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So what About This You All

it is not abuse, she just got her tail kicked. I did not see anything that would have caused her death.

Lewis, I see where u are coming from and I see everybody's else's point too. This father was beyond ticked off and his anger was getting the best of him, ie the obscentaties he yelled at his daughter.

I truly believe that spankings, beatings or whatever you want to call them, that are done in this type of rage can cross the line into abuse. But this is my dilema with this video. If this man were truly raging ond out of control like so many have said, this girl would have been beat for 7 minutes. In fact she got hit several times....none of which add up to a full 7 minutes. The father did more threatening than actual follow up. Because if he truly went off, he would have actually punched her in her face and beat her wherever he pleased. However, he seems to only want to hit her on her behind and when she does not comply he aims for her legs. There have been enough abuse cases in the news where we see that truly deviant parents hit their kids wherever they please and aren't too concerned where the belt lands.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have taken a chill pill. And none of us know how often this type of beating was done and how often he was out of control. According to the world's standards, to even hit your kids once is considered out of control...which I considered a crock of crap. But I know good parents who have had to kick their kids tails because nothing else got thru to them. At times did they seem out of control?...yes. But would I consider them abusive bad parents?....absolutely not! Did it make a world of difference in how their kids behaved?...yes.

Is spanking for every parent?...no. It certainly is not necessary for every kid. But I don't want the governement telling me how to discipline my child. I am sure that the few times I've taken a belt to my kids could have been videotapped and I could be made to seem like a monster to the world. Sometimes the perception is worse than the reality, imho.

Dee
 
it is not abuse, she just got her tail kicked. I did not see anything that would have caused her death.

Putting someone on the "rack" will not necessarily kill them. How about "water boarding" or cutting someones fingers off. Where do you draw the line??
 
Lewis, I see where u are coming from and I see everybody's else's point too. This father was beyond ticked off and his anger was getting the best of him, ie the obscentaties he yelled at his daughter.

I truly believe that spankings, beatings or whatever you want to call them, that are done in this type of rage can cross the line into abuse. But this is my dilema with this video. If this man were truly raging ond out of control like so many have said, this girl would have been beat for 7 minutes. In fact she got hit several times....none of which add up to a full 7 minutes. The father did more threatening than actual follow up. Because if he truly went off, he would have actually punched her in her face and beat her wherever he pleased. However, he seems to only want to hit her on her behind and when she does not comply he aims for her legs. There have been enough abuse cases in the news where we see that truly deviant parents hit their kids wherever they please and aren't too concerned where the belt lands.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have taken a chill pill. And none of us know how often this type of beating was done and how often he was out of control. According to the world's standards, to even hit your kids once is considered out of control...which I considered a crock of crap. But I know good parents who have had to kick their kids tails because nothing else got thru to them. At times did they seem out of control?...yes. But would I consider them abusive bad parents?....absolutely not! Did it make a world of difference in how their kids behaved?...yes.

Is spanking for every parent?...no. It certainly is not necessary for every kid. But I don't want the governement telling me how to discipline my child. I am sure that the few times I've taken a belt to my kids could have been videotapped and I could be made to seem like a monster to the world. Sometimes the perception is worse than the reality, imho.

Dee

Sort of like saying, "are you gonna believe me, or your "lying" eyes...
 
Sort of like saying, "are you gonna believe me, or your "lying" eyes...

No its sorta like when you get in an arguement with your spouse or someone your dating and to everyone else the "fight" was awful but to the two people involved they kiss and make up and get on with their business. The "fight" wasn't as bad to them as maybe everyone else perceived it.

There is no nice way to hit someone with a belt. It always seems terrible when you are a witness. But for those of us who have been spanked, we survived and as bad as I felt, I wouldn't turn my parents in to the cops. It was deep but it wasn't that deep.

If this girl felt it was that deep then she, at 16, with the presence of mind to tape it, could have done something about it then. What has happened at 23 that causes her to now want her dad to receive help?

Dee
 
No its sorta like when you get in an arguement with your spouse or someone your dating and to everyone else the "fight" was awful but to the two people involved they kiss and make up and get on with their business. The "fight" wasn't as bad to them as maybe everyone else perceived it.

There is no nice way to hit someone with a belt. It always seems terrible when you are a witness. But for those of us who have been spanked, we survived and as bad as I felt, I wouldn't turn my parents in to the cops. It was deep but it wasn't that deep.

If this girl felt it was that deep then she, at 16, with the presence of mind to tape it, could have done something about it then. What has happened at 23 that causes her to now want her dad to receive help?

Dee

Either way, this father was not "disciplining" his daughter to help her, quite the contrary, he was acting out of "blind" anger within himself. This discipline was for his benefit not hers... And the "obscene" language was inexcusable, in front of these two females...
 
Either way, this father was not "disciplining" his daughter to help her, quite the contrary, he was acting out of "blind" anger within himself. This discipline was for his benefit not hers... And the "obscene" language was inexcusable, in front of these two females...

I think I stated up front that discipling your child when you are that angry can lead to abuse. But its your opinion that his anger was "blind." If it were blind would he have been concerned about just hitting her legs?...or would he have walked out of the room? Read some of these horrific cases of child abuse and then let me know if this man should have his career ruined over this beating. Yes...many people would be thrown in jail today if this is the standard for abuse.

The discipline was for the girls benefit, even if you think he went overboard. I bet you she never downloaded illegal material again..... And no, he should have not been cussing at his kids....that still does not put him in the rank of those true abusers out there who terrorize their children, imho.

But of course, this is just based on this one observation. We don't know what went on in his home. He could just be one of those domineering a-hole type of husbands that feel that they need to rule the roost. Hard to live with, yes. Always seem to turn a mountain out of a mole hill...could be. May always think that a hit or smack is the answer...possible. Abuser, not necessarily. Jerk quite possibly.

Dee
 
What I would have called abuse is him using his fist. Now if he slapped her face once that would have been okay too. As long as it was one time in this incident. Now if he uses a belt and it is on her behind, no problem. 99% of parents that discipline their kids are angry. Even when the Holy Father disciplines us He is angry at us. Now what I don't like is this guy cussing her as he gave her the beating. She just got a ole down home USA southern style tail kicking that's all.
 
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I think I stated up front that discipling your child when you are that angry can lead to abuse. But its your opinion that his anger was "blind." If it were blind would he have been concerned about just hitting her legs?...or would he have walked out of the room? Read some of these horrific cases of child abuse and then let me know if this man should have his career ruined over this beating. Yes...many people would be thrown in jail today if this is the standard for abuse.

The discipline was for the girls benefit, even if you think he went overboard. I bet you she never downloaded illegal material again..... And no, he should have not been cussing at his kids....that still does not put him in the rank of those true abusers out there who terrorize their children, imho.

But of course, this is just based on this one observation. We don't know what went on in his home. He could just be one of those domineering a-hole type of husbands that feel that they need to rule the roost. Hard to live with, yes. Always seem to turn a mountain out of a mole hill...could be. May always think that a hit or smack is the answer...possible. Abuser, not necessarily. Jerk quite possibly.

Dee

What we have here, is "degrees of abuse" What that father did may not be considered "first degree" abuse, but certainly falls under the umbrella of abuse...
 
What we have here, is "degrees of abuse" What that father did may not be considered "first degree" abuse, but certainly falls under the umbrella of abuse...

Like I said before there is no polite way to spank. Perhaps all forms of physical discipline should be outlawed. Kids should be encouraged to call the police on any parent that dares to strike them. Imagine, parents all over the country being hauled off to jail. Talk about prison overcrowding......:chin

Dee
 
Like I said before there is no polite way to spank. Perhaps all forms of physical discipline should be outlawed. Kids should be encouraged to call the police on any parent that dares to strike them. Imagine, parents all over the country being hauled off to jail. Talk about prison overcrowding......:chin

Dee

Let's not, throw the baby out with the bathwater OK? The Bible says something about, Spare the rod and spoil the child... But, discipline should be a tool used as a learning process for the child, not a "torture session" perpetrated by a sadistic and angry person... It's better to have some "perspective" in this area...
 
Let's not, throw the baby out with the bathwater OK? The Bible says something about, Spare the rod and spoil the child... But, discipline should be a tool used as a learning process for the child, not a "torture session" perpetrated by a sadistic and angry person... It's better to have some "perspective" in this area...

We may have differences of opinon but that does not mean that my perspective is any more flawed than yours. This man was uneccesarily vulgar and was thoroughly upset. Does he wish he could take it back....probably. But giving your kid 17 licks (i've counted them) for stealing and lying about it does not imho constitute abuse or sadistion. Poor judgement...maybe. But for those who want to make this abuse, this judge could have it her 5 times with the belt and their feelings toward spanking would remain the same. They don't care what the bible says about spanking. In today's world it is wrong and we are moving towards a time when kids will be calling the cops and getting their parents locked up. That's just the reality of where things are headed.

Dee
 
We may have differences of opinon but that does not mean that my perspective is any more flawed than yours. This man was uneccesarily vulgar and was thoroughly upset. Does he wish he could take it back....probably. But giving your kid 17 licks (i've counted them) for stealing and lying about it does not imho constitute abuse or sadistion. Poor judgement...maybe. But for those who want to make this abuse, this judge could have it her 5 times with the belt and their feelings toward spanking would remain the same. They don't care what the bible says about spanking. In today's world it is wrong and we are moving towards a time when kids will be calling the cops and getting their parents locked up. That's just the reality of where things are headed.

Dee

This judge is a, family court judge and should lose his position because of this...And I sincerely hope he does... What he did was " heinous" and I'm glad it was brought into light, so that he can be dealt with appropriately.. We're supposed to live in a "civilized" society and this kind of behavior should not be tolerated...
 
We may have differences of opinon but that does not mean that my perspective is any more flawed than yours. This man was uneccesarily vulgar and was thoroughly upset. Does he wish he could take it back....probably. But giving your kid 17 licks (i've counted them) for stealing and lying about it does not imho constitute abuse or sadistion. Poor judgement...maybe. But for those who want to make this abuse, this judge could have it her 5 times with the belt and their feelings toward spanking would remain the same. They don't care what the bible says about spanking. In today's world it is wrong and we are moving towards a time when kids will be calling the cops and getting their parents locked up. That's just the reality of where things are headed.

Dee
while i do think he went to far but that is the facts. kids have more rights then the parents these days. just look at the genx. geny and the degeneration that has occured.

higher crime and so forth. no thanks dr spock.
 
Let's not, throw the baby out with the bathwater OK? The Bible says something about, Spare the rod and spoil the child... But, discipline should be a tool used as a learning process for the child, not a "torture session" perpetrated by a sadistic and angry person... It's better to have some "perspective" in this area...
I agree - perspective.

FYI my state in Australia has outlawed spanking your child if it leaves a mark on the skin after 5 seconds.
 
This judge is a, family court judge and should lose his position because of this...And I sincerely hope he does... What he did was " heinous" and I'm glad it was brought into light, so that he can be dealt with appropriately.. We're supposed to live in a "civilized" society and this kind of behavior should not be tolerated...

Whatever happens in the dark comes out into the light, right? May all areas of our lives come out into the light and be judged by society likewise. :nod

Dee
 
<big><big>WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT...</big></big>​
<big><big>SPANKING CHILDREN?</big></big>​
Proverbs 13:24(KJV): "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."
Proverbs 13:24(AMP): "He who spares his rod (of discipline) hates his son, but he who loves him diligently disciplines and punishes him early."

The practical wisdom found in these verses in the book of Proverbs covers the subject of child rearing and corporal punishment. Children who are not properly disciplined, are among the most miserable of children. Unruly and spoiled children are not the blessings that the Bible says they should be to parents. When a child is given no boundaries, they feel lost. If they have been given boundaries, yet those boundaries are not maintained, it causes great harm to a child, as they will not only be in dangerous territory, they will also lose respect for authority. This is where we find so many of the children and youth of today. They are rebels, who not only disrespect authority, but openly defy all authority figures such as teachers, policemen, clergy, and their own parents. The blame rests upon the parents of these children, if they have not heeded the advice given in this and other verses found in Proverbs.

This brings us to the subject of how we should discipline a child who disobeys the rules. There has been much debate on the subject of corporal punishment (the spanking of a child). Corporal punishment simply means bodily punishment while the definition of spank in Webster's Dictionary is: 1.) to strike with something flat, as the open hand, especially on the buttocks, as in punishment. 2.) to move along swiftly or smartly, a smack given in spanking. This is what the Bible says about spanking:
Proverbs 22:15: "Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him."
Proverbs 23:13-14: "Withold not discipline from the child, for if you strike and punish him with the (reed-like) rod, he will not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

First of all, discipline of children should begin at an early age, whenever a child begins to defy the parent. Remember the old saying, "He who spares the rod, spoils the child." Notice that the Bible says that all children have foolishness in their hearts. The Bible definition of a fool means one who is a rebel, so this is saying that all children have rebellion in them and when it surfaces, it is our duty as parents to drive it out of them. We are to do this by punishing them with a whack on the buttocks with a small reed-like rod. This rod could be a switch from a fruit tree branch or a willow tree branch or a small wooden spoon. It is not to be a large heavy rod or anything that would cause permanent physical damage. The purpose of a spanking is not to cause any lasting bodily harm, but to cause spiritual correction. A spanking should be swift and cause short lived pain that makes a point. That point is that the small pain they feel now will prevent them from feeling great pain by the act they are committing, which could cause them loss of their lives in some cases. (For instance, if a child tries to run across the street, they could be run over and killed.)

Some people say that all spanking is child abuse, but this is totally wrong. The real abuse to the child is not to spank them when they need correction. Of course, some parents, who themselves are out of control, can abuse their children by beating them in angry rages. This is child abuse, however, it does not justify doing away with spanking children if it is done properly, and for the right reasons. Parents who beat their children, need help themselves. They are sinful people and they not only will abuse their children by beating them, but will hurt them in other ways as well. Many times, these same children are left to go hungry and uncared for. They have no love. These kind of homes need the love of Christ so that the whole family can be healed. We are not to spank our children with uncontrolled anger, and thus hand out unjust punishment.

Proverbs 19:18(AMP): "Discipline your son while there is hope, but do not (indulge your angry resentments by undue chastisements and) set yourself to his ruin."
Proverbs 22:6: "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
Godly discipline will keep children from being dysfunctional later in life. We are told as Christian parents to train our children in the ways of the Lord and when he grows up, he will not depart from that training. Notice it says "train" not "teach." Many parents teach their children right from wrong, but have failed to "train" them to obey. Spanking is part of the training. Many parents yell and threaten their children, but never follow through with the proper punishment and therefore their children get their own way. A disciplined child will bring great delight to parents, while the child left alone will bring shame to the home.

Proverbs 29:15 &17(AMP):
15 The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left undisciplined brings his mother to shame.
17 Correct your son, and he will give you rest; yes, he will give delight to your heart.
Ephesians 6:1-4:
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
<big><big>WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT...</big></big>​
<big><big>SPANKING CHILDREN?</big></big>​
Proverbs 13:24(KJV): "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."
Proverbs 13:24(AMP): "He who spares his rod (of discipline) hates his son, but he who loves him diligently disciplines and punishes him early."

The practical wisdom found in these verses in the book of Proverbs covers the subject of child rearing and corporal punishment. Children who are not properly disciplined, are among the most miserable of children. Unruly and spoiled children are not the blessings that the Bible says they should be to parents. When a child is given no boundaries, they feel lost. If they have been given boundaries, yet those boundaries are not maintained, it causes great harm to a child, as they will not only be in dangerous territory, they will also lose respect for authority. This is where we find so many of the children and youth of today. They are rebels, who not only disrespect authority, but openly defy all authority figures such as teachers, policemen, clergy, and their own parents. The blame rests upon the parents of these children, if they have not heeded the advice given in this and other verses found in Proverbs.

This brings us to the subject of how we should discipline a child who disobeys the rules. There has been much debate on the subject of corporal punishment (the spanking of a child). Corporal punishment simply means bodily punishment while the definition of spank in Webster's Dictionary is: 1.) to strike with something flat, as the open hand, especially on the buttocks, as in punishment. 2.) to move along swiftly or smartly, a smack given in spanking. This is what the Bible says about spanking:
Proverbs 22:15: "Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him."
Proverbs 23:13-14: "Withold not discipline from the child, for if you strike and punish him with the (reed-like) rod, he will not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

First of all, discipline of children should begin at an early age, whenever a child begins to defy the parent. Remember the old saying, "He who spares the rod, spoils the child." Notice that the Bible says that all children have foolishness in their hearts. The Bible definition of a fool means one who is a rebel, so this is saying that all children have rebellion in them and when it surfaces, it is our duty as parents to drive it out of them. We are to do this by punishing them with a whack on the buttocks with a small reed-like rod. This rod could be a switch from a fruit tree branch or a willow tree branch or a small wooden spoon. It is not to be a large heavy rod or anything that would cause permanent physical damage. The purpose of a spanking is not to cause any lasting bodily harm, but to cause spiritual correction. A spanking should be swift and cause short lived pain that makes a point. That point is that the small pain they feel now will prevent them from feeling great pain by the act they are committing, which could cause them loss of their lives in some cases. (For instance, if a child tries to run across the street, they could be run over and killed.)

Some people say that all spanking is child abuse, but this is totally wrong. The real abuse to the child is not to spank them when they need correction. Of course, some parents, who themselves are out of control, can abuse their children by beating them in angry rages. This is child abuse, however, it does not justify doing away with spanking children if it is done properly, and for the right reasons. Parents who beat their children, need help themselves. They are sinful people and they not only will abuse their children by beating them, but will hurt them in other ways as well. Many times, these same children are left to go hungry and uncared for. They have no love. These kind of homes need the love of Christ so that the whole family can be healed. We are not to spank our children with uncontrolled anger, and thus hand out unjust punishment.

Proverbs 19:18(AMP): "Discipline your son while there is hope, but do not (indulge your angry resentments by undue chastisements and) set yourself to his ruin."
Proverbs 22:6: "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
Godly discipline will keep children from being dysfunctional later in life. We are told as Christian parents to train our children in the ways of the Lord and when he grows up, he will not depart from that training. Notice it says "train" not "teach." Many parents teach their children right from wrong, but have failed to "train" them to obey. Spanking is part of the training. Many parents yell and threaten their children, but never follow through with the proper punishment and therefore their children get their own way. A disciplined child will bring great delight to parents, while the child left alone will bring shame to the home.

Proverbs 29:15 &17(AMP):
15 The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left undisciplined brings his mother to shame.
17 Correct your son, and he will give you rest; yes, he will give delight to your heart.
Ephesians 6:1-4:
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
And I agree with this. I just think the corporal punishment in the video was not a Biblical example, and was child abuse. That father (from what we see in the video) has some anger issues.
 
Are we supposed to beat our children with a smile on our faces :p:):);):adore:twolove:love2:whip
 
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