Soaking Prayer - Biblical or New Age?

[Deborah13]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is denying Jesus Christ. Christians can not lose their salvation. We are called to test the spirits. I do *not* deny the power or the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I had never heard of this and did some reading both yea and nay.
Remember that satan cannot create anything but he will do his best to imitate and corrupt what the Lord intends for good. There will always be charlatans and false teachers and there always be people who fall for their tricks. Some of these have taken the term 'soaking prayer' and used it to their advantage. I do not like the term 'soaking prayer' but that does not mean that all people use the term in the same way or even mean the same thing when they use it.
The blog I read last night was very informative. Some were saying some very weird things that they had been taught, very New Age mysticism, and had rejected it. I agreed with them, I would have, too. However, there were others who do this in groups and alone and agreed with them,too. They said these people were taught something that was never intended, such as 'calling down angels', going into a trace state, listening to CD's while they slept about 'calling down angels, etc.."
The others described something very different, both in intent and outcome. What they said is nothing new. It is no more then blocking out the world and it's interferences and worshiping the Lord, with all your heart, soul, and mind. To meditate on His Word and be still before Him and listen.
That's what I have find so far.

 

[YosefHayim]

First we should be careful to note that calling this “sin against the Holy Spirit” is misleading, as Dr Shepherd himself points out. What Jesus actually says is that “whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven” (Mark 3:29). Clearly “sin” and “blasphemy” are different since in Matthew 12:31 Jesus refers to “sin and blasphemy” separately. So what Jesus is talking about here is not merely sin but blasphemy. The Greek blasphe?mia means “vilification (especially against God): – blasphemy, evil speaking, railing.”2 So here the properly termed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit seems to refer to speaking evilly about God; not merely as a one-time utterance but as an active and ongoing opposition. It is to witness God’s goodness and call it (and continue to call it) evil.

What specific evil was spoken about God in Matthew 12 (Mark 3)?

In context, Jesus has been performing miracles, and the Pharisees, who have witnessed these miracles, claim that Jesus did these good works “by the power of Beelzebub [Satan]” (Matthew 12:24). Thus these Pharisees denied the power and authority of the Holy Spirit and attribute it instead to Satan! These Pharisees, “who, though they knew the miracles of Christ were wrought by the Spirit of God, yet maliciously and obstinately imputed them to the devil, with a view to obscure the glory of Christ, and indulge their own wicked passions and resentments against him.”3

This reinforces what we already know: That someone who has consciously rejected God cannot be saved, because they have rejected their only path to salvation: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) Since the power of God’s Holy Spirit is the means by which we are saved, a person who rejects Him cannot be saved.

Biblical scholar Ron Rhodes explains:

The Holy Spirit brings conviction upon people and leads their hearts to repentance, making people open and receptive to salvation in Jesus Christ. So the one who blasphemes the Holy Spirit effectively separates himself from the only one who can lead him on the path to salvation in Jesus Christ.4


What does this mean for the Christian who is worried that they have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

1. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not merely a certain sin or cursing God in a moment of anger or misery. Nor is it merely saying or writing the words “I blaspheme the Holy Spirit.” Any sin can be forgiven if a person honestly confesses, repents, and asks God for forgiveness, as Jesus Himself says in this passage: “people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy” (Matthew 12:31) and as we read in 1 John 1:9: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”
2. Only someone who has totally closed themselves off from God’s love and marvelous offer of grace could be so calloused as to continually and unrepentantly call God and His glorious works “evil”.
3. Thus, if you are worried that you have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, you could not possibly have done it, for someone whose heart is so calloused would not be at all concerned about such a thing! Dr Shepherd comments that a person’s “apprehension is proof positive that the Holy Spirit hasn’t been blasphemed and the power of God maligned.”5

Doubt or weak faith are not the same as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Dr Shepherd concludes:

The weakest faith; the most faltering discipleship; the most hesitant, doubt-filled following; honest doubt and genuine perplexity; all of this our Lord sees and notes and helps. None of it will he scorn or dismiss. And none of it must we ever, ever suggest to be anything approaching the blasphemy against the Spirit. Weak faith he strengthens; faltering faith he makes resolute; genuine perplexity he addresses. … He has nothing but compassion and help for all who cry that their struggle for faith is just that: a struggle.6

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin. No one can come to Jesus Christ if the reject the calling of the spirit. The Pharisees rejected the Holy Spirit and their hardness in heart was shown through their further need for a sign.

Consider two examples in Scripture of people who initially rejected the Spirit’s testimony to Christ, but later accepted it. Jesus’ brother James grew up with Jesus, was present during the inauguration of Jesus’ miracle working ministry (John 2:11–12), and was probably present at this miracle (Matt. 12:46), but James thought that Jesus was, at the least, confused or mentally unstable (John 7:3–5). Later, however, James became a leader of the Christian church (Gal. 1:19). Likewise, Paul not only initially rejected the gospel of Christ, he sought to imprison and kill those who actively proclaimed it (Acts 8:1; 9:1). Later, however, Paul became an apostle. Therefore, it is clear the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit isn’t simply failing to acknowledge the Spirit’s testimony to Christ. Rather, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit occurs when one knowingly, unambiguously, intentionally, and permanently rejects the Holy Spirit’s testimony to Jesus. New Testament professor Darrell L. Bock sums it up well: “The blasphemy of the Spirit might be regarded as the by-product of rejecting the Son of Man. The difference between blaspheming the Son of Man and blaspheming the Spirit is that blasphemy of the Son of Man is an instant rejection, while blasphemy of the Spirit is a permanent rejection….Once the Spirit’s testimony about God’s work through Jesus is permanently refused, then nothing can be forgiven, since God’s plan has been rejected.”4

http://www.equip.org/articles/what-is-the-unpardonable-sin/#christian-books-1
powertochange.com/experience/spiritual-growth/unforgivablesin/

A born again Christian can not blaspheme the holy ghost.

 

[YosefHayim]

I had never heard of this and did some reading both yea and nay.
Remember that satan cannot create anything but he will do his best to imitate and corrupt what the Lord intends for good. There will always be charlatans and false teachers and there always be people who fall for their tricks. Some of these have taken the term 'soaking prayer' and used it to their advantage. I do not like the term 'soaking prayer' but that does not mean that all people use the term in the same way or even mean the same thing when they use it.
The blog I read last night was very informative. Some were saying some very weird things that they had been taught, very New Age mysticism, and had rejected it. I agreed with them, I would have, too. However, there were others who do this in groups and alone and agreed with them,too. They said these people were taught something that was never intended, such as 'calling down angels', going into a trace state, listening to CD's while they slept about 'calling down angels, etc.."
The others described something very different, both in intent and outcome. What they said is nothing new. It is no more then blocking out the world and it's interferences and worshiping the Lord, with all your heart, soul, and mind. To meditate on His Word and be still before Him and listen.
That's what I have find so far.

I agree with this. I am not saying that people who practice this are not born again. But God calls Christians to back away from pagan practices. Soaking strongly resembles easter meditation, and I think this is a lot different than scripture which says "Comune with your heart upon your bed", and all the verses that talk about meditating on the inspired scriptures.

 

[JLB]

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin. No one can come to Jesus Christ if the reject the calling of the spirit. The Pharisees rejected the Holy Spirit and their hardness in heart was shown through their further need for a sign.



http://www.equip.org/articles/what-is-the-unpardonable-sin/#christian-books-1
powertochange.com/experience/spiritual-growth/unforgivablesin/

A born again Christian can not blaspheme the holy ghost.

They called the Holy Spirit a demon!

That is blasphemy.

22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, "He has Beelzebub," and, "By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons."

28 "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"-- 30 because they said, "He has an unclean spirit." Mark 3:22, 28-29

Please read what is written in scripture.

Please read what is clearly stated by Jesus.

Because they said -
"He has Beelzebub," and, "By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons."


he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, because they said, "He has an unclean spirit.


Can you please just read what Jesus said, plainly?

The "because" is why they will never be forgiven... because they said, "He has an unclean spirit.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

I agree with this. I am not saying that people who practice this are not born again. But God calls Christians to back away from pagan practices. Soaking strongly resembles easter meditation, and I think this is a lot different than scripture which says "Comune with your heart upon your bed", and all the verses that talk about meditating on the inspired scriptures.

My point was that "not all called 'soaking prayer" IS like eastern meditation according to what some people were describing that they do. They described worship and prayer, NOT a state of being in a trance like state, which is like eastern meditation practices.
When I read this blog I saw both using the term 'soaking prayer' but describing very different things.
So what I am saying is that maybe we shouldn't lump it all together just because of the term that is being used.

 

[jasonc]

I don't even want to watch that then. what is often called the old time pentacostal church service with a night of prayer and god showing up isn't unknown to me. that is something I need to do more often. a quiet time , or a loud time all in order as led by the holy ghost. god forbid I wake up with a smile and bouncing as I read meters. funny when you all have prayed I can see the difference in how fast I move and how easy I find meters and the time I get done.

 

[Willie T]

Look at it this way, Joe...... You call yourself a Christian, do you not?

Well, so do at least 30 groups of weird fanatics and wackos. So............................ what does that mean to a person who reasons as you seem to?

It means YOU are obviously exactly the same as every one of those other weirdo's. Yes, according to your logic, there is no difference between them and you. After all, you BOTH use the same words to describe yourselves.

And, "No", we do not have to look at how you worship... because we have seen videos of and read about how THEY worship. As you showed us, THAT is sufficient to make any conclusion about you that we choose.

Are you getting an inkling of where your thinking is going off track yet?

 

[Deborah13]

I don't even want to watch that then. what is often called the old time pentacostal church service with a night of prayer and god showing up isn't unknown to me. that is something I need to do more often. a quiet time , or a loud time all in order as led by the holy ghost. god forbid I wake up with a smile and bouncing as I read meters. funny when you all have prayed I can see the difference in how fast I move and how easy I find meters and the time I get done.

By the way Jason, I have something I'd like you to pray about. Maybe you remember that the Lord put it on my heart to pray for the youth in my tiny community. Some nice things have been happening with the three little churches coming together to put on a youth conference with outside people coming in to put it on. The church Lexy and Jake attend is the church I would call home congregation, they are Pentecostal Holiness, just a little mission church. Anyway for the last month or so there have been five high school girls that are attending regularly. Would you pray for the Lord to touch the high school boys so that they would find a church home where they will hear the Gospel? Thanks.

 

[YosefHayim]

Look at it this way, Joe...... You call yourself a Christian, do you not?

Well, so do at least 30 groups of weird fanatics and wackos. So............................ what does that mean to a person who reasons as you seem to?

It means YOU are obviously exactly the same as every one of those other weirdo's. Yes, according to your logic, there is no difference between them and you. After all, you BOTH use the same words to describe yourselves.

And, "No", we do not have to look at how you worship... because we have seen videos of and read about how THEY worship. As you showed us, THAT is sufficient to make any conclusion about you that we choose.

Are you getting an inkling of where your thinking is going off track yet?

It seems as though this may becoming a broad, vague generalization. If by "Well, so do," you're implying to list me with "wackos," then that's a very broad assumption, pretty much heading towards ad hominem.

 

[Willie T]

It seems as though this may becoming a broad, vague generalization. If by "Well, so do," you're implying to list me with "wackos," then that's a very broad assumption, pretty much heading towards ad hominem.

Not at all. I just did exactly what you did. You claimed that what that video said was Soaking Prayer, really WAS what many people engage in as Soaking Prayer.
I asked you if you were ever involved in Soaking Prayer. You clearly said, No.
Yet, even after I told you I have been, and that what you were showing was not Soaking Prayer, you persisted in declaring it was BECAUSE you watched some videos and read some stuff.... and I guess that makes it true to you.

Now you threaten retaliation by hiding behind forum rules, rather than just admit that you are mistaken about your own blanket statements?

 

[YosefHayim]

Not at all. I just did exactly what you did. You claimed that what that video said was Soaking Prayer.
I asked you if you were ever involved in Soaking Prayer. You clearly said, No.
Yet, even after I told you I have been, and that what you were showing was not Soaking Prayer, you persisted in declaring it was BECAUSE you watched some videos and read some stuff.... and I guess that makes it true to you.

Now you threaten retaliation by hiding behind forum rules, rather than just admit that you are mistaken about your own blanket statements?

Why do I have to be involved in a particular act to know whether or not it is genuine? For example, a seance.

 

[Willie T]

Why do I have to be involved in a particular act to know whether or not it is genuine? For example, a seance.

YOU asked a question in your OP. I answered that, "No", this is not Soaking Prayer. But you seem to have your mind made up.

If that is the case, my asking if you really just wanted to knock some TV nuts, must be the true intent of your post. Why would you not ask if this stuff on the video is really what Soaking Prayer is all about? Is there an answer to that, other than what I suggested?

 

[reba]

Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

Mat_26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Jos_5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

1Co_14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Luk_5:12 And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a man full of leprosy: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

 

[YosefHayim]

YOU asked a question in your OP. I answered that, "No", this is not Soaking Prayer. But you seem to have your mind made up.

If that is the case, my asking if you really just wanted to knock some TV nuts, must be the true intent of your post. Why would you not ask if this stuff on the video is really what Soaking Prayer is all about? Is there an answer to that, other than what I suggested?

I wanted to know if there was any biblical support that shows people lying down and waiting for warm and fuzzy feelings.

I don't want to "just knock on some tv nuts". I want to just be obedient to scripture which warns us to test the spirits, expose darkness, and be a watchman on the wall taking heed not to be deceived, so that we aren't carried about with every wind of doctrine or by the sleight of men.

Why should I do what looks like eastern meditation in a yoga class?

What do you consider "soaking prayer?"

 

[JLB]

I wanted to know if there was any biblical support that shows people lying down and waiting for warm and fuzzy feelings.

I don't want to "just knock on some tv nuts". I want to just be obedient to scripture which warns us to test the spirits, expose darkness, and be a watchman on the wall taking heed not to be deceived, so that we aren't carried about with every wind of doctrine or by the sleight of men.

Why should I do what looks like eastern meditation in a yoga class?

What do you consider "soaking prayer?"

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

Sometimes it is those who are willing to come to Him, that find Him.

While the religious search the scriptures for a lifetime and never do.


JLB

 

[Willie T]

I wanted to know if there was any biblical support that shows people lying down and waiting for warm and fuzzy feelings.

I don't want to "just knock on some tv nuts". I want to just be obedient to scripture which warns us to test the spirits, expose darkness, and be a watchman on the wall taking heed not to be deceived, so that we aren't carried about with every wind of doctrine or by the sleight of men.

Why should I do what looks like eastern meditation in a yoga class?

What do you consider "soaking prayer?"

I've attended "Soaking Prayer" sessions in four different churches. They have all been, basically, similar.

Although this may be going on in several groups around the room, I will just relate what happens in a typical group.

Taking turns, one member of the group will sit in a chair (because this can take awhile) surrounded by about a half dozen other people who will take turns praying for them. There is seldom, if ever, a pastor involved, or even present. It is calm, quiet, and the object is to just get yourself settled down from your usual distractions to allow yourself to get more out of this prayer time than you would in one of those "Entertainment Sessions" you showed in your video.

You end up actually listening to the prayers, and reflecting upon the impressions some of the people might have had, and spoken about. Usually lasts about two to three hours, until everyone has been prayed for.

 

[YosefHayim]

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

Sometimes it is those who are willing to come to Him, that find Him.

While the religious search the scriptures for a lifetime and never do.


JLB

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 12:3

I know Jesus Christ is my Lord.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
Ephesians 2:8 says no work can save us. Only Christ can.

Yeshua said those that believe shall never perish, and shall never be lost; for it is Yeshua who is the bread and water of life. Anyone who believes in him shall have a fountain within them springing up into ever lasting life.

Blessed be our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Praise and glory be to the King of kings and Lord of lords who has made us no longer servants but heirs of God.

Salvation is his name. By no other name are we saved.

I'm am absolutely assured of my salvation. I will not submit to your endeavors of causing doubt. Only to Christ do I submit.

The grace of Christ be with you.

 

[YosefHayim]

I've attended "Soaking Prayer" sessions in four different churches. They have all been, basically, similar.

Although this may be going on in several groups around the room, I will just relate what happens in a typical group.

Taking turns, one member of the group will sit in a chair (because this can take awhile) surrounded by about a half dozen other people who will take turns praying for them. There is seldom, if ever, a pastor involved, or even present. It is calm, quiet, and the object is to just get yourself settled down from your usual distractions to allow yourself to get more out of this prayer time than you would in one of those "Entertainment Sessions" you showed in your video.

You end up actually listening to the prayers, and reflecting upon the impressions some of the people might have had, and spoken about. Usually lasts about two to three hours, until everyone has been prayed for.

Alright, now what are your thoughts on contemplative prayer, and how does it differ?

 

[jasonc]

By the way Jason, I have something I'd like you to pray about. Maybe you remember that the Lord put it on my heart to pray for the youth in my tiny community. Some nice things have been happening with the three little churches coming together to put on a youth conference with outside people coming in to put it on. The church Lexy and Jake attend is the church I would call home congregation, they are Pentecostal Holiness, just a little mission church. Anyway for the last month or so there have been five high school girls that are attending regularly. Would you pray for the Lord to touch the high school boys so that they would find a church home where they will hear the Gospel? Thanks.

ok, these are from the pentacostal church or are you calling that home? often here, those types are anti-Trinitarian and also you cant be saved unless you have the holy ghost. just want to be sure what to pray.

 

[Deborah13]

ok, these are from the pentacostal church or are you calling that home? often here, those types are anti-Trinitarian and also you cant be saved unless you have the holy ghost. just want to be sure what to pray.

Confused, what types are anti-Trinitarian?

This is Pentecostal Holiness beliefs as listed by that denomination.
http://iphc.org/beliefs/

I'm not sure what you are asking?