIV and some hard to treat STD'S. It's the contractual relationship of marriage that needs to be preserved for the sake of stability in the society. It shouldn't really be a state issue nor do I believe it is feasible to meddle in the private lives or happiness of those relationships.

 

[Nikki]

How are they trapped? Can they not get another job? If not, then if stripping was not available, they would starve to death.

No, they would take it to the next level of depravity. The would prostitute themselves.

It is a trap. A trap sweeter than honey. The lifestyle and money is very alluring... and addictive. They rationalize not giving it up by saying things like "I will never be able to make this kind of money anywhere else" or "I don't know how to do anything else". It leads to keeping secrets from loved ones, friends and family members in many cases.

Would you condone your daughter (not assuming, just hypothetical) if she wanted to strip for a living? How about if your wife wanted to strip?

You're right Vic. The money is what usually draws them to it. I have two friends that are strippers. They both hate it, but they make tons of money. It's made the one loose all respect for men in general. Yet, they don't stop because of the money. If you met the one, you would NEVER EVER know she was a stripper. She doesn't have that stripper look, she's highly intelligent, and doesn't live a lavish lifestyle. She dances to get her way through school and pay her rent, food, etc.

Money is so powerful and it's things likethis that really proove that.

 

[D46]

Money is so powerful and it's things likethis that really proove that.

1Timothy 6:10 (KJV) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

So true...surely, Nikki, your friends could find some other method of making a living without this. My step- daughter worked to get through school but, it wasn't at a strip joint. I think if I were a woman I had rather work two mundane jobs than show my body off to all those prying guys. Moreover, you know many in that audience are married and what they see only fuels the flame when they go home (if they do) and get incensed because their wifes don't look as good. Just a thought.

 

[thessalonian]

So are you saying there is no free will and these people can make no other choice?

Jesus says "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.". How many times does the Bible speak in relation of slavery to sin. The sinner is enslaved by his passions. I'll look up verses for you later that make this clear but yes that is exactly what I am saying. A man driven by his passions is not free. Christ came to free us through his death on the cross and grace, not just to cover over sin but to overcome sin. The definition of "free will" is actually better understood as the freedom to do what is right, rather than a choice between good and evil. In our fallen nature we do not have "free will" for we are not free. God gives us true freedom when we are in Christ.

 

[bibleberean]

Money is so powerful and it's things likethis that really proove that.

1Timothy 6:10 (KJV) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

So true...surely, Nikki, your friends could find some other method of making a living without this. My step- daughter worked to get through school but, it wasn't at a strip joint. I think if I were a woman I had rather work two mundane jobs than show my body off to all those prying guys. Moreover, you know many in that audience are married and what they see only fuels the flame when they go home (if they do) and get incensed because their wifes don't look as good. Just a thought.

I was going to post something similar. "Great minds think alike.." :D

The thing that gets me is the men and women who go to these places and think there is nothing wrong with it.

Nikki makes a good point and observation about her friend.

"It's made the one loose all respect for men in general."

Being nasty is not a virtue and people get hurt even if the people who have no qualms about the exploitation of women won't admit it.

A man I knew once bragged to me about having sex with a 19 year old hooker in Las vegas.

I asked him how he would have felt if some old guy had paid his then 18 year old daughter to have sex with him. He stormed off in a red faced huff and wouldn't speak to me after that.

The myth of the "victimless crime..."

Very sad when people are so shallow they can't see the carnage that STD's, rape, divorce, adultery, abortion and the hurt feelings of betrayed wives and children have brought to our nation through the evil of adultery and fornication.

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[Solo]

Re: dig

I was a stripper back when but I got so tired of painting that I stopped and went to work digging ditches. Stripping paint from houses is a tough job, and I think everyone who does it should be paid the maximum!! :splat:

Digging ditches is easier than painting? Salary, wages?

Actually this was more of a joke than reality. I have worked on a couple of houses stripping and painting, but was not fully employed doing such. I started my current vocation 25 years ago digging ditches and climbing poles which the starting wages at the time was less than $5 per hour. I worked up to the position of Director in the same company where I now earn a fairly healthy salary. Hard work, perseverence, and being at the right place at the right time means plenty.
Have a great day reznwerks!
Michael