[_ Old Earth _] Some of the books which changed an atheist's view...

[Gary]

And from what he's said, he's not dead against Christ.

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."

I'd say that's about as dead against as you can get.

Gary: Not really. He does not (yet) realise that it is Christ who attracts believers. Read again what Flew said about Jesus Christ

• GARY HABERMAS: I ask this last question with a smile, Tony. But just think what would happen if one day you were pleasantly disposed toward Christianity and all of a sudden the resurrection of Jesus looked pretty good to you?
  
  ANTONY FLEW: Well, one thing I’ll say in this comparison is that, for goodness sake, Jesus is an enormously attractive charismatic figure, which the Prophet of Islam most emphatically is not.

Gary: Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him.



Asimov: Oh wow, now I see the light. Finally, an ignore feature. Good talkin to ya Gary.

Gary: I realise you have no answer. Always good to put your head in the sand when stuck. Most atheists do that!

 

[bibleberean]

If god gave only one rule some would still call him a dictator.

I call him a dictator...

I would call Him God.

 

[will]

Re: god

The bible preaches a message of peace and love (how we are meant to love TODAY) so how could you be worried by that.
Does it worry you if the people belive in what jesus says and want others to take it on board. What jesus taught if everyone belived would bring a peaceful world. As im sure you can see this is not a peaceful world and you cannot disagree that the further socity moves away from christianity the more dangerous and evil humnity becomes. Theres more rape more murders more thefts major drug issues and more. Cant you see the more we depend on ourselfs to move forward the harder we are falling. This world is in a bad way because people reject god they reject good they welcome selfishness and chase only what can get them further in socity.

Of course we are trying to infulence politics we can see whats going on. We know socity needs to draw close to god again we know that people need him. But we are losing that battle and the ironic thing is that in the end we will lost on that front but win the war. Christ will return and fix the mess that is being made right now.

What does this have to do with science?

Why would it have anything to do with science?. I was replying to reznwerks post about politics nothing to do with science.....thats kinda the reason i quoted his post and replyed to it :wink: .

 

[Asimov]

Just tryin to put this back on track.

 

[will]

If god gave only one rule some would still call him a dictator.

I call him a dictator...

I would call Him God.

Amen to that. He is indeed god. He is our father our lord our saviour and more. But like any father hes gotta lay down rules of how his childeren are expected to grow. After all if your parents say to you dont do that its bad and you do it anyway you will get a row at the least for it.

 

[keebs]

After all if your parents say to you dont do that its bad and you do it anyway you will get a row at the least for it.

Yeah, but my parents don't eventually kill me because of something my great, great, great, great, great...1 hour later...great ancestors did. Original sin is quite the hassle...

 

[bibleberean]

Death is genetic. It is passed from generation to generation.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The solution:

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Gary]

Just tryin to put this back on track.

Gary: Great! Then answer the question! Have you read either book?

Genesis and the Big Bang Theory: The Discovery Of Harmony Between Modern Science And The Bible (GERALD SCHROEDER)
For more information: -CLICK HERE-

The Hidden Face of God: How Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth (GERALD SCHROEDER)
For more information: -CLICK HERE-

I have read the first book. I can recommend it.

Have you read either book?

:wink:

 

[keebs]

Death is genetic. It is passed from generation to generation.

Death isn't a genetic trait. Things such as cellular degeneration are effected by your genes, but you don't have (a) death gene/genes.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Yep...sure does sound like my parents. Atleast my parents forgive me when I sin...

The rest of the stuff about Jesus is irrelevant, because we still die regardless of Him.

 

[bibleberean]

Death is genetic. It is passed from generation to generation.

Death isn't a genetic trait. Things such as cellular degeneration are effected by your genes, but you don't have (a) death gene/genes.

[quote:3fa12]Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Yep...sure does sound like my parents. Atleast my parents forgive me when I sin...

The rest of the stuff about Jesus is irrelevant, because we still die regardless of Him.[/quote:3fa12]

Death is passed from parents to offspring. Your statement reflects that.

And the rest of the stuff about Jesus is relevent. This is a Christian forum remember?

We will all die but those in Christ will have eternal life.

It doesn't matter if you believe this or not. It is true anyway.

One day you will believe it. Either in this life or after it is too late.

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[keebs]

And the rest of the stuff about Jesus is relevent. This is a Christian forum remember?

No, it's not. Your following statement clearly shows that we physically die with or without God, and it was physical death that was in discussion:

We will all die but those in Christ will have eternal life.

 

[bibleberean]

And the rest of the stuff about Jesus is relevent. This is a Christian forum remember?

No, it's not. Your following statement clearly shows that we physically die with or without God, and it was physical death that was in discussion:

[quote:e4cc3]We will all die but those in Christ will have eternal life.

[/quote:e4cc3]

Those in Christ will have new physical bodies that will never die.

 

[Asimov]

And the rest of the stuff about Jesus is relevent. This is a Christian forum remember?

No, it's not. Your following statement clearly shows that we physically die with or without God, and it was physical death that was in discussion:

[quote:29b57]We will all die but those in Christ will have eternal life.

Those in Christ will have new physical bodies that will never die.[/quote:29b57]

That's not the point, the point is we still die.

 

[bibleberean]

Not according to Christ...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Asimov]

Not according to Christ...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Then that verse is a lie, Christians are still dying.

 

[bibleberean]

Death for Christians is also spiritual. All Christians are now spiritually alive though before we were dead in trespasses and sins.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

There will come a time when all will knwo the truth. Everyone knows the truth when their bodies die.

When a Christians body dies he or she is immediately in the presence of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

For non believers or unrepentent sinners who have not been born again there is a different destination.

The important thing for everyman is to accept the offer of eternal life through the death and shed blood of Jesus on our behalf.

All men will be believers. Carl Sagan has his theology straight.

He knows there is a God and that the bible is true.


The moment of truth is coming closer with each passing second.

 

[Asimov]

Death for Christians is also spiritual. All Christians are now spiritually alive though before we were dead in trespasses and sins.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

There will come a time when all will knwo the truth. Everyone knows the truth when their bodies die.

When a Christians body dies he or she is immediately in the presence of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

For non believers or unrepentent sinners who have not been born again there is a different destination.

The important thing for everyman is to accept the offer of eternal life through the death and shed blood of Jesus on our behalf.

All men will be believers. Carl Sagan has his theology straight.

He knows there is a God and that the bible is true.


The moment of truth is coming closer with each passing second.

So once again, you interpret what Jesus said figuratively.

 

[bibleberean]

Jesus said those who believe in Him would never perish. Jesus did not say that those who believe in Him would not have their bodies die.

In fact if you knew the bible which you obvioulsy don't you wouldn't even make a statement like that.

I don't have to interpret the bible because I know what it says.

Jesus told Peter that he would die.

John 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

John 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Jesus also said that we are not to fear them that kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Unless you repent and believe the gospel of salvation you will be one of those who's soul,spirit and body will be in hell.

That is the absolute truth.

I know where I am going and it is truly my prayer that you will not have such a horrendous fate as to spend eternity in the Lake of fire.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Of course that is up to you.

I once again have not interpreted scriptures but let the scriptures interpret themselves.

To perish according to the bible is to spend eternity separated from God.

 

[Asimov]

Jesus said those who believe in Him would never perish. Jesus did not say that those who believe in Him would not have their bodies die.

In fact if you knew the bible which you obvioulsy don't you wouldn't even make a statement like that.

I don't have to interpret the bible because I know what it says.

Jesus told Peter that he would die.

John 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

John 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Jesus also said that we are not to fear them that kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Unless you repent and believe the gospel of salvation you will be one of those who's soul,spirit and body will be in hell.

That is the absolute truth.

I know where I am going and it is truly my prayer that you will not have such a horrendous fate as to spend eternity in the Lake of fire.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Of course that is up to you.

I once again have not interpreted scriptures but let the scriptures interpret themselves.

To perish according to the bible is to spend eternity separated from God.

Changing the meanings of words, berean?

 

[bibleberean]

No, letting the scriptures speak for themselves. :roll: