Speculating on the age of earth???

[Kellig]

I have a strange question. I have been reading Genesis, and it occurred to me that the Bible doesn't mention (in Genesis anyway) how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before they ate the fruit. They could have lived there for millions and millions of years before that day... I was wondering if anybody knows if it does mention anywhere else how long they were living there. I mean I know it mentions how old Adam was when he died, but could it be that God didn't start counting until he started dying??? Like I said I am just speculating???

 

[Gun.Man]

I have a strange question. I have been reading Genesis, and it occurred to me that the Bible doesn't mention (in Genesis anyway) how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before they ate the fruit. They could have lived there for millions and millions of years before that day... I was wondering if anybody knows if it does mention anywhere else how long they were living there. I mean I know it mentions how old Adam was when he died, but could it be that God didn't start counting until he started dying??? Like I said I am just speculating???

I believe the Gap Theory makes more sense. I just finished a book by Steven Dill called In the Beginnings that deals with Genesis and reconciles it with science without compromising either. You might consider it as you research the matter for yourself. Your theory would have Adam and Eve living many thousands, or even millions of years without bearing children. It's not logical to me.

 

[handy]

I've speculated the same thing myself. I don't think there is anything in the Scripture that gives an definitive answer to the question.

But, God's first commandment to Adam and Eve was to multiply and we don't see Adam and Eve having children until after they are out of the Garden. So, I'm thinking it probably wasn't all that long.

 

[Riverwolf]

I have a strange question.

Not strange at all.

How old were they when they were "born"?

 

[jasoncran]

if you dont have access to the science forum please pm me or free. this is a science topic.

now then my opinion. theres a host of problems in the geology field on dating the earth. since we are looking at the past(origins) as a forencists does we are all biased. meaning we are looking for our man to be guilty. so if you take the bible literally then you look for evidence to support that ,and if not likewise.

 

[Pard]

How is this a science topic? Definitely a theological one. :yes Ought to go into the Apologetic section.

Uh, they couldn't have lived there very long as they didn't have kids until after getting the boot, and since the whole "multiply" thing was a direct order from God they had to follow it, or else they'd be breaking His law anyways and have gotten the boot for that. So I'd say at the very best they had 8 months in Eden.

That doesn't factor in the possible time it took for them to "grow up". So if Adam was somehow created as a child (a child who could name plants and animals, mind you) then we are looking at somewhere between 13 and maybe 16 years in Eden.

Good question, but ultimately, when trying to date the earth the years spent in Eden are negligible.

 

[Elijah674]

I have a strange question. I have been reading Genesis, and it occurred to me that the Bible doesn't mention (in Genesis anyway) how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before they ate the fruit. They could have lived there for millions and millions of years before that day... I was wondering if anybody knows if it does mention anywhere else how long they were living there. I mean I know it mentions how old Adam was when he died, but could it be that God didn't start counting until he started dying??? Like I said I am just speculating???

Hi, see how I believe it!;)
Re: 4004 BC is the start in Gen. of most Bibles perhaps! Close?

Job says God hung the earth on nothing. How long did that take? And how old agewise was Earth at this point!;)

David said that God SPAKE AND IT WAS DONE! (or stood fast) And how long did that take? And these were all the lower host of heaven as well, huh! (not the third heaven. But how old were they then!;))

Think?.. that Adam was formed of God, and that he was perfect in Their image. And not alive yet. (very good) Lets just say he was a giant in today's sight? Maybe 16' tall, & #1000 in weight, & would soon be how old when God Breathed the Breath of Life into his nostrils & he became a 'living soul'??? (alive)

Perfectly Full grown & one day old, and with [NO MATURITY!] is as 'i' see it! Yet, how old would these Jer. 17:5 men document his age to be?

OK: God spoke the Earth into existence! Man brings a rock or some debris from outer space to look at. How old was it when God spake it into existence? And some are telling us that these ones know more that God does, huh? And most teach it for Truth, not speculation! And that is Not much different than Gen. 3:4 with satan calling God a liar & with many believers of his teaching.
​

But, what is important was that God created [all] of this as being fully mature in 'age' to our thinking, yet, man being created such as perfect before sinning, [was not mature in being fully grown in Obedience.] So we find the forbidden tree right in the midst of the Garden of Eden for that Maturing Required Process, huh! The point is as Heb. 5-6 finds man needing to mature from a 'babe' to an Mature Obedient man!

Such is free-will for the purpose of becoming Perfectly Mature & Eternally Safe to Save, huh! Nah. 1:9

--Elijah

PS: See Psalms 33:6-9 + Job 26:7! You might even understand God some in Psalms 139:15-16??
​

 

[Potluck]

I honestly believe the reason speculation leads one to Adam and Eve being there millions and millions of years is because we simply cannot conceive something being created from absolutely nothing as scripture does suggest. And what of the fishes Christ created to feed the multitudes.. twice.
So being that we can't fathom something from nothing then we have to look for another beginning... one we can understand even if that beginning isn't reality.

We have a preconception that given enough time anything is possible. So we extend our notions of other beginnings over very long periods of time to the point that we can barely imagine the length of time we're talking about in the first place.

We see things, observe things only with the mental capability our minds can grasp whether individually or collectively. I'm not one who believes there is no limit to man's knowledge, individually or collectively... as there are limits to every other living thing on earth there are limits to ours as well. I believe the creation of something from nothing is beyond our capacity to grasp and always will be.

We are creatures of modification, we take one thing and transform it into something else. We always start with something. Always.

Here's something to ponder...
The fishes Christ created were fully matured fish, He didn't wait for them to hatch, to thrive and mature into full grown fish. So, how old were the fish He created? If we believe He did indeed create them on the spot then we can say they were but minutes or hours old. Yet, one sitting far from Jesus during the event of creation may not be privy to what was going on and upon receiving his fish would assume their age at least a few months. Heck, he most likely wouldn't even think about such a thing as age anyway. Why should he? He knows for a fact all fish must be born/hatched, thrive for some time to grow and eventually mature... over a certain period of time.

If we do believe Christ created those fish and the bread then why do we struggle so much with the creation of the universe? Do we then limit God's power that even though smaller things were created instantly God could not have created the universe in a matter of days? Or created it through evolutionary processes because He couldn't or didn't create the universe in a much smaller time frame than millions and millions of years?

Tell me the mechanics, the laws involved, the physics of nature by which something is created from nothing such as Christ's miracle of feeding the multitudes and you will be on your way to understanding the creation of all other things. Start small, then expand the knowledge of creation to include the universe.

 

[Webers_Home]

I have been reading Genesis, and it occurred to me that the Bible doesn't mention (in Genesis anyway) how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before they ate the fruit. They could have lived there for millions and millions of years before that day... I was wondering if anybody knows if it does mention anywhere else how long they were living there. I mean I know it mentions how old Adam was when he died, but could it be that God didn't start counting until he started dying?

That's a very thoughtful question; and I agree it's entirely possible that God didn't start counting the years of Adam's life till after he lost access to the tree of life because up till then you couldn't say Adam was X-number of years old because "old" didn't apply in the garden.

It's interesting you would say "started dying" because I believe that is exactly what God meant when He said :

And Yhvh God commanded the man, saying : Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die. (Gen 2:16-17)

In other words; on the day Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, he lost the blessing of perpetual youth and began to debilitate so that biblically the aging process is just as much death as the moment of one's final breath. Even today, Man enjoys a very brief shelf life— he's fresh for only a short time; 32-34 years at most before he begins to fall apart; and from that point on; Adam's progeny are dead men walking. Were babies packaged and put on the shelves of supermarket dairy cases; those born today would be would be date-stamped with : Best if sold by June 17, 2043-2045.

The fading process is relentless; it's slow, but it's also persistent. Debilitation is like Arnold Swarzenegger's movie character; the Terminator : it feels neither pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop— ever —until you are deceased.

When I was in high school; Hugh Hefner was a very handsome man. But just look at him today. Mr. Hefner is grizzled and looks like he died once already. Sean Connery was a gorgeous hunk of manhood back in the mid 1960's when he debuted as James Bond in the 007 movies. You wouldn't recognize him today.

Numbers of the world's citizens cannot justify their existence— they have no good reason to be alive, and they see no logic in their deaths either. They want their lives to count for something, but underneath it all, they're fully aware that in the grand scheme of things: their life counts for nothing— just another nondescript organic blip on the cosmological radar screen; and just as expendable as the skulls in a Borg collective.

As I decline and wax older and older, I feel a sadness for the loss of my youth. There was a time when I was bright-eyed and bushy-tailed : long-winded, active, loaded with stamina and vitality; and could get by with very little rest. The skin on my face, and under my chin, was tight, and my middle was lean and defined. Today I look all sag-bottomed, melted, and flaccid; and the skin on my neck is drooping and developing the texture of tortoise hide.

The great cowboy artist Charles Russell once lamented that time traded him wrinkles for teeth. Me too. I've lost teeth, some are capped, and my gums have receded. While that was happening inside my mouth, the shape of my face was undergoing alteration too until today, at 67, the ram-rod straight chiseled young man with shiny brown hair, rippling muscles, and soft hazel eyes I was at 25 has disappeared; replaced by a slumping arthritic grandpa with yellow teeth, declining short term memory, bags under his eyes, brittle gray filaments on his head instead of the suppleness and sheen of LΌRÉAL tresses, and the corners of his mouth turned down giving him the appearance of an old crank; and with about as much sex appeal as a catcher's mitt.

You know that handsome young hunk playing Green Lantern? Well, except for the obvious differences in our facial features; that hunk was me when I was young. But one day, not too long from now, that hunk will be me as I am now; and his pretty co-star just another discarded twig of yard debris.

†. Isa 40:6-8 . . The voice said : Cry out! And he said : What shall I cry? Cry all flesh is grass, and all its loveliness is like the flower of the field. The grass withers, the flower fades, because the breath of Yhvh blows upon it. Surely the people are grass. The grass withers, the flower fades.

C.L.I.F.F.
<O:p</O:p|

 

[Webers_Home]

And what of the fishes Christ created to feed the multitudes.. twice. The fishes Christ created were fully matured fish

I seriously doubt the Lord "created" the loaves and fishes since God finished creating everything for the cosmos on the sixth day. I think Christ merely multiplied what was on hand similar in some respects to the way that God multiplied Adam to produce an Eve. Compare 1Kgs 17:12-16 where the widow's flour and oil didn't run out during Elijah's stay in her home. There was no creating going on in that house; just multiplication of resources already at-hand. It's sort of like planting a single tomato seed and anon getting back a shopping bag of tomatoes in its place; along with more seeds too; all from the germ of that one lone tomato seed. In farm-speak; that's called progeny.

C.L.I.F.F.
<O:p</O:p|<O:p</O:p

 

[Potluck]

just multiplication of resources already at-hand.

Sounds good but if I have 3 apples how do I multiply them to get a dozen apples without adding more apples to the original 3?
In this case the term "multiply" is a bit misleading suggesting an "addition" without creation. How do I multiply resources to get more when more never existed in the first place?

2X3 doesn't equal a dozen. 5 apples gives me 5 apples. I have to add at least 7 so where did the additional seven come from?

Seeds? He didn't "grow" the fish in one morning and I seriously doubt there was enough water around or enough time to nurture the fishes to maturity even if he had the eggs to begin with. I think if He tried that He'd lose the attention of His audience.

I think Christ merely....

If the manufacturing industry can harness your view of "multiply" without creation I believe we'd be on our way to the most prosperous era known to man. Shouldn't be hard to do since Christ merely fed the multitudes from just a few fish. No big thing. Simple as falling off a log.

 

[Elijah674]

Sounds good but if I have 3 apples how do I multiply them to get a dozen apples without adding more apples to the original 3?
In this case the term "multiply" is a bit misleading suggesting an "addition" without creation. How do I multiply resources to get more when more never existed in the first place?

2X3 doesn't equal a dozen. 5 apples gives me 5 apples. I have to add at least 7 so where did the additional seven come from?

Seeds? He didn't "grow" the fish in one morning and I seriously doubt there was enough water around or enough time to nurture the fishes to maturity even if he had the eggs to begin with. I think if He tried that He'd lose the attention of His audience.



If the manufacturing industry can harness your view of "multiply" without creation I believe we'd be on our way to the most prosperous era known to man. Shouldn't be hard to do since Christ merely feed the multitudes. No big thing. Simple as falling off a log.

Hey, this was good for an maturing 'mind' as well! Good thoughts.

You say:
Here's something to ponder...
The fishes Christ created were fully matured fish, He didn't wait for them to hatch, to thrive and mature into full grown fish. So, how old were the fish He created? If we believe He did indeed create them on the spot then we can say they were but minutes or hours old. Yet, one sitting far from Jesus during the event of creation may not be privy to what was going on and upon receiving his fish would assume their age at least a few months. Heck, he most likely wouldn't even think about such a thing as age anyway. Why should he? He knows for a fact all fish must be born/hatched, thrive for some time to grow and eventually mature... over a certain period of time.

 

[WIP]

I think we put too much effort into answering this question when it really doesn't matter. What matters is that God created everything including mankind and everything is His design. The time frame is immaterial.

 

[Kellig]

God's first commandment to Adam and Eve was to multiply and we don't see Adam and Eve having children until after they are out of the Garden. So, I'm thinking it probably wasn't all that long.

Oddly enough, this is the scripture that got me thinking that Adam and Eve may have been around for millions of years. The Bible may not have recorded all the children born to Eve before the fall. It does say that

Genesis 3: 16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;

This scripture seems to imply that previously she had no pain with bearing children.

And where did all the people from Genesis 4 come from? Could it be that because there was no pain in childbirth, that she loved her children, but maybe they were not as precious??? Or... God was available and had fellowship with them face to face in the Garden, maybe she just basically gave them to God to take care of after they reached a certain age??? I would if I could, knowing that He would be a much better parent than I could ever be. Not suggesting at all that Adam and Eve were like animals, but it seems like animals don't have as much pain with childbirth as humans do, and they just turn their children over to God after a period of time???

Of course this is all just speculation, but kind of interesting.

 

[jasoncran]

genesis is a historical account that hits the hight point.when we take american history do we study all the years , i mean all of them from the discovery to present or the important dates and wars and people? look at genesis from that angle and you will get the idea.

 

[Elijah674]

I think we put too much effort into answering this question when it really doesn't matter. What matters is that God created everything including mankind and everything is His design. The time frame is immaterial.

Your post sounds like a last day one! (Matt. 25's ALL Sleeping)
Do you not understand that every seventh day was the Birthday of Creation?? The Godheads MEMORIAL!

Surely 'few' at least BELIEVE that the Lord's [NAME] ENDURETH FOREVER??
Note just this verse of Inspiration in Psalms 135:13

'Thy Name, O Lord, ENDURETH FOREVER; [and THY MEMORIAL, O Lord, THROUGHOUT ALL GENERATIONS].'

And you post ..
'The time frame is immaterial' While God's Word says: Exod. 20:8-11 + 1 John 2:4

--Elijah

 

[Kellig]

Yeah, I agree with you Jason, I mean it doesn't really have anything to do with my salvation, and as far as I am concerned, the origin of Science is the Bible, but no matter what non believing "Scientist" or anybody says. God is real, and my life and your life, and countless other lives are living testaments to that.

I believe that the truth lies in the Spiritual and the lie is the physical.

Hebrews 11

By Faith We Understand

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-30170">1</sup> Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

It's not actually for me that I am speculating about this. I have had several people I know, including my husband that have been tripped up by the whole 6,000 years thing, and I would like to feel good about offering a plausible explanation, (or speculation). That is why I asked. I wanted to make sure there was no definitive answer on the age of the earth. Thank you everyone for your help. Also if anyone else has any other Biblical references they can share about this, that would be great!

 

[jasoncran]

Yeah, I agree with you Jason, I mean it doesn't really have anything to do with my salvation, and as far as I am concerned, the origin of Science is the Bible, but no matter what non believing "Scientist" or anybody says. God is real, and my life and your life, and countless other lives are living testaments to that.

I believe that the truth lies in the Spiritual and the lie is the physical.

Hebrews 11

By Faith We Understand

<SUP id=en-NKJV-30170 class=versenum>1</SUP> Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

It's not actually for me that I am speculating about this. I have had several people I know, including my husband that have been tripped up by the whole 6,000 years thing, and I would like to feel good about offering a plausible explanation, (or speculation). That is why I asked. I wanted to make sure there was no definitive answer on the age of the earth. Thank you everyone for your help. Also if anyone else has any other Biblical references they can share about this, that would be great!

i can do way better then that. i can pm you a whole creationist site with men and women who are knowledgable on this matter and some are biology students in college.

 

[Kellig]

That would be great Jason. Thank you!

 

[Nick]

Moving this to the Apologetics section folks.