Sin, Sickness, and the Medical System

[lesjude]

James 5:14-15

New International Version (NIV)

14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

Death, decay and sickness entered the world when the fall occured. You and I and everything else in this world is in a state of "decay".

If one sins then sickness can be allowed by God until one repents. Repentance is a gift which God is under no obligation to grant. What you are saying is anyone can sin and never be sick as a consequence and not have to repent to be healed. Paul is quite clear that sin can get one dead if they do not repent in 1 Corinthians 5:5. Acts 5:1-10 is quite clear as well. They were not even given an opportunity to repent. I guess you are saying Ananias and Sapphira just lacked faith.
It was SIN in 1 Corinthians 11:27-34 that caused some to be both sick and dead.
I will say if one is in sin faith for healing is not possible until repentance is sought and granted by God.
As for James 5 there certainly is a connection between sin and sickness. The sickness is not always because of sin but obviously may be from what is said. It is also obvious that God will grant the gift of repentance if sin is the reason and they will be healed.

 

[reba]

oh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Joh 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
Joh 9:6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
Joh 9:7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

 

[lesjude]

oh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Joh 9:4I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Joh 9:5As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
Joh 9:6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
Joh 9:7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

God did NOT make this man blind. It was Satan and Satan is given this power because of sin. It could have been any one of this man's ancestors that sinned. See Psalm 109 for an example of generational curses. Jesus did not say it was not anyone's sin, just not the parents sin. The disciples understood the connection between people's sins and sickness and Jesus did not say it was not true. Another example is premarital sex and unclean sex gives Satan rights to cause serious issues with child births of couples that engage in these sins.

 

[Mitspa]

If one sins then sickness can be allowed by God until one repents. Repentance is a gift which God is under no obligation to grant. What you are saying is anyone can sin and never be sick as a consequence and not
have to repent to be healed. Paul is quite clear that sin can get one dead if they do not repent in 1 Corinthians 5:5. Acts 5:1-10 is quite clear as well. They were not even given an opportunity to repent. I guess you are saying Ananias and Sapphira just lacked faith.
It was SIN in 1 Corinthians 11:27-34 that caused some to be both sick and dead.
I will say if one is in sin faith for healing is not possible until repentance/forgiveness is sought and granted by God.
As for James 5 there certainly is a connection between sin and sickness. The sickness is not always because of sin but obviously may be from what is said. It is also obvious that God will grant the gift of repentance if sin is the reason and they will be healed.

You seem to lack understanding? Paul in His authority turned over a man to satan, the man did not get sick when he sinned nor does the scriptures say that sickness came upon him.

So the correction of an Apostle upon the Chruch has little to do with the your doctrines.

The reason for weakness and sickness in the Church as descibed by Paul in 1 Cor 11 is because THEY DID NOT DISERN the Lords BODY! meaning that they did not see His Death and that He Bore our sickness in His Own Body. The communion with Him is for our HEALING to not see this? Is to reject His Body.

Just as your doctrines seem to do? That He bore our sins and sickness, but you seem to teach contrary doctrine?

And again in Acts 5 you seem to fail to see that these people were ALREADY sinners and attempted to play games in The House of God, a very different transgression than what you are trying to teach.

You cannot just ignore the gospel and make up doctrine as you like?

The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death.

Your doctrines are missing the truth of the gospel!

what you are trying to teach is the law of Moses!

 

[Mitspa]

God did NOT make this man blind. It was Satan and Satan is given this power because of sin. It could have been any one of this man's ancestors that sinned. See Psalm 109 for an example of generational curses. Jesus did not say it was not anyone's sin, just not the parents sin. The disciples understood the connection between people's sins and sickness and Jesus did not say it was not true. Another example is premarital sex and unclean sex gives Satan rights to cause serious issues with child births of couples that engage in these sins.

Again you seem to fail to see the point? and then go about to make up whatever you like?

Read the Book of Romans and you will see that all man became sinners because of Adam! Sin is in the flesh of ALL MEN, Christ was judged for this condition for those who accept His Sacrifice. For He became sin that we might be made the righteousness of God In Him. Sin has been judged in His Body, Thus those who do not "discern His Body" are sick and weak, and some fall to sleep.

Again you seem to leave the whole truth of the gospel, and attempt to put folks in bondage to the law of sin and death?

 

[reba]

God did NOT make this man blind. It was Satan and Satan is given this power because of sin. It could have been any one of this man's ancestors that sinned. See Psalm 109 for an example of generational curses. Jesus did not say it was not anyone's sin, just not the parents sin. The disciples understood the connection between people's sins and sickness and Jesus did not say it was not true. Another example is premarital sex and unclean sex gives Satan rights to cause serious issues with child births of couples that engage in these sins.

Wow! Do you realize you are contradicting Jesus.
John 9:3

 

[lesjude]

You seem to lack understanding? Paul in His authority turned over a man to satan, the man did not get sick when he sinned nor does the scriptures say that sickness came upon him.


So the correction of an Apostle upon the Chruch has little to do with the your doctrines.

1 Corinthians 5:5

New King James Version (NKJV)

5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


This is obviously sickness as a result of sin. It did not happen because he repented.

The reason for weakness and sickness in the Church as descibed by Paul in 1 Cor 11 is because THEY DID NOT DISERN the Lords BODY! meaning that they did not see His Death and that He Bore our sickness in His Own Body. The communion with Him is for our HEALING to not see this? Is to reject His Body.

If that is not sin what is? Many saved Christians do not believe healing is in the atonement and pay for this sin of unbelief with sickness and death.
It is also clear that the Corinthians were guilty of other sins as Paul makes clear and the result was sickness. These sins included drunkenness, divisions/jealously, idolatry in 1 Corinthians 10:22-22, unscriptural divorce and MUCH more!
1 Corinthians 11:31-34New King James Version (NKJV)

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

Just as your doctrines seem to do? That He bore our sins and sickness, but you seem to teach contrary doctrine?

You seem to believe antinomianism. We believe divine healing and live it.

And again in Acts 5 you seem to fail to see that these people were ALREADY sinners and attempted to play games in The House of God, a very different transgression than what you are trying to teach.

No, they were members of the Jerusalem church and Peter clearly said they fell victim to Satan.

You cannot just ignore the gospel and make up doctrine as you like?

I havn't but gave scripture that sin can result in sickness and death.

The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death.

Your doctrines are missing the truth of the gospel!

Only if you walk in the Holy Spirit and not in the flesh.

what you are trying to teach is the law of Moses!

Why are you advocating antinomianism? Clearly Matthew 5, 6 and 7 are the principles Christians are to live by grace through faith not to be saved but because they are saved with a new heart and Holy Spirit power. These are a MUCH higher standard than the law of Moses and Jesus clearly says it is sin if one rejects it. Matthew 7:21-29

 

[P31Woman]

God did NOT make this man blind. It was Satan and Satan is given this power because of sin. It could have been any one of this man's ancestors that sinned. See Psalm 109 for an example of generational curses. Jesus did not say it was not anyone's sin, just not the parents sin. The disciples understood the connection between people's sins and sickness and Jesus did not say it was not true. Another example is premarital sex and unclean sex gives Satan rights to cause serious issues with child births of couples that engage in these sins.

Ezekiel 18

18 The word of the Lord came to me:

2 “What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3 “As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. 4 For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

19 “Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

 

[Mitspa]

Why are you advocating antinomianism? Clearly Matthew 5, 6 and 7 are the principles Christians are to live by grace through faith not to be saved but because they are saved with a new heart and Holy Spirit power. These are a MUCH higher standard than the law of Moses and Jesus clearly says it is sin if one rejects it. Matthew 7:21-29

Does declaring that a believer walk in the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ, sound lawless to you?
That is directly dependent upon be set FREE form the law of sin and death. which is The law of Moses!

The higher standard "The Divine Nature" is a product and fruit of Grace not law. The only biblical power over the "flesh" and sin that dwells in all flesh is GRACE! so again you appear to fail to proclaim the gospel and to put folks under the bondage of their flesh? Why is that?

So nowhere in the New Testament is your doctrines shown nor can they be proved. You seem to take scripture out of context and at the end of your doctrine "do not discern the Lords Body" upon which sin was laid.

Are you advocating the law of sin and death? It sure does sound like it!

For sin will not have dominion over you because you are not under law but under grace!

So if you want to see people healed? make sure they have Grace to overcome sin and they will Go to God for themselves and be healed. Which is Gods true desire.

 

[lesjude]

Ezekiel 18

18 The word of the Lord came to me:

2 “What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3 “As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. 4 For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

19 “Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

The parents nor his ancestors were not doing what was just and right nor were VERY few in Israel for 100's of years so sin/Satan had a right to blind him from birth. The point is Jesus healed him.

The book of 1 and 2 Corinthians is loaded with sins which caused them to be sick and die as Paul clearly told them. Please explain miscarriage, birth defects, stillborns if it is not Satan being allowed to do this as a result of the parents' SIN.

The Holy Spirit will reveal any sins of the ancestors that result in a generational curses. Generational curses do NOT contradict the scripture you have given. You have to take the whole revelation of scripture. There are other curses mentioned in the Bible that follow bloodlines which are obvious exceptions to the scripture you have cited. The Bible does not contradict itself. Read Psalm 109 for the extent and seriousness of this bloodline curse. God gives grace in the NT, reveals what they are, and they are then easily broken in Jesus' name so the demons sent to carry them out can be sent to the pit.

 

[Mitspa]

The parents nor his ancestors were not doing what was just and right nor were VERY few in Israel for 100's of years so sin/Satan had a right to blind him from birth. The point is Jesus healed him.

The book of 1 and 2 Corinthians is loaded with sins which caused them to be sick and die as Paul clearly told them. Please explain miscarriage, birth defects, stillborns if it is not Satan being allowed to do this as a result of the parents' SIN.

The Holy Spirit will reveal any sins of the ancestors that result in a generational curses. Generational curses do NOT contradict the scripture you have given. You have to take the whole revelation of scripture. There are other curses mentioned in the Bible that follow bloodlines which are obvious exceptions to the scripture you have cited. The Bible does not contradict itself. Read Psalm 109 for the extent and seriousness of this bloodline curse. God gives grace in the NT, reveals what they are, and they are then easily broken in Jesus' name so the demons sent to carry them out can be sent to the pit.

First of all the law, OLD testament is not in effect for a Believer in Christ. Sin had not been Judged in the Body of Christ. So to look to The OLD testament and law to see the effects of sin on a "believer" is just religious blindess. For even unto this day their hearts and minds are blinded at the reading of the OLD testament. We are under a NEW COVENANT based upon the Blood and Body of Christ.

Also notice that when Paul dealt with those who walk CONTRARY to the Spirit, He NEVER put them back under law, but warned them that they would answer for the Spirit witin them.

He NEVER relates sickness to Anything other than not discerning the Lords Body. You make the conections and reject the rest of the gospel to approve your false doctrines.
For a believer, "sin" basically is walking in the flesh, life and healing is walking in the Spirit. The just SHALL LIVE by faith!

life is in faith, the law is not of faith!

Are you teaching law? and then trying to get folks to be healed by faith?

 

[lesjude]

Does declaring that a believer walk in the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ, sound lawless to you?
That is directly dependent upon be set FREE form the law of sin and death. which is The law of Moses!

I have not said anything different. However once one is free he has to continue to walk in the Spirit of Life. We persevere from our side and God preservers from His side.

The higher standard "The Divine Nature" is a product and fruit of Grace not law. The only biblical power over the "flesh" and sin that dwells in all flesh is GRACE! so again you appear to fail to proclaim the gospel and to put folks under the bondage of their flesh? Why is that?

I have not said anything different. However it is by grace through FAITH. If you do not believe by faith Matthew 5, 6 and 7 is the standard for Christian living before God and the world you will never bother availing yourself of the grace to live them. Righteousness is NEVER imputed to anyone apart form faith which Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:16-25 say. Grace also at times needs to be asked for Hebrews 4:14-16 and then one must often wait in FAITH until it comes.

So nowhere in the New Testament is your doctrines shown nor can they be proved. You seem to take scripture out of context and at the end of your doctrine "do not discern the Lords Body" upon which sin was laid.

Are you advocating the law of sin and death? It sure does sound like it! For sin will not have dominion over you because you are not under law but under grace!

You are clearly ignoring the scripture from Corinthians and Acts I have given.
I have taken nothing out of context but given sections from whole books.
No, I am advocating salvation as a walk of obedience, holiness, and the death of the self life by grace through faith.

So if you want to see people healed? make sure they have Grace to overcome sin and they will Go to God for themselves and be healed. Which is Gods true desire.

No one can give grace except God and it is totally free. Jesus healed many who were unsaved, one was seeking healing from occult/pagan sources, some did not even know who He was. We have prayed for the unsaved and seen Jesus heal them. Note it says in Mark 16:17-18 those who BELIEVE will heal and cast out demons not those who make sure others have grace to overcome sin. It does not say those who are delivered/healed have to have anything.
The ideal is for His disciples to come by grace through faith for ALL that Jesus promises.

 

[Mitspa]

No one can give grace except God and it is totally free. Jesus healed many who were unsaved, one was seeking healing from occult/pagan sources, some did not even know who He was. We have prayed for the unsaved and seen Jesus heal them. Note it says in Mark 16:17-18 those who BELIEVE will heal and cast out demons not those who make sure others have grace to overcome sin. It does not say those who are delivered/healed have to have anything.
The ideal is for His disciples to come by grace through faith for ALL that Jesus promises.

So you say healing is based upon grace? I agree!
You doctrines seem to make it based upon the moral ability of the flesh?
and I have answered your issues in Acts and 1 cor and reject your understanding of those scriptures. For one would need to reject the gospel to accept your limited veiw. I think you are missing the point of those scriptures and they have little to do with the doctrines you are trying to teach.

Jesus healed the sinner, He is the same today!
Full of Grace.

The reason the Chruch has no faith for healing is because they are yet under law. "for the law is not of faith"

Must have some rest but will answer your post in the AM

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

God did NOT make this man blind. It was Satan and Satan is given this power because of sin. It could have been any one of this man's ancestors that sinned.

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The whole chapter containing this story is dedicated to the teaching that it was not sin that made this man blind, but that he was made blind to show the glory of God. Best go read the story again.

 

[lesjude]

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The whole chapter containing this story is dedicated to the teaching that it was not sin that made this man blind, but that he was made blind to show the glory of God. Best go read the story again.

It seems you are charging God with making this man blind. Satan did it. The only reason he could was he is the author of sin and introduced it into the world. You are charging God with folly which is not prudent, nor do you seem to know who God is.
Acts 10:38

New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">38 </sup>how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

What part of this scripture is unclear?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

It seems you are charging God with making this man blind. Satan did it.

I'm going to quote the beginning of John 9 for you, and I pray you read it with intent to understand. Be very, very careful here, because you are treading on very thin ice, crediting God's work to Satan.

John 9 NASB
1 As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth.
2 And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind ?"
3 Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

​

As you had been warned before, you are contradicting Jesus' own words, and that is a dangerous undertaking at any time. Please prayerfully consider the information you have been given. God bless you.

 

[lesjude]

So you say healing is based upon grace? I agree!

Not at all. It is by grace through FAITH that one gets anything from God. It is grace by faith that unbelievers are healed by "...those who believe..." and those who have "freely received".

You doctrines seem to make it based upon the moral ability of the flesh?

No, it is the Holy Spirit in the believer that heals just as the Holy Spirit in Jesus was doing the works. He temporarily set aside using His Godly attributes.

and I have answered your issues in Acts and 1 cor and reject your understanding of those scriptures. For one would need to reject the gospel to accept your limited veiw. I think you are missing the point of those scriptures and they have little to do with the doctrines you are trying to teach

. No, you have not answered the issues of the sins Paul specifically referred to in Corinthians that caused sickness and death. I pointed to several more other than not knowing about healing in Christ's death which were implied in 1 Corinthians 11:27-34. The church in Corinth was quite carnal. Paul spent both epistles to them bringing correction and specified many sin issues including turning one over to Satan for sin he committed for the DESTRUCTION of his flesh which is getting sick/dying as a result of SIN. He repented and it did not happen.
As for Acts 5 their SIN resulted in instant death. They were members in good standing of the Jerusalem church. Further Peter had a word for Simon the sorcerer Acts 8:14-25 for his sin of BITTERNESS which can cause sickness. Further Peter said "perhaps" he would be forgiven. God decides who gets grace and who does not. It is NOT automatic.

Jesus healed the sinner, He is the same today!
Full of Grace.

The reason the Chruch has no faith for healing is because they are yet under law. "for the law is not of faith"

Must have some rest but will answer your post in the AM

It is my observation that the church has no faith because they are doing what is right in their own sight just as they did in the book of Judges which is LAWLESSNESS i.e. antinomianism.

The second reason, at least in the US is rebellious attitudes. Americans are under a principality of rebellion as this is the foundation of the nation i.e. the American Revolution. If you read Matthew 8:5-13 you will see why a respect and understanding of authority is important to having/exercising faith.

The third reason is most in the west have the Greek/Roman mind set which means they need evidence/proof before they believe much of anything. This is EXACTLY the opposite of Bible faith. This is manifest in the fact that most need evidence from "creation science" to believe Biblical creation. It is one of the first things Christians are to believe with NO sense evidence based on God's word alone Hebrews 11:1-3. They prove their lack of Bible faith by being defensive, suing school systems, and generally getting ugly with groups or institutions who advocate evilution. There is much more wrong with this Greek/Roman mindset as well including the pervasive belief among Christians in humanism.

Legalism is also a reason for no faith.

 

[lesjude]

I'm going to quote the beginning of John 9 for you, and I pray you read it with intent to understand. Be very, very careful here, because you are treading on very thin ice, crediting God's work to Satan.

John 9 NASB
1 As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth.
2 And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind ?"
3 Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

​

As you had been warned before, you are contradicting Jesus' own words, and that is a dangerous undertaking at any time. Please prayerfully consider the information you have been given. God bless you.

The work of God was the healing of the blindness which Satan caused, not making the man blind. Again what part of this is unclear?
Acts 10:38

New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">38 </sup>how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The work of God was the healing of the blindness which Satan caused, not making the man blind. Again what part of this is unclear?
Acts 10:38

Perfectly clear to me that it has nothing to do with John 9. Jesus' statement in John 9:3 discounts this event as being an instance in which He healed anyone oppressed by Satan, because He stated specifically that the blindness was not the result of sin. What part of that is unclear?

 

[seagullplayer]

Did Paul not have faith enough to be healed?

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2 Corinthians 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

What do you think Jesus is telling us here about sin and circumstance?

Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John chapter nine clearly tells us not to associate sin and illness, as several posters have pointed out very well.

We are His to be used as He sees fit;

Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

Does the Lord still heal bodily, yes whomever He will.

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

This nonsense that if you just have faith enough you will be healed is not Biblical.
Jesus asked that the cup pass from him in the garden, did He not have faith?

If these things where true, some would never die, there would be no believing poor. The Word tells us to take care of the "true widow", if they had only had faith enough they wouldn't be in that shape?

Cancer destroys a lot of flesh, but saves a lot of souls. Who's will is that?

I have heard from many people that have been hurt by this untrue doctrine.