Spurgeon?

[electedbyhim]

Oh I know .before ,long ago we had the sole admin team of Rick w and vic c .the later was reformed and educated me on what the Catholic apologists say and also my church being reformed rents it sanctuary to the Spanish pentacostal church who worship leader was in trainer to be a father .he called in wholly given to idolatry and was called out of it .

Not my first rodeo on how they do that .

Jude 1:3-4

Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you exhorting that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.



Grace and peace to you.

 

[Free]

Faith alone for one

“Faith alone” condemned by sacred scripture!

Matt 19:17 commandments
Matt 16:25 lose you’re life / rev 12:11
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
Phil 1:29 faith and suffering rom 8:17 2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 14:12 commandments & patience

Rev 12:11 over cane by the blood of the Lamb not by “faith alone”

Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13

Faith:
Hope:
Charity:

1 cor 13:2 even all faith without charity (Deut 6:4) avails nothing!

Never “faith alone”!

It appears you don't understand what is meant by "faith alone." It speaks of justification by the means of faith alone, not sanctification.

Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. (ESV)

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (ESV)

(It's best just to read the first five or so chapters of Romans, as the whole point of them is justification by faith.)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (ESV)

So, if you want to brand Spurgeon, or any other, as a heretic for adhering to justification by faith alone, you had better understand what is meant by the term and what the Bible says about it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Did he teach “Faith alone”?
Did he believe the perpetual virginity of Mary?

What does reformed mean?

Mary got quite busy after the birth of Jesus.
Joseph knew not Mary,until after the birth of Jesus.

 

[donadams]

It appears you don't understand what is meant by "faith alone." It speaks of justification by the means of faith alone, not sanctification.

Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. (ESV)

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (ESV)

(It's best just to read the first five or so chapters of Romans, as the whole point of them is justification by faith.)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (ESV)

So, if you want to brand Spurgeon, or any other, as a heretic for adhering to justification by faith alone, you had better understand what is meant by the term and what the Bible says about it.

Do you believe scripture?

That includes 1tim 3:15 the church is the pillar of truth and the church condemned the doctrine of justification by faith alone which you must believe if you believe the Bible! Also must hear the church Matt 18:17 must hear the apostles to hear Christ Lk 10:16 the apostles in the church are lead into all truth Jn 8:32 & 16:13 then they teach us Lk 1:4 Matt 28:19acts 8:31 etc

“If anyone says a man is justified by “faith alone” let him be anathema!
Apostolic council of trent

More scripture
Charity

Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.

1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!

If we are saved by faith alone then when we first believed we would be saved?

Romans 13:11
…our salvation nearer than when we believed.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Matt 5 the merciful obtain mercy!

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

 

[Free]

Do you believe scripture?

That includes 1tim 3:15 the church is the pillar of truth and the church condemned the doctrine of justification by faith alone which you must believe if you believe the Bible! Also must hear the church Matt 18:17 must hear the apostles to hear Christ Lk 10:16 the apostles in the church are lead into all truth Jn 8:32 & 16:13 then they teach us Lk 1:4 Matt 28:19acts 8:31 etc

“If anyone says a man is justified by “faith alone” let him be anathema!
Apostolic council of trent

The early church was a pillar of truth, but when the church politicized Christianity in the 4th century, that pillar started to crumble, as is evident by the quote from the Council of Trent that you provide.

More scripture
Charity

Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

I have no idea what you're trying to say with these verses. Anyone, even an atheist, can quote Scripture.

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.

1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!

No. Your conclusion doesn't follow. Paul is not talking about salvation in this context.

If we are saved by faith alone then when we first believed we would be saved?

Romans 13:11
…our salvation nearer than when we believed.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Matt 5 the merciful obtain mercy!

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Please, learn the difference between justification, sanctification, and glorification, that Scripture speaks of salvation as being a past event, an ongoing process, and a future event.

 

[donadams]

Mary got quite busy after the birth of Jesus.
Joseph knew not Mary,until after the birth of Jesus.

Where does scripture say they had sex? Lk 1:34 no sex period

 

[Iconoclast]

Where does scripture say they had sex? Lk 1:34 no sex period

Adam knew eve and she conceived.
Gen4:1
Gen.4:25 and Adam knew his wife again;and she bare a Son..
Joseph knew not Mary,UNTIL AFTER the birth of Jesus
To know is to have sex, in the bible.

 

[donadams]

The early church was a pillar of truth, but when the church politicized Christianity in the 4th century, that pillar started to crumble, as is evident by the quote from the Council of Trent that you provide.

Not what Christ and scripture say
Matt 16:18-19 shall NOT prevail
Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 apostles l as unto all truth teach us without error Matt 28:19 etc.

I have no idea what you're trying to say with these verses. Anyone, even an atheist, can quote Scripture.


No. Your conclusion doesn't follow. Paul is not talking about salvation in this context.


Please, learn the difference between justification, sanctification, and glorification, that Scripture speaks of salvation as being a past event, an ongoing process, and a future event.

You’re idea of salvation does not include charity or divine love!
Scripture says that’s anathema

 

[Free]

Not what Christ and scripture say
Matt 16:18-19 shall NOT prevail
Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 apostles l as unto all truth teach us without error Matt 28:19 etc.

I didn't say that the gates of hell prevailed; I clearly implied that they didn't. Jesus was correct because he kept some believers from the corrupting influence of church error. Jesus never said the church would be perfect and always without error, only that the gates of hell wouldn't prevail, that is, that the church would never cease to exist.

I highly recommend reading Bullies and Saints, by John Dickson. It's an honest, balanced look at church history.

You’re idea of salvation does not include charity or divine love!
Scripture says that’s anathema

Now you're misrepresenting my position, probably because you still don't understand the differences between justification, sanctification, and glorification. Study these things first before making false claims about someone else's position.

 

[jasonc]

The more Iook at church history ,it's flawed but I see the mercy and grace of God never ceasing .

That's only got to be a miracle that our poor out there theology hasn't been a castrophe that the Bible isn't lost .

 

[donadams]

Adam knew eve and she conceived.
Gen4:1
Gen.4:25 and Adam knew his wife again;and she bare a Son..
Joseph knew not Mary,UNTIL AFTER the birth of Jesus
To know is to have sex, in the bible.

I agree not where does it say Joseph knew Mary?

 

[donadams]

The early church was a pillar of truth, but when the church politicized Christianity in the 4th century, that pillar started to crumble, as is evident by the quote from the Council of Trent that you provide.


I have no idea what you're trying to say with these verses. Anyone, even an atheist, can quote Scripture.


No. Your conclusion doesn't follow. Paul is not talking about salvation in this context.


Please, learn the difference between justification, sanctification, and glorification, that Scripture speaks of salvation as being a past event, an ongoing process, and a future event.

No the church “is” the pillar of truth till Christ returns!
Christ is the truth!
The church is the truth!
Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32

 

[donadams]

I didn't say that the gates of hell prevailed; I clearly implied that they didn't. Jesus was correct because he kept some believers from the corrupting influence of church error. Jesus never said the church would be perfect and always without error, only that the gates of hell wouldn't prevail, that is, that the church would never cease to exist.

I highly recommend reading Bullies and Saints, by John Dickson. It's an honest, balanced look at church history.


Now you're misrepresenting my position, probably because you still don't understand the differences between justification, sanctification, and glorification. Study these things first before making false claims about someone else's position.

Please explain your understanding of these? Here is mine

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace applied to our souls in the sacraments, prayer, virtue and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[Free]

No the church “is” the pillar of truth till Christ returns!
Christ is the truth!
The church is the truth!
Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32

As I suggested, read Bullies and Saints for an honest look at the history of the church and Christianity. Sticking our heads in the sand and willfully ignoring all the evil and sin done by the church and those who claim to be Christians is unbecoming of those who profess Christ.

Jesus is the head of the church, he is not the church. Scripture is the truth, not the church. The church is a pillar of truth insofar as it upholds the truth of Scripture, but it has often failed to do so at times throughout history, sometimes significantly. Even Revelation 2 and 3, in the letters to the churches, points this out. The Bible is the final and decisive authority, not the church.

 

[electedbyhim]

No the church “is” the pillar of truth till Christ returns!
Christ is the truth!
The church is the truth!
Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32

The body of Christ, the church, is made up of sinners.

The only truth we have is Jesus Christ through His written word.

The 66 books of the Bible.

I was raised Roman Catholic and the Lord has opened my eyes to His truth through His word.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[donadams]

As I suggested, read Bullies and Saints for an honest look at the history of the church and Christianity. Sticking our heads in the sand and willfully ignoring all the evil and sin done by the church and those who claim to be Christians is unbecoming of those who profess Christ.

Jesus is the head of the church, he is not the church. Scripture is the truth, not the church. The church is a pillar of truth insofar as it upholds the truth of Scripture, but it has often failed to do so at times throughout history, sometimes significantly. Even Revelation 2 and 3, in the letters to the churches, points this out. The Bible is the final and decisive authority, not the church.

Not what scripture actually says!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[donadams]

The body of Christ, the church, is made up of sinners.

The only truth we have is Jesus Christ through His written word.

The 66 books of the Bible.

I was raised Roman Catholic and the Lord has opened my eyes to His truth through His word.

Grace and peace to you.

We must be instructed/ taught
Otherwise it the blind leading the blind

Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[donadams]

Matt 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: (teacher) for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Call no man teacher (doctor)

Many videos I’ve seen where the evangelist is exalting himself and also being exalted by allowing himself to be called “doctor” (teacher)
RC Sproll John MacArthur etc.

Where’s a raving fundamentalist when you need one? Lol!

 

[Free]

Matt 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: (teacher) for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Call no man teacher (doctor)

Many videos I’ve seen where the evangelist is exalting himself and also being exalted by allowing himself to be called “doctor” (teacher)
RC Sproll John MacArthur etc.

Where’s a raving fundamentalist when you need one? Lol!

How do you get "doctor" from "teacher"? "Doctor" is just a reference to a level of education that has been reached. A teacher can be anyone. Also, we see that God has appointed and gifted some to be teachers--1 Cor 12:28,29; Eph 4:11; 2 Tim 1:11. Paul claimed to be a teacher (1 Tim 2:7) and the writer of Hebrews said that some of whom he was addressing "ought to be teachers" (5:12).

What about "call no man your father upon the earth"? In the RCC, priests are often referred to as "father," are they not? They've been exalting themselves for centuries. Maybe look at your own house and clean it up before pointing things out in others' houses.

 

[donadams]

How do you get "doctor" from "teacher"? "Doctor" is just a reference to a level of education that has been reached. A teacher can be anyone. Also, we see that God has appointed and gifted some to be teachers--1 Cor 12:28,29; Eph 4:11; 2 Tim 1:11. Paul claimed to be a teacher (1 Tim 2:7) and the writer of Hebrews said that some of whom he was addressing "ought to be teachers" (5:12).

What about "call no man your father upon the earth"? In the RCC, priests are often referred to as "father," are they not? They've been exalting themselves for centuries. Maybe look at your own house and clean it up before pointing things out in others' houses.

Dictionary.com
Teacher noun:
a person who teachesor instructs, especially as a profession; instructor.
a person who has been awarded a doctor's degree: He is a Doctor of Philosophy.
I don’t have a problem with these is applied in a proper sense, but oppose the prideful self-appointed ones who exalted themselves