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Skeptical...

Edward

Edward

2024 Supporter
I heard some different stuff the other day. He made it sound plausible, yet I remain skeptical. So before saying what it was, I'd appreciate it if my Brothers & Sisters here would shine what they know, to a question first:

How many people in history (The Word) were born without the condemnation of the original sin upon them (if any), and who?
 
Adam and Eve were both created w/o a fallen nature. Jesus is the only person who was ever "born" w/o a fallen nature.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING :)
 
Edward said:
How many people in history (The Word) were born without the condemnation of the original sin upon them (if any), and who?
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Brother Edward, the only thing I can think of that might suggest there were children born prior to Adam is in Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Did Eve have children before Cain without sorrow?
And then there was Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived. Where did she come from?.
 
Eugene said:
Brother Edward, the only thing I can think of that might suggest there were children born prior to Adam is in Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Did Eve have children before Cain without sorrow?
And then there was Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived. Where did she come from?.
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I've always thought that the first kids were Cain & Able, then Seth. But they had to be born with the marker of sin upon them because, well how it reads, is that the children were after the fall so they were born into sin.

Adam & Eve weren't, because they were both fashioned by the hand of God directly so we're not born into sin
 
Eugene said:
Well I reckon if anyone would believe the Catholic theory of the Immaculate Conception of Mary, they might also think Mormonism is correct also in believing Satan was the brother of Jesus. :shrug
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(Well it's not my fault that there's only Catholic radio stations in this town! Lol :angry)

Don't worry Brother, I'm not convertin' catholic lol. But I'd never heard this before and kinda see what they were trying to say, that, Jesus, Mary, and John the Baptist were all born without the genetic marker in their DNA of sin.

That Jesus had to be of a pure blood line to be born...and accomplished it by, Mary being clean and no earthly father...and that somehow John the Baptist was because he lept in the womb when Elizabeth first saw Mary, which means the Holy Spirit was in him and that's why he didn't get the marker.. ???

So naturally I thought of yous guys lol
 
I can see Jesus being born not tainted with sin...even perhaps Mary since there was no earthly father, but John the Baptist? How why?
For all have sinned...all means all last time I checked lol.
 
I don't know about John the Baptist, but Mary is excluded from the whole "all have sinned" deal in RCC dogma/theology. I don't know how...I think its more tradition than Scripture in that case.
 
I just wondered if anyone else had ever heard this. I see it is around and apparently deeply rooted in the rcc dogma...so I can let loose of that curiosity now, lol.

I thought that the RCC didn't believe in Jesus and His role as Savior, but they're Jesus Jesus Jesus on the air?

Ah well, pray that I can find a Christian station on me radio:)
 
Edward said:
I just wondered if anyone else had ever heard this. I see it is around and apparently deeply rooted in the rcc dogma...so I can let loose of that curiosity now, lol.

I thought that the RCC didn't believe in Jesus and His role as Savior, but they're Jesus Jesus Jesus on the air?

Ah well, pray that I can find a Christian station on me radio:)
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88.1 & 89.1 out of Grove City and Delaware; you can also catch the same line up on American Family Radio app. I especially listen to Dan Celia on Financial Issues.
 
Discussion of Catholic doctrine is limited and will only be allowed in the One on One Debate Forum and End Times forum only. RCC content in the End Times forum should relate to End Times beliefs. Do not start new topics elsewhere or sway existing threads toward a discussion or debate that is may be viewed as ‘Catholic’ in nature. ADMIN
 
Edward said:
That's what was said, so you've heard this before, excellent.

Actually they said that 3 people were, including Jesus and Mary...and one more...??
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John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from birth.
Doesn't necessarily mean he didn't have the capacity to sin, just that he had divine power not to, thus setting him apart for a divine mission and purpose.
 
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Edward said:
That Jesus had to be of a pure blood line to be born...and accomplished it by, Mary being clean and no earthly father...
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Biblically, a person is born in the image of his father. Since Jesus' father is God himself, he is the image of God, not Adam. But all the rest of us are born in the fallen image of Adam:

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man (Adam), He made him in the likeness of God. 2He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.

3When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth." (Genesis 5:1-3 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

"...just as sin entered the world through one man (Adam), and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people (having been born in his image)..." (Romans 5:12 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)​
 
Edward said:
I heard some different stuff the other day. He made it sound plausible, yet I remain skeptical. So before saying what it was, I'd appreciate it if my Brothers & Sisters here would shine what they know, to a question first:

How many people in history (The Word) were born without the condemnation of the original sin upon them (if any), and who?
Click to expand...
Hi Edward,
St Worn 2 got the right answer.

Excluding Adam and Eve who were created without original sin, ONLY Jesus was born without original sin.
You said something important about the RCC and I'd like to clear it up because there are so many misconceptions on both sides of the isle.

In post no,. 13 you make the following two comments:

(1) I just wondered if anyone else had ever heard this. I see it is around and apparently deeply rooted in the rcc dogma...so I can let loose of that curiosity now, lol.

(2) I thought that the RCC didn't believe in Jesus and His role as Savior, but they're Jesus Jesus Jesus on the air?

In your first paragraph, I wonder what dogma you can let loose of? In RC dogma, Jesus was born without the stain or original sin and thus his mother was also born without original sin, because how could a person with sin carry the Son of God? This is not biblical but was reasoned out in this way. This would bring up the question of WHEN did Mary become sinless at birth? Did God decide this BEFORE her conception, AT her conception or immediately AFTER conception? Theologians actually debate this. It seems to me that straying from the written word does bring up much debate. I've never heard it said that John the Baptist was born without sin because he had the Holy Spirit before birth. Jethro Bodine answers this in his post no. 18.

I'm very much interested in your second paragraph. Why did you ever think what you do?
Jesus is central to the RCC. He is absolutely believed to be our Savior. They believe that you must have faith first to be saved, and THEN come good works as God would have you do. They believe that one must come to know Jesus personally and be born from above. They believe in the work of the Holy Spirit.

If you wanted to read something beautiful, you should check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph nos.144 to 164, especially paragraph no.161.

I'd like to say that although I am not Catholic, I do know the theology well.

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PART 1 of 3
 
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