Sin, Sickness, and the Medical System

[reba]

I praise God for the Christians that work in the medical field. There are sick people who do not know Jesus, there are sick people who need prayer. There are those in the medical fields that do believe in healing by laying on of hands and prayer, but if you are honest and you have prayed for very many people you know it that they are not always healed so...would you have them die??

Some what like do you feed the belly of the physically hungry or only feed their soul/spirit....

I was, agreeing with / responding to Deborah's post......

What was meant is like this.... Someone passes by a hungry person, say a child with the swollen belly of hunger, you say to that child Jesus loves you may your sins be forgiven..OR ; you say to he child here is a bowl of soup in the name of the Lord Jesus...


I am thinking there is a passage along this line ? any one know?

 

[lesjude]

I guess your answer, to whether all medical work is no good, means 'yes'.

I suppose similarly, by logical extension, you would say that, for instance, a young lady doing ear piercing at Claire's is the same as mutilation.

My opinion or yours does not matter. IF one is the temple of the Holy Spirit then it is quite clear what ear piercing is. The Bible also has a specific reference to this as well. However there are NO RULES. People should and will do all that is in their hearts.

 

[lesjude]

I was, agreeing with / responding to Deborah's post......

What was meant is like this.... Someone passes by a hungry person, say a child with the swollen belly of hunger, you say to that child Jesus loves you may your sins be forgiven..OR ; you say to he child here is a bowl of soup in the name of the Lord Jesus...


I am thinking there is a passage along this line ? any one know?

James 2:14-26. If you preach them the gospel as well then they will be able to believe for their needs based on Matthew 6:25-34, Matthew 6:11, and Psalm 37:25

 

[lesjude]

Lesjude if you want to pray for me I am more than willing to believe and I will find another career if healed. I live with people and I can't not take my meds. I know there was another person on here with illness who fully believed God would heal him and I am assuming he is in trouble because he is off his meds. I am getting baptized for the first time as an adult soon and I will do so with the belief I will be healed I don't see where in the Bible it says medication is evil or a lack of faith. I pray and repent and have people pray for me but since I am not yet healed I take my medication.

No Christian can or should tell you to not take drugs or to take them. Here is a link that explains Bible faith and how to exercise it. In short believing in the heart what God promises, speaking what the word says about you, and acting on that heart belief is Bible faith. It is not seeing is believing.
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49107&highlight=

 

[lesjude]

lesjude:

So do you really think that all pharmacies contain nothing but poison?

Not if they sell dark chocolate!

Do you think that all preventive or curative medicine is a serious error?

ALL drugs harm the human body in ANY amount.Anemia drugs cost taxpayers billions, but benefits were overstated, deadly effects overlooked
For years, a trio of anemia drugs known as Epogen, Procrit and Aranesp ranked among the best-selling prescription drugs in the United States, generating more than $8 billion a year for two companies, Amgen and Johnson & Johnson. But a Washington Post investigation shows that the benefits of the drugs — including “life satisfaction and happiness,†according to the FDA-approved label — had to be retracted and that potentially lethal side effects, such as cancer and strokes, were overlooked. Millions of patients were subjected to dangerous doses that might have had little advantage.
The multibillion-dollar rise and fall of the anemia drugs illustrates how the economic incentives embedded in U.S. health care can make the system not only inefficient, but potentially deadly. Through a well-funded research and lobbying campaign, the drugmakers won far-reaching approvals from the FDA. Doses tripled in size. The pharmaceutical companies conducted trials that missed the dangers and touted benefits that years later would be deemed unproven. The companies took more than a decade to fulfill their research commitments. And when bureaucrats tried to rein in the largest doses, a high-powered lobbying effort began until Congress forced the regulators to let the drugs flow.
Read more at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...at-what-cost/2012/07/19/gJQAX5yqwW_story.html

Death and Harm from Prescription Drugs
MORE. Death and Harm from Prescription Drugs. What happened to the Principal Precepts Taught in Medical School “First, do no harm? Award-winning medical ...
www.aaqm.org/Downloads/drugdeaths.pdf

Prescription Drug Dangers
Jun 17, 2010 ... Anyone taking a prescription drug will be harmed to some degree by these drug- caused diseases. Consider that disrupting even one cell ...
Prescription Drug Dangers

Aspirin Side Effects Can Be Serious-
There are many many aspirin side effects. Some of them are less harmful, but some of them are deadly. In fact, in the 1970's, aspirin side effects made it one of ...
http://www.side-effects-site.com/asp...e-effects.html

Statistics prove prescription drugs are
Jul 5, 2005 ... Statistics prove prescription drugs are 16400% more deadly than terrorists. ... According to the groundbreaking 2003 medical report Death by ...
Statistics prove prescription drugs are 16,400% more deadly than terrorists

Do you really think that surgery is massacring people?

Many are unnecessary, cripple/maim for life, leave "objects" inside people, cut off and out the wrong parts, etc. This is a "perfect gift" form above given to His bride? Really!

Do you really think that hygienic measures merely contaminate?

|Cleanliness is next to godliness?

Do you really make no distinction between mutilation on the one hand, and surgery, or ear piercing, etc., on the other?

(Just wondered.)

Do you make distinction between what God provides which is divine healing and what carnal fallen men provide by cutting up corpses, experimenting on the living with poison, and then calling it an act of God when they die taking no responsibility?

 

[lesjude]

The gospel is a process of growing in grace and knowledge of Christ. The renewed mind is not forced upon any but it a process of growth. From faith to faith and glory to glory.

Yes, it is but that does not "earn" one faith for healing. Here is an example.
A man in our fellowship who was saved a few weeks and in the military who had kidney disease believed God contrary to all his symptoms and the military's threats for healing. They sent him to a military hospital in DC who tested him and asked the doctors that sent him why they sent a man with healthy kidneys.

I find your witness and testimony of the medical field to have a sound of truth. But I suggest that medical training does not give one any weight in the truth of the gospel. All things in the Kingdom of God are subject to the gospel that Paul preached.
No one will have any place or bearing on the coming time and glory of the Church apart from being grounded upon the sure foundations laid by Paul.

I have no idea what you refer to when you mention "medical training".
The gospel is the whole Bible applied to and in believers by the Holy Spirit. It is NOT Paul's foundation but Christ. 1 Corinthians 3:11 and 2:Timothy 3:16-17.

So i suggest you submit these things you have seen and learned to the truth of Pauls epistles and the gospel, then your work will have Gods blessings and fulness. As a minister of gospel FIRST, your understanding and knowledge will be 100 fold. As I see your doctrines now, you seem to work against the truth you claim you want to make known to others?

No, I line up my beliefs and experience with the Bible as a whole 2 Timothy 3:16-17. To do otherwise is to invite deception.

 

[Grazer]

I've seen people get prayed for healing and nothing happens. I've heard stories about instant healings. If I get cancer, I'm praying then I'm down the hospital. You seem to have an aversion to doctors.

I wrote a piece which among other things looks at whether science is Gods modern miracle. http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49058

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[lesjude]

I've seen people get prayed for healing and nothing happens. I've heard stories about instant healings. If I get cancer, I'm praying then I'm down the hospital. You seem to have an aversion to doctors.

They kill over 200,000 people each year every year (preventable deaths!, murder the unborn, do NOT in any way "practice" true science, scoff at God, and most of their drugs do not cure but make people drug dependent and cause drug induced disease. The drugs that do "cure" cause serious issues and usually produce drug resistant disease.
Please read the OP AGAIN to find out why nothing happens.
People will always go to the physician they live closest to. Be it to you according to your faith.

I wrote a piece which among other things looks at whether science is Gods modern miracle. http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49058

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Medicine is from carnal unregenerate men and neither modern nor a miracle.

 

[Grazer]

Medicine is from carnal unregenerate men and neither modern nor a miracle.

So you've never taken paracetamol, had an immunisation jab, drank a cup of beechams, been for an xray?

Did you even read the post?

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[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Medicine is from carnal unregenerate men and neither modern nor a miracle.

Luke was a physician, you know. And he used medicine, such as it was then. Would God honor a "carnal, unregenerate man-made" practice by making one of its chief practitioners of that day an author of two of the key books in the New Testament?

 

[Grazer]

Luke was a physician, you know. And he used medicine, such as it was then. Would God honor a "carnal, unregenerate man-made" practice by making one of its chief practitioners of that day an author of two of the key books in the New Testament?

I completely forgot about Luke, great point

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[lesjude]

So you've never taken paracetamol, had an immunisation jab, drank a cup of beechams, been for an xray?

Did you even read the post?

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The answer is no to all since my salvation in '77. No one had to tell me to stop taking poison. I do not know what paracetamol is or beechams. http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=41786&highlight=
Which post?

 

[lesjude]

Luke was a physician, you know. And he used medicine, such as it was then. Would God honor a "carnal, unregenerate man-made" practice by making one of its chief practitioners of that day an author of two of the key books in the New Testament?

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49099&highlight=

 

[Mitspa]

No, I line up my beliefs and experience with the Bible as a whole 2 Timothy 3:16-17. To do otherwise is to invite deception.

I have judged your doctrines and they are not according to Pauls Gospel, BY WHICH ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED.
if any man preach another gospel other than that which Paul preached they are accused. So again your attempts to mix the law with the message of healing is a false message and you will not see the fullness of healing as long as your doctrines are contrary to the truth of the gospel. A blind man can only lead other blind men in circles. So you are not helping others on the forum understand and accept healing but are working against what you are claiming to defend.

 

[lesjude]

I have judged your doctrines and they are not according to Pauls Gospel, BY WHICH ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED.
if any man preach another gospel other than that which Paul preached they are accused. So again your attempts to mix the law with the message of healing is a false message and you will not see the fullness of healing as long as your doctrines are contrary to the truth of the gospel. A blind man can only lead other blind men in circles. So you are not helping others on the forum understand and accept healing but are working against what you are claiming to defend.

I am still not sure why you insist I believe people should be under the law of Moses or that I want to put them there.

 

[Mitspa]

I am still not sure why you insist I believe people should be under the law of Moses or that I want to put them there.

Well I can only judge by your doctrines. Most who teach law will never admit it, but will attempt to cover it by New Testament scripture that they take out of context. Do you believe that the Law of Moses can make a charge of sin against a believer in Christ? How do you see the law of moses as it relates to the healing purchased by the Body of Christ?
Can breaking one of the commandments of moses make a believer sick or keep them from being healed?

 

[lesjude]

Well I can only judge by your doctrines. Most who teach law will never admit it, but will attempt to cover it by New Testament scripture that they take out of context. Do you believe that the Law of Moses can make a charge of sin against a believer in Christ? How do you see the law of moses as it relates to the healing purchased by the Body of Christ?
Can breaking one of the commandments of moses make a believer sick or keep them from being healed?

No, to all three. I have not taken anything out of context when I gave you 1 and 2 Corinthians, Acts 5, and Matthew 7:21-27 in regard to sin and sickness/death. You choose to discount what these scriptures say to make me into a legalist. Have at it.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Lesjude:

Hi, I've been lurking in this thread for a little while, and I agree where you are coming from. The bible is quite clear about healing. And indeed the focus I would say in biblical healing is Christ (Yahshua's) death with his stripes we are healed. This is of course what I believe the bread in "communion" stands for, just as the wine is the shed blood for sins. That's basic 101 Christianity, not to mention the other verses you pointed out as well.

If you read my comments in the health section, you can see that I basically stay away from doctors. They are good for trauma medicine, e.g. if you break a bone and they set it or rearrange it somehow to heal. Same if I have a broken pipe in my house I'll call a plumber who knows more than I do.

But for preventive medicine, it's basically a joke (and 70% of all healthcare costs are for these types of drugs or associated tests) which is why you see me joke and poke fun at "numbers" medicines that do nothing, nor help you live longer (as a matter of fact, probably hastens death) such as cholesterol pills, BP pills, diabetes pills, depression pills, and whatnot.

It's best to eat what Yahweh commanded for good health in the Bible (if you can find such unaltered foods today) and supplements (which is also just concentrated food). Most people are diseased because they are lacking something, if not spiritually, nutritionally as well, but will go on pills long before the other two are addressed. That's as nonsensical as ripping one's fuel injector apart after the car stalled because they did not put gas in it. But that is exactly what is happening in the medical world.

 

[Deborah13]

No, to all three. I have not taken anything out of context when I gave you 1 and 2 Corinthians, Acts 5, and Matthew 7:21-27 in regard to sin and sickness/death. You choose to discount what these scriptures say to make me into a legalist. Have at it.

I know what would be helpful to me to understand what you believe, as well as others I believe, would be to take the scriptures that you are using and explain what you interpret them as saying. Listing scripture and giving a short statement just doesn't do it for me. I still don't understand. And as I was most graciously corrected in another thread tonight, I need to ask and give you a chance to explain your beliefs and not to assume or jump to conclusions. Would you do this please in simple terms as possible? Thank you.

 

[lesjude]

Lesjude:

Hi, I've been lurking in this thread for a little while, and I agree where you are coming from. The bible is quite clear about healing. And indeed the focus I would say in biblical healing is Christ (Yahshua's) death with his stripes we are healed. This is of course what I believe the bread in "communion" stands for, just as the wine is the shed blood for sins. That's basic 101 Christianity, not to mention the other verses you pointed out as well.

If you read my comments in the health section, you can see that I basically stay away from doctors. They are good for trauma medicine, e.g. if you break a bone and they set it or rearrange it somehow to heal. Same if I have a broken pipe in my house I'll call a plumber who knows more than I do.

But for preventive medicine, it's basically a joke (and 70% of all healthcare costs are for these types of drugs or associated tests) which is why you see me joke and poke fun at "numbers" medicines that do nothing, nor help you live longer (as a matter of fact, probably hastens death) such as cholesterol pills, BP pills, diabetes pills, depression pills, and whatnot.

It's best to eat what Yahweh commanded for good health in the Bible (if you can find such unaltered foods today) and supplements (which is also just concentrated food). Most people are diseased because they are lacking something, if not spiritually, nutritionally as well, but will go on pills long before the other two are addressed. That's as nonsensical as ripping one's fuel injector apart after the car stalled because they did not put gas in it. But that is exactly what is happening in the medical world.

If you read my comments in the health section, you can see that I basically stay away from doctors. They are good for trauma medicine, e.g. if you break a bone and they set it or rearrange it somehow to heal. Same if I have a broken pipe in my house I'll call a plumber who knows more than I do.

Jesus sets and heals broken bones. He has done it several times in our family.