Sin, Sickness, and the Medical System

[Deborah13]

A lot of things changed when sin came into the world. By following your logic when a woman gives birth she should only have labor pains if she is living in sin.

Things are nothing like they were originally supposed to be. That does not mean that it can't be the Lord's will to use sickness for our good and His glory. When we are weak we are made strong by Him. When we go through trials we lean closer to Him. So yes, if someone is sick it is the Lord's will. If it was not the Lord's will they would not be sick, and saying anything other than that is denying that He has absolute sovereignty.

Yes, we can be made well by the Lord, but only if it is His will.

Oh Rachael, NO NO NO
I do not believe someone is sick (or not healed) because of their sin!!! That's another lie from the accuser SATAN.

Like Free said, We live in a FALLEN world.
But if one believes that their loving Father made them sick then they are saying that it is God's will and therefore in order to be in His will they must not do anything except pray in order to get well. No medcine, no doctors, etc. and that's just plain foolish!

 

[RachelKeeth]

But if one believes that their loving Father made them sick then they are saying that it is God's will and therefore in order to be in His will they must not do anything except pray in order to get well. No medcine, no doctors, etc. and that's just plain foolish!

That is flawed. One can believe that it is the Lord's will for them to go through a trial and still do things to help. I do treat my chronic illness, but that does not mean it is not the Lord's will for me to have it. It is like the story of the man in the flood, that God sent ways to save him but the man did not accept because he was waiting for something different. I can treat my Lyme, and I believe I should, but the Lord is in control of me getting better or not. The Lord has given me resources for treatment but that does not mean it is His time for me to be better yet, He might still be using this to help me grow (for my good) and for His glory.

 

[lesjude]

The bolded part is the most important thing. Jesus taught us that that is how we are to pray to the Father, so I do not see how one can set that against biblical faith, as though they are opposed. The simple fact is that sometimes God heals now, sometimes he heals later where some of those times will be in the next age. One simply cannot, and should not, go about saying that it is due to someone's lack of faith that they are not healed.

It seems you missed some reasons people do not receive healing. Please read the link:http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49100&highlight=
I assume you are talking about Matthew 6:10 which is simply praying for God to bless us with the anointing to do His will just as the early church prayed in Acts 4:23-31. God's will on healing is clear so why don't you go do it: Mark 16:17-18, Matthew 10:7-8 or believe for yourself and family: Psalm 103:1-6, Psalm 107:20, 1 Peter 2:24.

It should be said that God also works through the medical system and that is a legitimate way of having illness addressed and dealt with, showing no lack of faith in God.

You need to explain to me why you believe that Jesus gave His bride the third leading cause of death in the US ALL PREVENTABLE, to be stripped naked (the first thing they do) drugged (all are harmful to the body in ANY amount) and mutilated. If abortions are counted then they are by far #1 in cause of death.
Here are some things the Bible says:
Mark 5:25-26New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">25 </sup>Now a certain woman had a flow of blood for twelve years, <sup class="versenum">26 </sup>and had suffered many things from many physicians. She had spent all that she had and was no better, but rather grew worse.



2 Chronicles 16:12-13New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>And in the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa became diseased in his feet, and his malady was severe; yet in his disease he did not seek the Lord, but the physicians.

As for sickness, one cannot say that it is all cause by Satan or sin. We are continually exposed to chemicals and waves of all sorts throughout each and every day, not to mention what we eat. There are any number of things that cause sickness and death apart from Satan and sin. It's just life in a fallen world.

Satan brought sin into the world and as a result fallen men create the agents you speak of and use them wrongfully for their own carnal purposes. The same companies that produce the chemo drugs which kills more than cures also make many of the chemicals that cause cancer if the first place.

 

[Gordon]

That is flawed. One can believe that it is the Lord's will for them to go through a trial and still do things to help. I do treat my chronic illness, but that does not mean it is not the Lord's will for me to have it. It is like the story of the man in the flood, that God sent ways to save him but the man did not accept because he was waiting for something different. I can treat my Lyme, and I believe I should, but the Lord is in control of me getting better or not. The Lord has given me resources for treatment but that does not mean it is His time for me to be better yet, He might still be using this to help me grow (for my good) and for His glory.

I feel similar about my illness.

 

[Deborah13]

Jeremiah 32:35

King James Version (KJV)

<sup class="versenum">35 </sup>And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

 

[lesjude]

I feel similar about my illness.

Please explain to me why you believe that Jesus gave His bride the third leading cause of death in the US (ALL PREVENTABLE), to be stripped naked (the first thing they do) drugged (all are harmful to the body in ANY amount) and mutilated. If abortions are counted then they are by far #1 in cause of death.

 

[farouk]

I've lost the thread of the argument.

 

[RachelKeeth]

I am backing out of this discussion. It is not profitable or worth my time because clearly it is going nowhere and some people on here are being quite insulting.

 

[reba]

lesjude why not pray healing for these fellow members? And show them your faith.

 

[Gordon]

I am schizoaffective. My illness was a very humbling experience that brought me closer to God. I see a doctor and take medication. The meds have a lot of side effects but they stop my positive symptoms. I don't know the cause of my illness for sure but I know God could cure me and I attribute my recovery to God. So if I still have symptoms I don't see myself as going against the will of God by taking vitamins and meds. I am trying to get a job encouraging other mental health patients. I will recommend taking your medication to people. I was out of my mind and taking meds caused me to become stable. If I share my faith with other mentally ill people it would make sense that illness can bring people closer to God.

 

[Deborah13]

I am schizoaffective. My illness was a very humbling experience that brought me closer to God. I see a doctor and take medication. The meds have a lot of side effects but they stop my positive symptoms. I don't know the cause of my illness for sure but I know God could cure me and I attribute my recovery to God. So if I still have symptoms I don't see myself as going against the will of God by taking vitamins and meds. I am trying to get a job encouraging other mental health patients. I will recommend taking your medication to people. I was out of my mind and taking meds caused me to become stable. If I share my faith with other mentally ill people it would make sense that illness can bring people closer to God.

You should definitely continue what is working for you.
I had cancer 12 yrs ago, I did chemo and radiation.

 

[lesjude]

I am schizoaffective. My illness was a very humbling experience that brought me closer to God. I see a doctor and take medication. The meds have a lot of side effects but they stop my positive symptoms. I don't know the cause of my illness for sure but I know God could cure me and I attribute my recovery to God. So if I still have symptoms I don't see myself as going against the will of God by taking vitamins and meds. I am trying to get a job encouraging other mental health patients. I will recommend taking your medication to people. I was out of my mind and taking meds caused me to become stable. If I share my faith with other mentally ill people it would make sense that illness can bring people closer to God.

Here is what Jesus says to do for them:
Mark 16:17-18

New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">17 </sup>And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; <sup class="versenum">18 </sup>they<sup class="footnote" value="[a]">[a]</sup> will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
You do "believe" right?

 

[lesjude]

lesjude why not pray healing for these fellow members? And show them your faith.

My purpose is to have them believe for themselves Hebrews 11:6, then take the truth of divine healing to others, and do what Mark 16:17-18 says to do. If they have not received healing by grace through faith for themselves trusting Jesus ALONE they have nothing to give others. I do pray they will receive and act on the truth of divine healing for themselves and others.

 

[reba]

We have prayed for people in hospitals who were healed some were unsaved. We are believing to see more healing as Jesus gives us opportunities. We can only do what He directs us to do and ask/believe to do more. We have the same interest in publicity as Jesus did. It keeps us nameless and faceless which is the way we want it to stay. Jesus knows, those that are healed know, and we know which is all that is necessary. You can do the same. Only believe.

Seems different then this post. Subtly but different.

 

[lesjude]

Seems different then this post. Subtly but different.

We were able to minister Jesus to them in person, lay hands on them as the Bible says, and pray for them. My wife and I will be happy to minister to anyone who wishes by land line or Skype. My dime by land line anywhere in the US, its territories, or Canada. Skype is free. We have had people attend or services by Skype/web cam from Canada and South Africa. We have had people healed and delivered by telephone.

 

[farouk]

My purpose is to have them believe for themselves Hebrews 11:6, then take the truth of divine healing to others, and do what Mark 16:17-18 says to do. If they have not received healing by grace through faith for themselves trusting Jesus ALONE they have nothing to give others. I do pray they will receive and act on the truth of divine healing for themselves and others.

Wow, 'faith healing' as sole evidence of faith...

Sorry; I believe that the Lord can heal. But He also uses means, such a medicine, pharmacists and doctors.

Men and women of faith have for generations worked in the medical field. Missionaries have undergone all sorts of hardships in areas such as Africa in order to pursue medical missions.

 

[lesjude]

Wow, 'faith healing' as sole evidence of faith...

The subject bring addressed is physical healing. If you do not believe it you cannot receive it or bring that truth to others any more than you can tell people Jesus forgives sin if you do not believe yours are forgiven.

Sorry; I believe that the Lord can heal. But He also uses means, such a medicine, pharmacists and doctors.

Don't be sorry, at least not just yet. Please explain to me why you believe that Jesus gave His bride the third leading cause of death in the US (ALL PREVENTABLE DEATHS), to be stripped naked (the first thing they do) drugged (all are harmful to the body in ANY amount) and mutilated. If abortions are counted then they are by far #1 in cause of death.

Men and women of faith have for generations worked in the medical field. Missionaries have undergone all sorts of hardships in areas such as Africa in order to pursue medical missions.

How can any Christian without a snow flake mentality i.e no snowflake in an avalanche feels responsible, be involved in the murderous medical system based on carnal knowledge administering poison when Jesus says those who believe can and should do what Mark 16:17-18 says?
It cannot be justified by thinking the good they do outweighs the bad. That is a thought pattern which man received at the fall, not one of a mind renewed by the word and the Holy Spirit of Life.

 

[farouk]

How can any Christian without a snow flake mentality i.e no snowflake in an avalanche feels responsible, be involved in the murderous medical system based on carnal knowledge administering poison when Jesus says those who believe can and should do what Mark 16:17-18 says?
It cannot be justified by thinking the good they do outweighs the bad. That is a thought pattern which man received at the fall, not one of a mind renewed by the word and the Holy Spirit of Life.

So any Christian who is in the medical field is a murderer, and engages in a form of carnal knowledge?

Oh?

 

[Deborah13]

How can any Christian without a snow flake mentality i.e no snowflake in an avalanche feels responsible, be involved in the murderous medical system based on carnal knowledge administering poison when Jesus says those who believe can and should do what Mark 16:17-18 says?
It cannot be justified by thinking the good they do outweighs the bad. That is a thought pattern which man received at the fall, not one of a mind renewed by the word and the Holy Spirit of Life.

I praise God for the Christians that work in the medical field. There are sick people who do not know Jesus, there are sick people who need prayer. There are those in the medical fields that do believe in healing by laying on of hands and prayer, but if you are honest and you have prayed for very many people you know it that they are not always healed so...would you have them die??

 

[reba]

We were able to minister Jesus to them in person, lay hands on them as the Bible says, and pray for them. My wife and I will be happy to minister to anyone who wishes by land line or Skype. My dime by land line anywhere in the US, its territories, or Canada. Skype is free. We have had people attend or services by Skype/web cam from Canada and South Africa. We have had people healed and delivered by telephone.

Are you putting restriction on the power of God? Why not pray the prayer of faith here and now?

I do not doubt God's healing power. I do not doubt God gave my grandmother back her life here on earth for 30 more years... My dads hearing was restored

Total agreement Farouk

I believe that the Lord can heal. But He also uses means, such a medicine,
pharmacists and doctors.

Men and women of faith have for generations
worked in the medical field. Missionaries have undergone all sorts of hardships
in areas such as Africa in order to pursue medical missions.