So confused and I hurt.

[manimal2878]

Hey guys, I need help.

As you know I started posting questions a few weeks ago and trying to understand things.

I am so frustrated and want to give up. I know that I would be considered very liberal in my views of things, but I don't feel that really matters.

I just don't believe in God, nothing I do seems to make me believe. I feel now that if there is a God he has turned his back on me.

WHy would he do this? Why hasn't he given me the belief that so many of you have that seems to comfort you so much in your lives.

I will admit that my struggle has gained urgancy due to a girl I am deeply in love with, and while I have these feelings for me and she says she does not feel for me in the same way. I am positive it is because of my beliefs and not because she doesn't care for me, because we are best of friends and still spend a lot of time together.

I would do anything for her, and If I could just flip a belief switch and never look back at it in order to be with her I would do it.

I have even started to pray. It seems to me though to be more of a cry out into the darkness, but I have begun to do it nonetheless. I usually say, Something to the effect of: God if you are out there help me overcome my unbelief!", help me to understand, help me to understand why I hurt. Help me to understand why the bible seems so confusing to me, help me to understand your message if it is really in there somewhere because it doesn't seem to be your word but, that of mans. Please God Help me.

Please do any of you have any advice? What am I doing wrong, why does God seem to have left me out here on my own? What else can I do?

 

[Tofuy]

do you define god or does god define you?

 

[manimal2878]

do you define god or does god define you?

I don't understand the question.

I guess I would have to say I don't know. I guess I would have to define God since I can't easily say I think he is out there.

But if he is he has defined me and created me in an image as he saw fit for his ineffable plan, which is very Calvinist and rejects free will in my opinion, but nonetheless i am of his design.

Either way is there something you can tell me to help based on either answer?

 

[Cure of Ars]

I think that you are trying to force things. You can’t force relationships. It also sounds like you want to believe God, but you want him on your terms. You are making your mind the measure of all things and you are right that God is not going to fit your preconceived ideas about God. It does not work this way. We need to come to God with the trust of a child. Once we have this trust, even without understanding, then God can start conforming us to his truth.

Here are some prayers that I have used when I have had to struggle to understand God and his ways.

"I do believe, help my unbelief!" (Mark 9:24)


MY LORD GOD, I have no idea where I am going.
I do not see the road ahead of me.
I cannot know for certain where it will end.
Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so.
But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you.
And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing.
I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire.
And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road though I may know nothing about it.
Therefore will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death.
I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.

- Thomas Merton, "Thoughts in Solitude"

 

[Rick W]

Please forgive me my bluntness and I certainly have no intention to offend but If the girl you have feelings for was out of the picture would you still pursue God?

 

[manimal2878]

THanks for your response Cure of Ars.

Yes I do recognize the appeal for help with unbelief as shown in Mark, that is why I used similar wording in my own prayer.

Unfortunately I cannot come to the lord as a child, as I am now 27. I have always thought this is a problem because whatever you are told as a child you tend to believe and it is not always an honest belief. I believed in Santa Claus as a child and that was a lie. If I remained as a child in that belief would that be reasonable? I doubt anybody would say yes. So we do have to apply reason in our beliefs to make sure they are based on truth.

I get frustrated when it seems not many christians have had to struggle like this everything is so easy for them and I'm on the outside of this thing. I can't see the fairness in that. How do I trust what I don't understand?

Also could you say that Paul had come to his belief as a child? No, God had to slap him off his horse and have Jesus speak with him directly before he could believe, if we are to trust the bible anyway. I guess I am asking God to slap some sense into me as well, but so far he seems to have not slapped me hard enough.

 

[manimal2878]

Please forgive me my bluntness and I certainly have no intention to offend but If the girl you have feelings for was out of the picture would you still pursue God?

I have my whole life.

But I guess meeting her makes the cruelty of it all seem more real to me now.

I use to skip classes in College and go and read religious books in the library because I never had access to so much information like that before and I thought I would finally find an answer somewhere in there.

 

[Rick W]

I guess I am asking God to slap some sense into me as well, but so far he seems to have not slapped me hard enough.

Are you pursuing the love of God or the love for the girl? Again, if you did not know her would you still pursue God?

 

[antitox]

I get frustrated when it seems not many christians have had to struggle like this everything is so easy for them and I'm on the outside of this thing. I can't see the fairness in that. How do I trust what I don't understand?

I just don't see this where I live. Others tend to see things more from your perspective. I think we see others as having it better when that really isn't the scenario. Young people most of the time just try to look as though they are doing good in front of others and it may seem that way, but at 50 yrs old, I've found out differently.

 

[Gary]

Hi manimal2878

My thoughts....

God rewards an honest seeker. But we have to come before the Lord with a broken heart; as a sinner.

Salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8)..... but we need to be repentant, we need to surrender and have a longing to obey.

Jesus promises that "I will give you rest" and that He tells us to "take My yoke upon you." (Matthew 11:28-29)

So salvation is a gift but the faith we have is repulsed by sin.

Remember how the sermon on the mount starts? "Blessed are the poor in spirit..." (Matthew 5:3)

So approach God .. "God, be merciful on me, a sinner!" (Luke 18:13)

Repentance is the key/core to saving faith. Start there.

Regards
Gary

 

[Relic]

manimal2878,

See the truth in what everyone here is saying to you. There is heartfelt concern for your well being. It is good that you have courage to reach out and seek resolve.

Yes, you must let God define you and not define God by your own standards. You must take on the standards of the Holy Word. It is OF God, and will help build Godly character.

If you aren't serious you won't get results. It appears to me, from the way in which you have expressed yourself, that you have not progressed in your studies enough. You need to not give up but to press on. Philippians 3:9-14
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.



Do you read the bible and see how consequences play out in life, be them good or of harm? do you read the bible and see how the "love" of God is there for our protection and guidance?

Or do you just read the bible as if it were some fantasy story that means nothing?

Do you read the bible with the intent to learn?
Do you actually "study" the words in the bible?
Do you actually take it seriously enough , or do you just skim through it and only read parts of it once in a while?

Scripture. Words of wisdom. books of wisdom and guidance. Book of history and the lessons learned and not learned by people of those times.

Are you taking it all for granted, or not?

You don't just become a Christians without studying the scripture.

Get into some serious study and your faith will come by hearing and hearing by the word. That means you study and learn. There are good and bad examples of life in the bible. We are to learn from them and follow the way of Christ Jesus.

You must want to learn about truth and consequences in life. truth from the word, and consequences from all actions taken in life, be them good or not.

Read and study, then your confusion will be diminished.

The Holy Word does not confuse. The lies of Satan do. Learn to know the difference and learn how to discern the spirits in life.

It's a struggle to OVERCOME, the things of this world. When we live in the ways of this world we will suffer the consequences of the things of the world. Jesus came to save us from the sins of the world through following Him. John 3:17 - For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Study and get serious about it.

And please know this, when you get to this part in the bible.... when Jesus says to pluck out your eye or cut off your hand, it doesn't mean it literally! It means to stop looking at the thing that causes you to sin. and to turn toward his holy word to distract you from it. And when he says to cut your hand off, it means to not touch the thing that causes you to sin. To stop right there and realize what you are doing with your mind and body. Are you using it for committing sin or for doing good?

Get serious in your study. Learn the lessons of life. You have two choices. choose life, that which is OF God, or choose death, that which destroys and is OF Satan's ways. Choose the things that lead to everlasting life.

If you don't learn the difference between what is OF God and what is OF destruction, then you will be confused.

Godly ways, builds integrity and good character. The ways and whiles of the devil destroys and demeans it. Learn the scripture to know the message of Jesus.

Make up your mind. School yourself wisely and stay away from the unGodly. Get serious. Read and learn the scripture in the bible. Stick with the King James. http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=142495#142495 Other versions of the bible distract from the hebrew and greek meanings. But some people may argue over what I believe about that.

Here is a good study aide you can read and listen at the same time:
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html


and here is a good study aide for your scripture research and commentaries, topical studies, etc. For instance, you can type in the word confusion in the search space and see how many times that word occurs in the bible. check it out: http://studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=confusion&section=0&translation=kjv&oq=&sr=1

or you can type in the word save and see how many times it occurs in the bible and do a study on the word save: http://studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=save&section=0&translation=kjv&oq=confusion&new=1&sr=1

But don't let those topical studies drag you away from reading the "books" chapter by chapter, book by book. You also have to learn of the many other things to consider when you study the bible: http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=143022#143022

And in regards to praying to God, We must pray IN ACCORDANCE TO HIS HOLY WORD. Prayer is not asking for selfish purposes, We must be IN accordance to His Good Will for us. If we pray amiss, how do you expect good to come of "it"? We need to know the Good Will of
God, and ask according to it. If you want to learn how to pray in accordance to the Word of God.... here are some links and postings that might help you get started: http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=12978&highlight= But please do use your bible as your main means of prayer. The Lords prayer is how Jesus taught how to pray. Matthew 6:9-15 Also, King David's books of Psalm is prayer. Psalm 119:1-150 is a wonderful one to ponder. Psalm 27:1-14 Just READ and STUDY your bible over and over again, and your faith and understanding will grow
Find a good bible study group in a good bible believing church. If they don't use the bible in your church, then find one that does. Always compare what someone tells you with what truth is in the bible. Never trust what is said outside of knowing the difference between what is holy and what is not. Learn to discern the spirit(s) .

Stay connected to Jesus. Don't' lose sight of His Holy Word for you. He speaks directly to you. Read the bible as if it were a letter to you. Speaking to you. Some of it will speak directly to your situation at a specific time. And some of it will just teach you about how certain behavior is corrupt and how certain behavior is sanctified as being pure and approved of the HOLY spirit. It's all in the spirit of things to come and things past. We need to carry the HOLY spirit forward. Read Ephesians 6:11-21 to help you stand your ground in the battle of life.

I could go on forever..... Excuse the long post. I sometimes can't express any other way. :-?
But you can only learn to walk in the spirit IF you SEEK after God on your own accord. We all need to learn how to walk with Jesus and not against or away from Him. Be IN His presence instead of running or ignoring it. We need to Seek and Knock on the doors that lead to HIM. Not on doors that lead us away from Him. Learn to discern the spirit that is in front of you and trying to influence you. The spiritual world is what you need to learn about.

Hope this helps that confusion change to wisdom. STUDY and keep yourself approved. 2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Don't let confusion and discouragement stop you from seeking after the wisdom and knowledge of God. Be IN the Holy spirit , flee from the spirit that is not of the Holy Godly spirit, and you will grow. To be "IN" Christ Jesus. Learn to know what that means to you and for you.


Read the book of John, Ephesians, Hebrews, James, Galatians, Corinthians, etc. ... Those books should help you initially, and so on.... never stop reading and learning as you grow (being IN the Spirit OF Christ Jesus) , it will change you life. You will not want to have sin in your life once you are continually IN the Holy Spirit. Keep the focus and you will see.

.

 

[manimal2878]

I guess I am asking God to slap some sense into me as well, but so far he seems to have not slapped me hard enough.

Are you pursuing the love of God or the love for the girl? Again, if you did not know her would you still pursue God?

Yes I have been my whole life.

 

[manimal2878]

THank you Gary and Relic.

I guess I expect something immediate and perhaps I need to realize things these things need time.

Again thank you.

 

[Cure of Ars]

THanks for your response Cure of Ars.

NP lets just hope I help more than hinder.

Yes I do recognize the appeal for help with unbelief as shown in Mark, that is why I used similar wording in my own prayer.

I think the difference between your prayer and the one in Mark is that there is some level of commitment to faith in God. “God if you are out there†is kind of like trying to jump of a diving board with you feet firmly planted on the diving board. Faith is an all or nothing matter. It requirers risk and submission to God.

Unfortunately I cannot come to the lord as a child, as I am now 27. I have always thought this is a problem because whatever you are told as a child you tend to believe and it is not always an honest belief. I believed in Santa Claus as a child and that was a lie. If I remained as a child in that belief would that be reasonable? I doubt anybody would say yes. So we do have to apply reason in our beliefs to make sure they are based on truth.

You are misunderstand what I am saying. I am not telling you to join a Peter Panthism type of religion where you act childish. What I am asking is totally reasonable because it is conforming to reality. God is the creator and we are his creatures. This is the reality and if we place ourselves as God or even equal to God then we are the ones who are living a lie. The reality is we are dependent on God like Children. Jesus said the following;

"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." (Luke 18:15-17)

I am also not telling you to be unreasoable or never question. I am just pointing out that the starting point cannot be your mind or your understanding. The foundation is to submit with childlike trust with faith in God. In the words of St. Augustine, "I believe, in order to understand; and I understand, the better to believe."

It’s kind of like looking at stain glass windows of a great Cathedral from the outside. The windows are really drab from the outside looking in. But if you look from the inside out then the true beauity and reality of the stain glass windows is realized.

I get frustrated when it seems not many christians have had to struggle like this everything is so easy for them and I'm on the outside of this thing. I can't see the fairness in that. How do I trust what I don't understand?

Faith is a grace (a gift) and you can’t make God give it to you. To say it is not fair is silly because no one earns or deserves the grace of faith. God can give his gifts to who he pleases. I would guess that God wants to give you this grace but you are not willing to give up control and trust like a child.

Here is a quote that might be helpful.

"Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and ‘makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c3a1.htm#142

I would suggest that you read the setion on faith here;

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c3a1.htm#142

Also could you say that Paul had come to his belief as a child? No, God had to slap him off his horse and have Jesus speak with him directly before he could believe, if we are to trust the bible anyway. I guess I am asking God to slap some sense into me as well, but so far he seems to have not slapped me hard enough.

Sure Paul came to belief like a child. Again you are trying to play God and have God preform for you so that you can believe. That is not how it usually works.

 

[videocrafter]

... I expect something immediate and perhaps I need to realize things these things need time.

NO! It doesn't take time! But it does take belief in Jesus Christ. You must believe in his death and resurrection and accept him as Lord and Savior. In 2 Corinthians 6:2 Paul preaches "I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation." (NIV) Jesus said "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16 NIV) That's all you have to do, don't waste time trying to figure it all out, TIME is NOT on your side! Trust in Christ and the rest will come in His time!

 

[manimal2878]

Thanks again Arc you bring up very good points.

 

[manimal2878]

... I expect something immediate and perhaps I need to realize things these things need time.

NO! It doesn't take time! But it does take belief in Jesus Christ. You must believe in his death and resurrection and accept him as Lord and Savior. In 2 Corinthians 6:2 Paul preaches "I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation." (NIV) Jesus said "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16 NIV) That's all you have to do, don't waste time trying to figure it all out, TIME is NOT on your side! Trust in Christ and the rest will come in His time!

Ok fine, I accept your answer, but how do I make myself believe, you see that is the problem, believing it. Because right now I don't and I don't know how to make myself.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Coming to Jesus as a child doesn't mean you're an actual child. I have a two year old who cannot do things for herself. She is completely dependant on me for her life. When you come to Jesus as a child you come to him knowing that you can't save yourself and you need him to save you.

I think that you're problem with your belief is that you haven't completly repented. Not saying you're not sorry of past sins or whatever but in my mind, repentance means 'to turn around'. Basically it's doing a 360 turn from your former life and choosing to give your life over to Christ. Have you done this yet? Are you willing to drop all your preconceived ideas, and lifestyle and just totally put your life into Jesus hands and come to him with the full knowledge that you can't save yourself?

To be honest I think you're a lot closer than you think. You say you don't believe in God yet you're here saying you want to believe and really wanting God to help you with it. How can you ask God to help you when you don't think he is real? I think deep down you feel it in your heart that he's real. You just need to tap into that and run with it for all it's worth.

Seriously, if you believed in God what would you have to lose?

 

[Relic]

manimal2878 wrote:
... I expect something immediate and perhaps I need to realize things these things need time.

videocrafter wrote:
NO! It doesn't take time! But it does take belief in Jesus Christ. You must believe in his death and resurrection and accept him as Lord and Savior. In 2 Corinthians 6:2 Paul preaches "I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation." (NIV) Jesus said "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16 NIV) That's all you have to do, don't waste time trying to figure it all out, TIME is NOT on your side! Trust in Christ and the rest will come in His time!

Christians, Why do you think it is only a belief and no effort on your part?

Yes, of course we are to trust in Christ. and yes, of course we are in God's favor NOW IF we believe on Jesus.
In the previous post, the reference to time was to the effect of learning and growing IN the wisdom and relationship with Christ Jesus.

By saying it doesn't take time, and time is not on your side, only confuses the issue at hand. It does take time. And giving of our time in study and in our walk with the Lord, is important.

TIME is NOT on your side! ...

What does that mean? :-?
Time is NOT on your side? Where did you get that from? :o


2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Believe, yes. Trust In Him, yes. We have God's favor when we do according to His will. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word. We need to apply the Word of God into our lives , study it, speak it and live it. The results come in God's DUE TIME. Not in our own time.

It takes effort and discipline. That is part of carrying our cross. Being of the carnal mind we need to carry our own cross and follow Jesus.

Action. It doesn't come without application or effort on our part.

Otherwise, our free will would not exist. To give of our own free will is a sacrifice to the carnal being. That is part of what carrying our own cross entails, a giving of our own will, freely. That doesn't mean effortlessly. That is why we ask Jesus to help us through tribulation, and to help us to overcome temptations that come our way. That is salvation from sin. It's His sacrifice for us. He becomes the sacrifice. We give it all to him, he takes it and saves us from sin. Our giving is not without effort. It is a cross to bear.

Don't think being a Christian is only a belief system without effort and sacrifice on our part. It's not a free ride in which we think we don't' have to worry whether we sin. We need to WORK on not sinning, we need to ask Jesus to help us overcome and resist the whiles of the devil. We are a work in progress! We can't continue on sinning without consequence. God didn't create life without consequence of action taken. Good or not good, there are consequences to our actions. Since we are of the sin nature, being in the carnal flesh.... We need Jesus to rescue us daily. We need to take up our cross daily and walk with Jesus, to follow Him. Since when is it okay to sin and think nothing of it because you think sin is of no avail any longer? If You sin you are not IN Christ, but strayed away from HIM. You then need to repent, to turn away from that sin and ask for forgiveness and to go and sin no more.


Yes, being a Christian takes time and effort, and lots of it!

Lu 9:23 - And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.


.

 

[Gary]

Repent

I agree with Relic's points.... but I do think that what she says are the SECOND steps to saving faith and growth in your Christian walk. i.e sanctification (-here-).

But the first steps are REPENTANCE (-here-) and REGENERATION ... being "born again" (-here-).

As I said:

So approach God .. "God, be merciful on me, a sinner!" (Luke 18:13)

Repentance is the key/core to saving faith. Start there.

The Gospel according to Jesus is... "He came to call sinners to repentance."

"I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32)

When our Lord first began to preach, the first words he said were "Repent... " (Matthew 4:17). When Peter preached at Pentecost and the crown asked him what they should do, he said "Repent..." (Acts 2:38). John's message was "Repent..." (Matthew 3:2). When the apostles preached, they called for sinners to "Repent.... " (Acts 3:19). Paul did the same. He called on sinners to "Repent..." (Acts 20:21, Acts 26:20).

Repent and turn to God. Matthew knew he was a sinner. Jesus said "Follow Me." It meant that Matthew had to give up ALL he was doing. He could not go back. He left ALL that was evil and wrong (the illegal Roman tax collecting by a Jew) and followed Christ. (Matthew 9:9).

Jesus explains why he eats with sinners... "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Matthew 9:12-13)

Are you prepared to come to Jesus as a sinner?

:-? :-?