Speaking in Tongues: A Sign for Nonbelievers

[awaken]

Note what the verse states,

“they were all filled with the Holy Ghost.â€

Once they were filled with the Holy Ghost, what did they do?

They spake the word of God with boldness!

Who were they speaking to?

 

[Elf]

Mark 16:17-18
"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." (Mark 16:17-18)

Can you explain this?

These were signs which were for those who first preached the gospel, and belonged only to those who had the gift of working miracles, the Apostles.

 

[Elf]

In my opinion, speaking in tongues serves no purpose unless someone is there who understands what is being said. I don’t think the Lord, therefore, has people speak in tongues unless someone understands what is being said. If no one understands what is being said, then the person is simply speaking gibberish.

Even then what would be the use? We have scripture, why take a chance on something which can be counterfeited so easily. After all, can you be sure the one speaking in a tongue is legit? Even with a (so called) interpreter?

 

[Elf]

What advantage would one gain if a word is spoken and no one understood what was being said? The word spoken would not benefit anyone, correct?

I agree..it would only edify the one speaking..

Considering 1 Cor 14:2-4
These simply are just unprofitable sounds, it does not contribute to the edifying of the church. The reason he speaks only to God and not to men is because no one else can hear (understand) him, to everyone else it makes no sense and is just noise. This person gathers attention to himself, it is a perverse thing since it does not in the least contribute to the edification of the church. Obviously there was an abuse of gifts here, and Paul was correcting them.

If these tongues were other then human languages they were for the building of the church, why else world they be mysteries, and why would we need them today, scripture is complete there are no further revelations.

What is the meaning of "builds up himself"?

In verse 2, Paul says this he speaks to God, now Paul says, this person speaks to himself.
Paul speaks in a conceding way here (he speak to God, then to himself V:2&4), because when people make use of gifts or what have you in ways like this (self praise), inwardly there is no desire other then for themselves. Paul recognizes this is pride and just for show.

But.... Vs:3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
In either sense here there is speaking going on, either in an unknown tongue (which no one understands) or in the language of the listeners, which is profitable? Which is for self interest? Which one has use, which does not? Can both be supported by explicit scripture proof?

Doesn't it make you wonder?
Throughout history the enemy has always counterfeited God and His ways gifts, miracles ect....

But the enemy truly has trouble with God's written word.

 

[glorydaz]

Mark 16:17-18
"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." (Mark 16:17-18)

Can you explain this?

These were signs which were for those who first preached the gospel, and belonged only to those who had the gift of working miracles, the Apostles.

Amen....it's surprising how many people don't know that.

 

[awaken]

Mark 16:17-18
"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." (Mark 16:17-18)

Can you explain this?

These were signs which were for those who first preached the gospel, and belonged only to those who had the gift of working miracles, the Apostles.

So you are saying that only the Apostles worked miracles?

 

[awaken]

What advantage would one gain if a word is spoken and no one understood what was being said? The word spoken would not benefit anyone, correct?

I agree..it would only edify the one speaking..

Considering 1 Cor 14:2-4
These simply are just unprofitable sounds, it does not contribute to the edifying of the church. The reason he speaks only to God and not to men is because no one else can hear (understand) him, to everyone else it makes no sense and is just noise. This person gathers attention to himself, it is a perverse thing since it does not in the least contribute to the edification of the church. Obviously there was an abuse of gifts here, and Paul was correcting them.

If these tongues were other then human languages they were for the building of the church, why else world they be mysteries, and why would we need them today, scripture is complete there are no further revelations.

What is the meaning of "builds up himself"?

In verse 2, Paul says this he speaks to God, now Paul says, this person speaks to himself.
Paul speaks in a conceding way here (he speak to God, then to himself V:2&4), because when people make use of gifts or what have you in ways like this (self praise), inwardly there is no desire other then for themselves. Paul recognizes this is pride and just for show.

But.... Vs:3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
In either sense here there is speaking going on, either in an unknown tongue (which no one understands) or in the language of the listeners, which is profitable? Which is for self interest? Which one has use, which does not? Can both be supported by explicit scripture proof?

Doesn't it make you wonder?
Throughout history the enemy has always counterfeited God and His ways gifts, miracles ect....

But the enemy truly has trouble with God's written word.

So what about Jude 20..when he tells you to build yourself up..praying in the Holy Ghost?

 

[glorydaz]

I see it as praying in the Spirit as opposed to praying in the flesh.

I've seen people do both....we're to walk in the Spirit, putting aside our fleshly or soulish desires and pray according to God's will. Unless we're praying in the Spirit, how can we know God's will? That doesn't mean speaking in tongues. IMO

Here's another verse along the same lines.

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

[awaken]

I see it as praying in the Spirit as opposed to praying in the flesh.

I've seen people do both....we're to walk in the Spirit, putting aside our fleshly or soulish desires and pray according to God's will. Unless we're praying in the Spirit, how can we know God's will? That doesn't mean speaking in tongues. IMO

Here's another verse along the same lines.

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Glorydaz,
Who are the ones speaking in tongues speaking too? (In Acts 2, Acts 11, Acts 19)
What does Paul call praying in the spirit in 1 Cor. 14:4?

 

[Elf]

Mark 16:17-18
"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." (Mark 16:17-18)

Can you explain this?

These were signs which were for those who first preached the gospel, and belonged only to those who had the gift of working miracles, the Apostles.

Amen....it's surprising how many people don't know that.

Yes, it is difficult to actually see and believe what scripture is actually teaching and go against all our first loves, meaning many grow up with these beliefs and cherish them as truth, they are hard to give up.

At least (hopefully) Jesus Christ is #1. These all fall into second place and downward on the scale of importance. But unfortunately they are a seed for error in so many other doctrines.

 

[Elf]

Mark 16:17-18
"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." (Mark 16:17-18)

Can you explain this?

These were signs which were for those who first preached the gospel, and belonged only to those who had the gift of working miracles, the Apostles.

So you are saying that only the Apostles worked miracles?

I'm saying there is not evidence that I can see in scripture to believe anyone besides Christ and His apostles performed miracles.

Do you see anyone today who performs miracles?

 

[Elf]

So what about Jude 20..when he tells you to build yourself up..praying in the Holy Ghost?

Well lets look at the next verse also:
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

Jude is speaking about confirming and advancing ourselves in our spiritual state of grace and regeneration (like a building) upon the only foundation of faith in Christ. How else would you do this but in the Holy Spirit?
In the Greek, it means "raising and enlarging the building."

We do this by the Spirits motion and inspiration, and not by word of mouth, nor with the tongue only.

Curious, does you version say, "in other tongues, or prayer language?"

 

[Elf]

I see it as praying in the Spirit as opposed to praying in the flesh.

I've seen people do both....we're to walk in the Spirit, putting aside our fleshly or soulish desires and pray according to God's will. Unless we're praying in the Spirit, how can we know God's will? That doesn't mean speaking in tongues. IMO

Here's another verse along the same lines.

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Amen!

 

[Elf]

Who are the ones speaking in tongues speaking too? (In Acts 2, Acts 11, Acts 19)

Verses?

What does Paul call praying in the spirit in 1 Cor. 14:4?

Lets see: One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
Paul says this person edifies himself. Basically because no one else understands him.
Again............These simply are just unprofitable sounds, it does not contribute to the edifying of the church. The reason he speaks only to God and not to men is because no one else can hear (understand) him, to everyone else it makes no sense and is just noise. This person gathers attention to himself, it is a perverse thing since it does not in the least contribute to the edification of the church. Obviously there was an abuse of gifts here, and Paul was correcting them.

As to your question: What does Paul call praying in the spirit in 1 Cor. 14:4?
Paul's answer: One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
I ask you, what does Paul say praying in the spirit is, in Vs:4?

How do you connect this tongues with Paul's teaching, and making him mean that is praying in the spirit?
Even if that were the case here, (supposing Paul said this) would that be the final word on it all?

 

[awaken]

These were signs which were for those who first preached the gospel, and belonged only to those who had the gift of working miracles, the Apostles.

So you are saying that only the Apostles worked miracles?[/quote]

I'm saying there is not evidence that I can see in scripture to believe anyone besides Christ and His apostles performed miracles.

Do you see anyone today who performs miracles?[/quote]

Signs and miracles and spiritual gifts were not limited to the apostles:

"Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people." (Acts 6:8)

"When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. With shrieks, evil spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed." (Acts 8:6-7)

"During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)" (Acts 11:27-28)

"Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven. He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied." (Acts 21:8-9)

Some people believe that the miraculous gifts of the Spirit were given to the apostles in order to confirm their authority, yet all of these other people (above) had miraculous gifts as well. And Paul specifically pointed out that all of the gifts of the Spirit were present in the church at Corinth (1 Corinthians 1:7).

Not only did these people (who were not apostles) prophesy and do amazing signs and wonders through the Holy Spirit, but at Pentecost the apostle Peter said that according to God's Word all Christians have the opportunity to do similar things:

"Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: ... "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy."" (Acts 2:14-18)

God specifically said that He will pour out His Spirit on all types of people, and notice that He did not put any time limit on this. God did not say "I will pour out my Spirit for 60 or 70 years until the last apostle has died." Instead, God said that He will pour out His Spirit on people regardless of gender, age, social position, or time period.

 

[awaken]

So what about Jude 20..when he tells you to build yourself up..praying in the Holy Ghost?

Well lets look at the next verse also:
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

Jude is speaking about confirming and advancing ourselves in our spiritual state of grace and regeneration (like a building) upon the only foundation of faith in Christ. How else would you do this but in the Holy Spirit?
In the Greek, it means "raising and enlarging the building."

We do this by the Spirits motion and inspiration, and not by word of mouth, nor with the tongue only.

Curious, does you version say, "in other tongues, or prayer language?"

No..but Corn. 14:4 says..."He that speaketh in an tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church"

Edifying yourself is not a bad thing..just not in the church setting..because Jude tells us to build ourselves up praying in the Holy Ghost. Funny how Cor. and Jude speak of edifying self and speaking in tongues..

 

[awaken]

Who are the ones speaking in tongues speaking too? (In Acts 2, Acts 11, Acts 19)

Verses?

Sorry, I took for granted you studied this out and knew the verses...
Acts 2:11; Acts 10:46; Acts 19:6...in these verses they were praising God...when we praise God..we are speaking to God, correct?

 

[awaken]

How do you connect this tongues with Paul's teaching, and making him mean that is praying in the spirit?
Even if that were the case here, (supposing Paul said this) would that be the final word on it all?

"If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?" (1 Corinthians 14:16)

At Pentecost the disciples were talking to God in the Holy Spirit (they were praying in the Spirit), they were not sharing the Gospel in tongues.

The disciples were praising God in the Holy Spirit. Bible teachers talk about different types of prayer, such as the prayer of repentance, the prayer of consecration, the prayer of thanksgiving, the prayer of praise, and so on. The disciples were giving God the prayer of praise in the Holy Spirit. They were praying in the Spirit.

Notice that the purpose for tongues at Pentecost was not for sharing the Gospel with foreigners in their native languages. In fact, nowhere does the New Testament say that speaking in tongues is for witnessing to foreigners.