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Bible Study Something to think about.

K

KenEOTE

Member
John 17:20-21
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me
through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in
me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that
you have sent me.

When I read this verse I wonder how much the Modern Church grieves Jesus. His
last prayer before he went to his death was for us. HE simply wanted us to be
one. 2000 years later and here we are a broken body. Separated by manmade
denominations each claiming they are more in tune with what Christ wanted, and
everyone else is not as right as they are. They do not realize that by even
saying what they are saying they are keeping the Body apart.
God wants us to cross denominational barriers. We cannot go around claiming our
defining ourselves by what church we belong too. We are to define ourselves as
being one with each other.
Christ wanted us to be one so the world would believe that he was the Christ.
We have failed miserably at that. No wonder there is evolution taught in
schools, and no prayer allowed. No wonder abortion is on the rise, and
heretical books are the number one bestsellers, and movies that blaspheme God
are blockbusters.
We who follow Christ, can't even stand together against the powers of this
world. We refuse to, I am a Baptist I cannot stand next to a Lutheran, or I am
a Presbyterian that guy is Catholic. Even when we have Marches for Jesus, or
walks for Life we hold up Banners that claim what church we are from. How silly
is that? We are there for a common purpose but we put up our walls so others
will know they are not a part of our body.
We must get past these silly doctrinal differences, and realize we are all made
for fellowship with God and with each other. How are we to win over the lost if
we cannot even unite to pull the net in together. We need the whole body to do
the work of God. We need to power of the Holy Spirit to unite us.
We have had 2000 years of amputations in the Body of Christ, it is time that we
allow the great physician to put us back together through the power of the Holy
Spirit. Do not let your denomination be the infection that keeps Christ's
body apart.
 
All I can say to your post, Ken, is "AMEN!"

As long as you have three people in a room you will have five opinions. We shall always have theological and philosophical differences. But agreement concerning theology and philosphy do not define Christian unity.

Christian unity is based on agreement concerning being disciples of Christ. Our aim should be to die to self pursuits, and become alive in Christ to serve Christ and others. Our ministry to each other is to build one another up, and to support one another in this endeavour.

Some people are disturbed to the point of anger if someone disagrees with them in theology. Why should they be angry? There may be an issue of truth there, but the fact is all of us are right about some things and wrong about others. Sure, let's continue to pursue truth, and let's listen to our brother's or sister's arguments. Even is we are dead sure we're right, we might even learn that we are mistaken after all. If we obstinately hang on to all we believe and refuse to consider anything to the contrary, how can we grow in our understanding of reality? We will simply remain stagnant in our supposed "truth".
 
Be careful that you don't get sucked in to the lie of the devil, the one world religion.
There is ONE truth, ONE Christianity, and that is found in the Holy Bible, and
I follow the KJV, because the Lord led me to study Hebrew, and I found the KJV of the bible to
be the utmost in reliability.
I studied under the guidance of a rabbi, who had NO interest in becoming a Christian, btw.

One of the most damnable heresies that has divided the church, mostly CONFUSED the church,
and God is NOT the author of confusion, is all these bible versions being sold.

Another reason the churches are divided is because they knuckled under political correctness,
and decided to STOP preaching sin, as the bible teaches it, and now, most churches are
populated with people who have no idea what truth is, and the preacher or priest in the pulpit
leading them is just as mixed up.

True Christianity is wonderful, and there is absolute agreement within the body of Christ.
There are also different levels of maturity, in all kinds of things, like faith, patience, love,
studying the bible, praying, being hospitable, being perservering.
We are supposed to READ the bible, again, the KJV is the most reliable, and then live it.
No, we don't live it perfectly, but, we are to abstain from fleshly lusts, and keep ourselves separate from the world.

Another reason for divisions in the churches is, the WORLDLINESS going on! People letting their children say and do whatever, parents and older people gossiping, ignoring Jesus, going to the movies, paying Hollywood the money GOD gave them, when Hollywood is so against true Christianity it''s pathetic. People don't dress modestly, they don't seek Jesus, they are afraid to stand up and witness to people.
People are NOT in fear of the Lord. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Another reason for division in the churches is there is no preaching of the shed blood of Jesus, nor do preachers talk about the HOLINESS of God.
 
Good subject and goos posts, but I especially agree with Biblereader's first paragraph. I have concerns about that too.

Ken, what Bible version are you quoting? I don't recognize it. Lets all try and remember to cite the Bible version being used in posts.

Thanks.
 
Ken, what Bible version are you quoting? I don't recognize it. Lets all try and remember to cite the Bible version being used in posts.
Click to expand...

Doubtless Ken can answer for himself. But I recongize it. It's the NIV.
 
I do not think that sectarianism has much to do with a one world religion. One is lack of maturity, and the other is deception. Lack of maturity leads to deception. Believers should be unified under Christ Jesus alone, not a religion...that's the whole point. A one world religion will be a deception. If we are hungering and thirsting after Jesus, seeking His face, and living in the Power of His Holy Word, then man's doctrines will be, and should be, putrid to our senses. If we love the world, we can not hear God, but if we hate the world we will hear our Lord...all of the church will respond to His Truth. The world's buffet shouldn't look to us as a feast to sample till we have our bellies full, but as a dung heap to be shunned. The Lord bless all of you.
 
KenEOTE said:
....When I read this verse I wonder how much the Modern Church grieves Jesus. His last prayer before he went to his death was for us. HE simply wanted us to be
one. 2000 years later and here we are a broken body.....
Click to expand...

I know you don't want me to get going on THIS subject
 
Its NIV. First of all did I say a one world religion? Secondly Christianity is not about religion. Jesus did not create a religion. I didn't say except Buddhists, or Muslims, or a man made religion. I am referring to people who cling to a man made denomination, and say my denomination is the be all and end all. I am glad to see that a few of you got the point.

For those of you stuck in Ye Old England it says:
John 17:20-21 (King James Version)
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Not much of a difference in translation minus the art and thou's.
 
KenEOTE said:
John 17:20-21
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me
through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in
me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that
you have sent me.

When I read this verse I wonder how much the Modern Church grieves Jesus. His
last prayer before he went to his death was for us. HE simply wanted us to be
one. 2000 years later and here we are a broken body. Separated by manmade
denominations each claiming they are more in tune with what Christ wanted, and
everyone else is not as right as they are. They do not realize that by even
saying what they are saying they are keeping the Body apart.
God wants us to cross denominational barriers. We cannot go around claiming our
defining ourselves by what church we belong too. We are to define ourselves as
being one with each other.
Christ wanted us to be one so the world would believe that he was the Christ.
We have failed miserably at that. No wonder there is evolution taught in
schools, and no prayer allowed. No wonder abortion is on the rise, and
heretical books are the number one bestsellers, and movies that blaspheme God
are blockbusters.
We who follow Christ, can't even stand together against the powers of this
world. We refuse to, I am a Baptist I cannot stand next to a Lutheran, or I am
a Presbyterian that guy is Catholic. Even when we have Marches for Jesus, or
walks for Life we hold up Banners that claim what church we are from. How silly
is that? We are there for a common purpose but we put up our walls so others
will know they are not a part of our body.
We must get past these silly doctrinal differences, and realize we are all made
for fellowship with God and with each other. How are we to win over the lost if
we cannot even unite to pull the net in together. We need the whole body to do
the work of God. We need to power of the Holy Spirit to unite us.
We have had 2000 years of amputations in the Body of Christ, it is time that we
allow the great physician to put us back together through the power of the Holy
Spirit. Do not let your denomination be the infection that keeps Christ's
body apart.
Click to expand...


Nothing that Jesus prayed about failed to become a reality. The thing that you need to understand is there is a difference between being a member of a denomination and being one with the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. All of God's people are truly one, but you cannot see this if we believe that every denomination is of God; no it is not.

Being a member of God's Church means that all those who are in it have received the Holy Spirit. Through out Jesus ministry He would often speak in parables about what the kingdom of God is like; the parable that Jesus spoke tells us about the Church. One of the parables that He gave was the wheat and the tare.

Matthew 13:24-30 (KJV)
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The understanding of the wheat and the tare is that among God's people we will have false Christians. Just as how almost identical a wheat and a tare looks, so it is with a Christian and a false Christian. But God wants the false Christian to stay among those who are truly converted, because removing the false ones will only cause some of those who are true Christians to be uprooted with them.

So to repeat, God's people are truly one, but we need to look beyond the individual denominations to see it, because God's Church transcends all denominations, but all members of each denominations are not God's Church. In other word, one can be a member of a denomination and get baptized and called a Christian but still not be a member of the Church of God.
 
Yes we are all one with God, but I believe that the modern day church is shameful to God, and is not what he intended. We are one in Christ but we are suppose to be unified. How then can we be when we argue over things like you need to be fully submerged or sprinkled, should we have communion once a month or once a week, KJV is better than NIV, the list goes on an on of things I have seen Christians fight about, and I mean fight. None of the things we fight most about have any eternal value. I have heard people saying my denomination most closely resembles the first century church, therefore we are the right way to do things. Well if being close to how the first century church did it is the right way then why not do it exactly like they did it, why just be close. Go meet in synagogues on Friday night and then meet in homes and break bread together, that is how they did it. We are the bride of Christ, yet we are ready to go to the wedding in a torn up stained wedding dress. :crazyeyes:
 
KenEOTE said:
Yes we are all one with God, but I believe that the modern day church is shameful to God, and is not what he intended. :
Click to expand...

If you would like to see the differing levels of maturity of God's Church study Revelation 2 to 3.

KenEOTE said:
We are one in Christ but we are suppose to be unified. How then can we be when we argue over things like you need to be fully submerged or sprinkled, should we have communion once a month or once a week, KJV is better than NIV, the list goes on an on of things I have seen Christians fight about, and I mean fight. None of the things we fight most about have any eternal value. I have heard people saying my denomination most closely resembles the first century church, therefore we are the right way to do things. Well if being close to how the first century church did it is the right way then why not do it exactly like they did it, why just be close. Go meet in synagogues on Friday night and then meet in homes and break bread together, that is how they did it. We are the bride of Christ, yet we are ready to go to the wedding in a torn up stained wedding dress. :crazyeyes:
Click to expand...

What you are talking about is being spiritually mature, but the thing is that maturity takes time, that's why the scripture tells us to grow in grace and in knowledge....growth takes time; if we were to all be mature in an instant then there would be no reason for that scripture to be there. I wouldn’t worry too much about it, because Jesus is the head of His Church and He knows what He is doing. Any part of His body that is lagging behind He knows what to do. What we as individual should be doing is setting an example for others to see; who knows you could be the one God might use to help that part of His Body/Church that lacks.
 
Exactly, unfortunately a majority of Christians are stuck in the Baby food mode of their faith. There are even pastors still in that mode.
 
KenEOTE said:
Exactly, unfortunately a majority of Christians are stuck in the Baby food mode of their faith. There are even pastors still in that mode.
Click to expand...

Yes being a pastor does not automatically mean that one will be more mature than those whom they should be edifying, which is the reason why I do my own Bible study at home in addition to attending service; I put my salvation in no one hands other than the word of God. I check everything that is said from the pulpit with God's word. But I am confedent that God will correct all the problems that now exist in God's Church when it is time for Him to do so.
 
For one reason or another the word "EMERGENCE" came to mind when I read the OP. From the very beginning the Church has always struggled to worship God in the true faith in Christ uninhibited, yet Paul yearningly told the Corinthians, "Our mouth has spoken freely to you, O Corinthians, our heart is opened wide.You are not restrained by us, but you are restrained in your own affections" (2 Corinthians 6:11-12). The Church suffers from too many additions or subtractions from the faith which inhibit it, both lawlessness and institutionalism, legalism and lack of self-control, hard hearted or driven by emotions. Through it all is the piercing pain of the struggle to emerge from its own web of worldly trials which it is caught in. Jesus said, "So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed" (John 8:36), but where is this freedom? Are we becoming enslaved to the former things as the Galatians? We need to emerge from these things, break free. The Church honestly needs a revolution, and by that I mean a true change and experiencing of God's power: like what it means to walk in grace, to be strengthened in our weakness, to loose perceived merit based relationship ties to God, and to truly realize that any righteousness which we exhibit in this life is not our own but Christ's. And also, are we as individuals walking with and experiencing God? A Church of individuals who do not themselves experience God but "draw from the crowd" (so to speak) is infact no Church at all, and there truly is no communion of believers. And true Christians also have to learn to love other genuine Christians regardless of denominational boundary. Sect religion can develop a conceited and self-righteous attitude among Christians and become a "source of quarrels and conflicts among you" (James 4:1). We must emerge from our own inhibitions, entanglements with the world, and also sect religion and strict institutionalism. Christ did not establish an institution, He established His Church - His Bride to be.

And so this is the theme of emergence and bond-breaking: sanctification unto God.

"Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“ I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.â€Â
Therefore “Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.â€Â
“ I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the LORD Almighty.â€Â
(2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

Let us come out from among the world, and from lawlessness, and from our own man-made inhibitions and pursue Christ with a "pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith" (1 Timothy 1:5).

God Bless,

~Josh
 
Josh, the word emergence puts red flags up for me because of the emerging church movement that is out there right now. It concerns me in a serious way. I do agree with your post, though, but I do so with a disclaimer that I do not agree with Rob Bell, and others. The Lord bless you.
 
There can only be one unity that is pleasing to God and that is unity in the Truth. Unity in compromise for the sake of unity is everybit as foul as seperation. We could all unify in mormonism how could that please God. The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. To have less than we are given is to live a lie.

The Truth matters and will only be realized in unity with the Holy Spirit.
 
Hi Lovely,

lovely said:
Josh, the word emergence puts red flags up for me because of the emerging church movement that is out there right now. It concerns me in a serious way. I do agree with your post, though, but I do so with a disclaimer that I do not agree with Rob Bell, and others. The Lord bless you.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I used any controversial terms, but I did not intend it in such a way. I am unsure of your reference to this "emerging church movement" or who Rob Bell is, but I assure you I had no such notion. Many Churches can preach revival and get some people emotionally hyped and possibly lead them astray (which I suspect this most recent Lakeland revival has been doing - but since I don't have all the facts I cannot say for sure), but this is another symptom of the Church being in a struggle, and it is desperately looking for rest (which incidently cannot be found in anyone other than Christ), as I said: "The Church suffers from too many additions or subtractions from the faith which inhibit it, both lawlessness and institutionalism, legalism and lack of self-control, hard hearted or driven by emotions. Through it all is the piercing pain of the struggle to emerge from its own web of worldly trials which it is caught in." Yet some people are so yearning to get ahold of a "religious experience" that can grab them and finally make them feel something and give them rest and peace from their struggles that they will reach out to the wrong things. But basically that is trading one form of bondage for another.

What I meant by emergence was completly breaking free of these forms of bondage, both religious and secular/worldly. I had in mind the seed that grew up among thorns: the plant needs someone to remove the thorns lest they be choked for good with the cares of the world. This is why the Church doesn't need a Revival, it needs (as I said) a Revolution - or perhaps better stated, a Regeneration. Basically a touch from God (God's work) rather than an attempt of man to pull (push?) people closer to God in revivals (Man's work).

If you want to think of 'emergence' in a different way think: emerging from the valley of the shadow of death to the cool and calm waters beside which God can lead us. Emergence from pain, struggles, and spiritual lostness and disorientation. Only God can properly guide us out of the fog that can hang over every person's head during trials in their life. We need to emerge "out of darkness into His marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:9). That is how I meant it.

God Bless,

~Josh
 
Hi my brothers and sisters~ :-D

The word of God tells us what makes us one, I have included only a few of many many verses that reveal God's unity of His called out ones into the body of Christ. 8-)

First all our unity is by and thru God alone, no work of humanity may make the spiritual house of God.
1 Cor. 8: 5+6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

According to the word of God we are already one spiritually:

Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
And again;
Gal. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

One day literally we will be one;

Eph. 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
In the meantime we are to strive for unity by;
Phil 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
We are one in mind as we;
Col 3: 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

AND~

1 Peter 3:8+9 Finally, all [of you be] of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, [be] tenderhearted, [be] courteous; not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing.
We are one as we follow the examples of the saints before us;
Col. 4:12 Epaphras, who is [one] of you, a servant of Christ, salutes you, always laboring fervently for you in prayers, that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

Living out the life of Jesus within each of us makes us one. We are one by communion, thru the blood of Christ.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Those outside the faith are able to know we are the Lord’s disciples by our love for one another.

John 13:35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Finally we are one family forever thru the love of God birthed into our hearts;

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

Every family has it's differences, in the closest relationships we strive and argue with one another, this is evidence of the sin-nature still present within us all, even after salvation.

Yet, denominationalism is much the same. Small differences in taste and type and venue cause us to spread out into smaller flocks. From what I can tell, it seems to be used to guard our uniqueness (a God given virtue); uniformity is the copy-catters ploy. Only fallen man and the devil make duplicates, everything the Creator has made is unique. Yes?

Therefore, denominations are healthy, keeping us tightly joined in small groups, like sheep. Baaaaaa . . . :fadein: bonnie
 
Josh,

I really was nearly positive that you were not advocating this movement...just being safe. I was not offended by the word...it's good, but I just wanted to keep my distance from them.

The Lord bless you.
 
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