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Soma-Sight was wrong

You are acting like God is forced to send people to hell, and He is such a saint for saving us, when He is the one who is killing us in the first place.
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The wages of sin is death......

Our own actions send us to hell

Admitance that you need to change and accept God's plan is not hard, all it takes is humility

HE is knocking at the door to save us from the wrath

All we need to do is accept it and move on
 
Solo's avatar to me demonstrates the difference between Christ and all other gods.

He is reaching out to US!

His plan is already laid out and finished.

All we need to do is reach up and trust in Him.

There is no need to say a million mantrams or pray to Mecca every morning to "get right with God".

All we need to do is become as little Children and grasp the Son's hand back to the Father. He will take care of the rest as long as we are Truly LOYAL to what He says!

So simple. So True!

FOLLOW ME!
 
Joudie said:
I gotta admit I agree more with Gendou Ikari's reasoning than with Solo's. Just makes more sense to me...
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The reason it makes more sense is because your both LOST. You look at things in the flesh, where the Christian looks at things through the spririt that is Given to the believer.
1 cor 2:10-16
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
 
The wages of sin is death......

Our own actions send us to hell

Admittance that you need to change and accept God's plan is not hard, all it takes is humility

HE is knocking at the door to save us from the wrath

All we need to do is accept it and move on
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You are still acting like an Omnipotent God is forced to send us to hell for all eternity. God is not forced to do anything. He can do what ever he want; He is God.

We[Humans] never asked to be created. We never asked to be born sinful. If the Christian God was really Loving He would understand our dilemma and not give up on us after death.

Speaking a flawed Homo sapien, I would never give up on a daughter or son of mine who has disobeyed me time and time again. If my child is standing out in the rains of loneliness and desolation, I refuse to leave him or her there.

I gotta admit I agree more with Gendou Ikari's reasoning than with Solo's. Just makes more sense to me...
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It is Always nice to hear something of this nature, especially in a den of wolves.
 
Joudie said:
I gotta admit I agree more with Gendou Ikari's reasoning than with Solo's. Just makes more sense to me...
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Well then you better stock up on the marshmellows and weinies, and learn some good ole camp songs like Kumbaya.
 
Solo said:
Well then you better stock up on the marshmellows and weinies, and learn some good ole camp songs like Kumbaya.
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:-D :-D :-D
 
Gendou,

Anytime!

Solo and Jgredline,

You haven't really said anything specific to refute Gendou's reasoning. It's true, we had NO control over our creation, and according to you, we were born sinful...which we also have no control over. So we are all doomed to Hell unless we recieve Jesus. What about those who haven't even heard of Him? Like those that live in the Amazon? Or those that live in countries of another religion and they have their own religion that they are very content with and think is a very good way and don't bother to research because they didn't know there COULD be another way?

Cases such as the ones I mentioned above are MANY. If these are all doomed to Hell because of their ignorance--which THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER...then this is a very cruel God we're speaking of. Convince me otherwise if you can. I'm open to it.

PS: I am familiar with Kumbaya...but not that Jimmy Corn thingie. Gotta look that up just to satisfy my curiosity. Though, really, I prefer to just gaze at fires and think rather than sing. Not that my singing voice is bad, I just prefer to daydream...
 
Personally I feel that the world's scripture are each a cultural lense through which the same divine reality is being viewed
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Shame on you then for bearing the insigna of YHWH the one and true God, and then adulterating his name for syncretism with other religions like the Samaritans did.

I care for you, but I refuse to not be firm when it comes to lessening the name of the true God: YHWH.
 
Joudie said:
Gendou,

Anytime!

Solo and Jgredline,

You haven't really said anything specific to refute Gendou's reasoning. It's true, we had NO control over our creation, and according to you, we were born sinful...which we also have no control over. So we are all doomed to Hell unless we recieve Jesus. What about those who haven't even heard of Him? Like those that live in the Amazon? Or those that live in countries of another religion and they have their own religion that they are very content with and think is a very good way and don't bother to research because they didn't know there COULD be another way?

Cases such as the ones I mentioned above are MANY. If these are all doomed to Hell because of their ignorance--which THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER...then this is a very cruel God we're speaking of. Convince me otherwise if you can. I'm open to it.

PS: I am familiar with Kumbaya...but not that Jimmy Corn thingie. Gotta look that up just to satisfy my curiosity. Though, really, I prefer to just gaze at fires and think rather than sing. Not that my singing voice is bad, I just prefer to daydream...
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Read Romans 1.

Here is a taste:

16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, for it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes; for the Jew first, and also for the Greek.17 For in it is revealed God's righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, "But the righteous shall live by faith." 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse. Romans 1:17-20


PS I am so hurt that you can see Gendou's perspective and not the truth.
 
Joudie said:
Gendou,

Anytime!

Solo and Jgredline,

You haven't really said anything specific to refute Gendou's reasoning. It's true, we had NO control over our creation, and according to you, we were born sinful...which we also have no control over. So we are all doomed to Hell unless we recieve Jesus. What about those who haven't even heard of Him? Like those that live in the Amazon? Or those that live in countries of another religion and they have their own religion that they are very content with and think is a very good way and don't bother to research because they didn't know there COULD be another way?

Cases such as the ones I mentioned above are MANY. If these are all doomed to Hell because of their ignorance--which THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER...then this is a very cruel God we're speaking of. Convince me otherwise if you can. I'm open to it.

PS: I am familiar with Kumbaya...but not that Jimmy Corn thingie. Gotta look that up just to satisfy my curiosity. Though, really, I prefer to just gaze at fires and think rather than sing. Not that my singing voice is bad, I just prefer to daydream...
Click to expand...

Read Romans 2

Here is a taste:

1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds": 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
 
I don't mean to sound ignorant...

But can you put in your own words along with the verses? First off, I find the verses a bit hard to follow, and I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.

Look, God created us all, right? And, if I have it straight, we are all born sinful, right? That's why we have to find Jesus and be "born again" and thus we get the Holy Spirit and then follow Jesus, thus we are saved from Hell...right? If you are not "born again" you are doomed to Hell, no? Well, I still don't get how someone who has no idea who Jesus even is (like say someone who hunts and gathers in the Amazon) but leads a good and productive life finds himself in Hell. That is unbelievably cruel and I haven't found a good argument against that. Just be more specific, put in your own explanations in a way that would be easier to follow than one big Bible quotation.
 
Joudie said:
I don't mean to sound ignorant...

But can you put in your own words along with the verses? First off, I find the verses a bit hard to follow, and I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.

Look, God created us all, right? And, if I have it straight, we are all born sinful, right? That's why we have to find Jesus and be "born again" and thus we get the Holy Spirit and then follow Jesus, thus we are saved from Hell...right? If you are not "born again" you are doomed to Hell, no? Well, I still don't get how someone who has no idea who Jesus even is (like say someone who hunts and gathers in the Amazon) but leads a good and productive life finds himself in Hell. That is unbelievably cruel and I haven't found a good argument against that. Just be more specific, put in your own explanations in a way that would be easier to follow than one big Bible quotation.
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If you can't understand the Word of God, you will not understand me.
 
Look, God created us all, right? And, if I have it straight, we are all born sinful, right? That's why we have to find Jesus and be "born again" and thus we get the Holy Spirit and then follow Jesus, thus we are saved from Hell...right? If you are not "born again" you are doomed to Hell, no? Well, I still don't get how someone who has no idea who Jesus even is (like say someone who hunts and gathers in the Amazon) but leads a good and productive life finds himself in Hell. That is unbelievably cruel and I haven't found a good argument against that. Just be more specific, put in your own explanations in a way that would be easier to follow than one big Bible quotation.
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They will probably have to choose Jesus like the people in Abraham's Bosom (Paradise) did. Read up on what Jesus did concerning his three days in Sheol and how he brought the former righteous dead to heaven with him. "Therefore it says,WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES (Ephesians 4:8, Psalm 68:18) Read also verses 9 & 10 of that chapter in Ephesians, which talk about him decending into the earth and then acending again. David would have also been among those acended with Jesus "led captive" because it was prophesied, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in Sheol" (Psalm 16:10) It also appears that Jesus proclaimed his Gospel to some of the wicked dead while in Sheol. "...In which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah..." (1 Peter 3:19-20)

We can only assume that Jesus will make a similar proclamation to those who naturally obeyed God through the natural mechanisms that God has given all men (Romans 1:19-21), yet may not have heard of Jesus specifically (like the righteous men of the OT).


Read this excellent link on it. I think you'll enjoy it. It covers almost everything I've said to you here.
 
Thanks, cybershark, that's an interesting article...and thanks very much for taking the time to answer my question.

I'm sorry for being out of line with my previous response--if anyone except the mod who edited it read it. As far as I know, I do treat people with respect so long as they do the same to me, which is not always the case. It's just a bit frustrating when you're trying to have a question answered and you get talked down to. Still, it doesn't warrant a reply like mine, though the reasons behind my reply still stand.

Aaanyways, thanks again Cybershark.

:)
 
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