Signs of the times?

[tessiewebb]

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Is this prophecy still in process of being fulfilled and probably will be in our day? Or is it long since completed and no longer relevant to this generation? Before answering, verse 27 should be considered: And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Islam seems a probable candidate for the "wearing out" of the saints as its followers continue to overrun countries all over the world and infiltrate governments in many more with the intention of taking control. Coupled with the drive to convert everyone to Islam is the urging to change the "times and laws". This "movement" seems to have power not just equal to its members but far beyond the people involved. It seems satanically fueled. Certainly the religion is anti-Christ. What do you think?

 

[JLB]

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Is this prophecy still in process of being fulfilled and probably will be in our day? Or is it long since completed and no longer relevant to this generation? Before answering, verse 27 should be considered: And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Islam seems a probable candidate for the "wearing out" of the saints as its followers continue to overrun countries all over the world and infiltrate governments in many more with the intention of taking control. Coupled with the drive to convert everyone to Islam is the urging to change the "times and laws". This "movement" seems to have power not just equal to its members but far beyond the people involved. It seems satanically fueled. Certainly the religion is anti-Christ. What do you think?

Good scripture and point!

However, please consider that "he" shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, not "they" as in Islam.

There will be a world ruler after the pattern that Daniel gives in Daniel 9:24-27. It was a "world ruler" [Cyrus] that gave the command to "restore and build Jerusalem" and it was a world ruler [King Artaxerxes, Ezra 4:23] that caused the work to cease, and a world ruler [Darius king of Persia]that caused it to start up again and it will be a "world ruler" with the authority to "confirm a covenant with many for one week" that will cause "sacrifice and offering" to begin again in our day.

You made a great point by associating Daniel 7:27 with a time that hasn't taken place as of yet.

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

There is only one answer to your question and that is Satan who has weaken the nations and speaks great things against God as he wears out the saints of God by tempting them always to lose their faith in Christ for this is his only goal before being thrown into the lake of fire along with his beast (evil nations (people) and the false prophets (those he uses to teach a twisted word from a false gospel).

 

[JLB]

There is only one answer to your question and that is Satan who has weaken the nations and speaks great things against God as he wears out the saints of God by tempting them always to lose their faith in Christ for this is his only goal before being thrown into the lake of fire along with his beast (evil nations (people) and the false prophets (those he uses to teach a twisted word from a false gospel).

Scripture please.

 

[wayseer]

Islam seems a probable candidate for the "wearing out" of the saints as its followers continue to overrun countries all over the world and infiltrate governments in many more with the intention of taking control. Coupled with the drive to convert everyone to Islam is the urging to change the "times and laws". This "movement" seems to have power not just equal to its members but far beyond the people involved. It seems satanically fueled. Certainly the religion is anti-Christ. What do you think?

Islam is not 'overrunning' countries at all. If countries have been 'overrun' by a religion it has been by Christianity.

Islam is not anti-Christ. Jesus is revered as a Prophet and will appear to Muslims during the judgement.

Certainly Islam opposes the concept of the Trinity - but 99% of Christians cannot explain the doctrine of the Trinity anyway. Just have a look at the discussion concerning the Trinity of this board and you will soon see the problem.

Dont get looking sideways. It is probably better than you keep to you own path.

 

[tessiewebb]

Islam is not 'overrunning' countries at all. If countries have been 'overrun' by a religion it has been by Christianity.

Islam is not anti-Christ. Jesus is revered as a Prophet and will appear to Muslims during the judgement.

Certainly Islam opposes the concept of the Trinity - but 99% of Christians cannot explain the doctrine of the Trinity anyway. Just have a look at the discussion concerning the Trinity of this board and you will soon see the problem.

Dont get looking sideways. It is probably better than you keep to you own path.

Jesus said that if you believe in Him, you shall be saved. Islam does not believe that, therefore it is anti-Christ. To consider Him as a "prophet" only is to put Him on the same level as Moses and Elijah. Neither of those ever proclaimed themselves the Son of God, nor Messiah. To trust in any other person, or supposed god is to deny Him. How that can be overlooked is unbelievable. wayseer, since you name yourself such, very peculiar of you to presume you know the path when it is obvious by your post you do not. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me", "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? and "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." John 14:6,9 & John 10:1 There is only one way to heaven and that is through believing He is Who and what He said He is. It certainly is not thru strapping on a suicide vest nor does that "honor" anyone. It is a violent and vicious thing to do to a young man who has no better knowledge of the love God has for him than the lies told him by a deceived or deceiving teacher.

BTW, the stated goal of Islam is to overrun all the world for the "glory" of Islam, to establish a caliphate under which all people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike are subject. Your post notwithstanding, that goal is well on its way to being realized in Europe and soon coming to a neighborhood near you. You may have no problem with that now, but if you live in America or another non-Muslim country and you are not already a Muslim, you certainly will. Also, just in passing, you have no right, authority, nor power to tell me where to "look" and you never will.

 

[tessiewebb]

Good scripture and point!

However, please consider that "he" shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, not "they" as in Islam.

There will be a world ruler after the pattern that Daniel gives in Daniel 9:24-27. It was a "world ruler" [Cyrus] that gave the command to "restore and build Jerusalem" and it was a world ruler [King Artaxerxes, Ezra 4:23] that caused the work to cease, and a world ruler [Darius king of Persia]that caused it to start up again and it will be a "world ruler" with the authority to "confirm a covenant with many for one week" that will cause "sacrifice and offering" to begin again in our day.

You made a great point by associating Daniel 7:27 with a time that hasn't taken place as of yet. JLB

You are correct that the verse does say "he" but the concordance does not. In fact the single word there in the Chaldean is simply "pael" meaning to speak. The "he shall" was placed there by the translators. Same for "his hand" in verse 25. That is just the word for "hand" or "power". That is "yad", and it is actually a feminine noun.

 

[JLB]

Islam is not 'overrunning' countries at all. If countries have been 'overrun' by a religion it has been by Christianity.

Islam is not anti-Christ. Jesus is revered as a Prophet and will appear to Muslims during the judgement.

Certainly Islam opposes the concept of the Trinity - but 99% of Christians cannot explain the doctrine of the Trinity anyway. Just have a look at the discussion concerning the Trinity of this board and you will soon see the problem.

Dont get looking sideways. It is probably better than you keep to you own path.

Brother, I don't know where you get your information, but Islam is responsible for murdering christians every single day all over the world.

It doesn't get any more Antichrist than that.


Wake up!

http://www.persecution.com


JLB

 

[wayseer]

Jesus said that if you believe in Him, you shall be saved. Islam does not believe that, therefore it is anti-Christ.

You are now talking doctrine. But if I take you argument to its fullest extreme then anyone who does not agree with you will be deemed the anti-Christ.

To consider Him as a "prophet" only is to put Him on the same level as Moses and Elijah.

Are you suggesting that Moses and Elijah are also anti-Christ?

All you are doing is inventing convenient arguments to support your particular worldview - your own belief system. That's OK - we all do that. But in the end - what is you real objective? To stir up hatred? To feel a little better for getting it all off your chest? To demonstrate your Christian credentials?

If you see Islam as something to be feared then you might also acknowledge that perhaps many Muslims also fear Christians for much the same reasons. It is a matter of personal worldviews.

 

[wayseer]

Brother, I don't know where you get your information, but Islam is responsible for murdering christians every single day all over the world.

Where exactly?

It doesn't get any more Antichrist than that.

Then you have little idea of the use of the term 'anti-Christ'.

Wake up!

Thank you I am up earlier than you - I don't bow to popular opinion in whatever guise it is presented.

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Thank you I am up earlier than you - I don't bow to popular opinion in whatever guise it is presented.

Are you against popular opinion, simply because it is popular?

There is popular opinion that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

What say you?

 

[wayseer]

I'd say your are off topic.

 

[for_his_glory]

Scripture please.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

 

[JLB]

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

There is only one answer to your question and that is Satan who has weaken the nations and speaks great things against God as he wears out the saints of God by tempting them always to lose their faith in Christ for this is his only goal before being thrown into the lake of fire along with his beast (evil nations (people) and the false prophets (those he uses to teach a twisted word from a false gospel).

Those scriptures that you quoted certainly explain what you wrote very clearly. I see now exactly what you were saying, it's all perfectly clear now, especially how the beast is the "nations" and the false prophet is everyone else who twists God's word.

That really lays it out clear.

Thanks for sharing.


JLB

 

[tessiewebb]

You are now talking doctrine. But if I take you argument to its fullest extreme then anyone who does not agree with you will be deemed the anti-Christ.

That's anti-Christ, not "the" and yes.

Are you suggesting that Moses and Elijah are also anti-Christ?

Like to twist words do you? Like I said, they were prophets and still are since God is the God of the living.

All you are doing is inventing convenient arguments to support your particular worldview - your own belief system. That's OK - we all do that. But in the end - what is you real objective? To stir up hatred? To feel a little better for getting it all off your chest? To demonstrate your Christian credentials?

Um, none of the above. My "real objective" is to sound a warning concerning the Islamic agenda. Which is a sign of the times, btw. Also, since I started this thread, it is my option to decide what is "off topic".

Now let me ask you a pointed question, though I'll try not question your character or motives: What "way" do you "see"?

 

[tessiewebb]

Where exactly? Then you have little idea of the use of the term 'anti-Christ'. Thank you I am up earlier than you - I don't bow to popular opinion in whatever guise it is presented.

Oh, I think you might want to rethink that popular opinion statement of yours. It is popular to pooh pooh Islamic takeovers and agendas. An entire left wing group's opinions are "popular" with folk like you. As is most of the media.

BTW, JLB provided a url. Did you look at it before you questioned his post? If not, here are a few more including his and I'm sure you can find many more if you look: http://frontpagemag.com/2012/raymond-ibrahim/muslim-persecution-of-christians-september-2012-2/
http://www.persecution.org/
http://www.meforum.org/3276/muslim-persecution-of-christians-may-2012
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/raymond-ibrahim-muslim-persecution-of-christians-march-2012.html
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news...christian-persecution-egypt-muslim/50759452/1