Star Fast Episode III: Repent of the Sin

[ndp]

Check out this site - http://www.starfast.org

It's encouraging Christians to "fast" from going to see the new Star Wars movie in a theatre. Quoted from the site: "Star Fast is an opportunity to take a stand with Jesus, reject the world with joy, and deny ourselves as Jesus commanded us to do. Together, we we will seek the light of God's face rather than the light of a movie screen."

--ndp

 

[Diencephalon]

Yeah but... I know George Lucas bombed the first two, but jeez.

 

[Everyday Person]

Heh, thanks for the laugh.

 

[Rayllee]

Maybe I am just naive... but why is this particular movie such a big deal? Can't Christians become "engrossed" in any number of movies. I was thrilled to find the classic "Pride and Prejudice" on DVD... does that mean I am making this movie into an idol!?! Is taking enjoyment from watching a movie making it an idol over God, I think it can be but I don't think we need to ban every movie that people are excited to see either. I think this is pretty extreme. :roll:

 

[element80]

45 people, huh? Can't argue with those numbers.

 

[JoelW]

...

Wow...

The website says that it is not "Legalism" to fast from watching episode 3. Then, why make Christians who want to see it feel like they are doing something wrong?

Personally, I don't care anything about the upcoming movie. I have never really been a star wars fan, except for the videogames. But, to me it's pretty lousy to make believers feel like they are wrong for wanting to see it.

A fast should never be "Imposed" on people either subtily or blatantly. If God is not calling someone to fast, then neither should Christians.

 

[ndp]

Rayllee,

With all due respect, I think you're over-reacting somewhat and even being a little defensive. Of course Christians can become engrossed in other movies apart from Star Wars. But what's the problem with calling for Christians to deny themselves in one small area in order to give glory to God?

element80,

So it's all about numbers, is it? Good thing Noah or Jesus didn't look at things that way! Actually, I think its rather sad that only 45 people love God enough to deny themselves a mere movie for Him! Whatever happened to all these people who claim to be "on fire" for God?

JoelW,

I don't see anywhere on that site where they are "imposing" a fast on anyone. They're asking people to make a committment to deny themselves a movie. If people don't want to sign up, they don't have to. Whether someone feels lousy for wanting to go see the movie or not depends more on their own conscience and their love for God. People who get defensive about stuff like this are probably the ones who have a problem and should sign up.

--ndp

PS. And, yes, I do like the Star Wars movies and, yes, I did want to go see Episode III and, yes, I did sign up for this because it made me stop and pray it over and I think it's a great idea.

 

[JoelW]

...

Of course, if you feel the conviction to fast from this movie then that is alright. But, I did see some subtle implications from that site that would seem to lead people to think that desiring to see the film would not be right in God's sight. Statements like... "Among these are Christians who get just as excited and engrossed in Star Wars as everyone else. Though they deny they are engrossed, they declare by their actions that they are (Denying God) Titus 1;16."

That is my problem with the site. Not that the person is asking people to fast, but that the person is implying that the desire to see the film is a sin. It should be a heart-examination issue. I agree that if a person is engrossed too much into the anticipation then that person needs to consider waiting until they are closer to the Lord before they see it. But, as far as I have seen on that site, there is no other alternative given to Christians. There is no... "If you don't feel the need to fast, then by all means, go and see the movie. It's no sin to do so..." etc. The only thing that I see is a subtle implication that Christians "Should" fast from this movie. What if a believer does not feel the need to fast from watching it? Does that mean they are committing a sin? If not, then why didn't that person include statements that would not sound like he is condemning Christians who go to see the movie?

Even the very title of the site suggests in a (Very strong) way that watching episode 3 is going to be a sin. And, reading the article beneath it won't help, because there is no other real alternatives for Christians except fasting the film. The author says... "Out of love for those who are watching star wars on the way to Hell, Christians and Churches everywhere (Should Be) setting an example by (Fasting from this movie)..." If the author had of included in that statement... "(Only) if they feel God leading them to do so." then it would not have come off sounding so judgemental of Christians who "Don't" feel the need to fast from the movie. If you look at the tone from the article, specifically the third paragraph, you will see that the author does not address sinners directly. As a matter of fact, he/she seems to suggest that it is (Christians) that are on the way to Hell for even (Desiring) to see the movie. That is legalism plain and simple. Many Christians are actually strengthened in their walk with God through watching films like this while many other Christians would not be.

So, that is the only reason that I got defensive. The article is terribly one-sided. The author seems to have good intentions, but I don't feel the need to fast from episode 3. So, according to the tone of that article, I am simply not where I should be with God. And, my relationship with God is harmed because I don't feel the need to fast the film. And, even if I (Did) have the desire to see it, it is Not up to that author to judge my walk with Christ simply because I don't feel like he/she does on this subject.

 

[KnarfKS]

Can I still watch Episode III as soon as it is released on DVD?
If it's God's will. But, if you're already thinking about that, you definitely need to extend your fast.

Huh??? You have got to be kidding me.
I have to have God's will to see a movie? If the movie was an addiction or had gratuitous scenes or something maybe. But to just go see a movie I really don't think God cares. And if someone thinks about seeing a movie it is bad???
I wanted to see the next installments of the LOTR so am I in sin? I didn't wait in line for days, or obsessively do anything, but since I wanted to see the movie it is a sin?

This is a form of legalism, God does not command us to deny pleasure as long as it is not put before Him. Otherwise if this is what they are saying, this is an almost 2000 yr old cult.

2. Realize that God regrets making you; you are worthless and hell bound.
3. Sit down, count the cost of salvation and give up everything to pay the price. Learn to despise money, reject the world, and become an alien.

The statements above are from "how to really be saved"
And also look at the "out of context" page.
I can't believe anything these people say. This is gnosticism therefore heresy. I advise everyone here to avoid this page in the future.

 

[element80]

element80,

So it's all about numbers, is it? Good thing Noah or Jesus didn't look at things that way! Actually, I think its rather sad that only 45 people love God enough to deny themselves a mere movie for Him! Whatever happened to all these people who claim to be "on fire" for God?

How does my going to see a movie mean that I love God less? If you feel God is convicting you to give up something, then by all means do it, but don't judge others for not following. If God isn't leading them to do it, then don't worry about it.

And I apoligize for my previous comment. It was a little out of line.

 

[ndp]

How does my going to see a movie mean that I love God less?

With all due respect, that's a defensive way to phrase the question. It might be better to think about it like this: If you love God so much, if He is really the most important thing in your life, then why would you not want to deny yourself a mere movie as a witness to your love for Him?

If you feel God is convicting you to give up something, then by all means do it, but don't judge others for not following. If God isn't leading them to do it, then don't worry about it.

Again, sorry, but this all seems rather defensive. You seem to be putting all this in a very negative way. Isn't love about doing things that you don't have to do? What good is it if God has to convict us or force us to do things all the time? Are we really so legalistic that we can't just give up a simple movie out of love for God?

Did Jesus have to tell Zacchaeus to climb the tree? Did He have to tell the woman to pour the perfume on His head?

Come on. Don't just give knee-jerk reactions because you don't like the idea of giving up a movie. Think about this seriously. If nothing else, that's what the site seems to want people to do.

And I apoligize for my previous comment. It was a little out of line.

No problem.

--ndp

 

[ndp]

I have to have God's will to see a movie?

Umm, sorry, but don't you have to have God's will to do everything? Isn't that the whole point of being a Christian? :-? "Not my will, but yours be done!"

But to just go see a movie I really don't think God cares.

Again, sorry, but I would think God cares about every aspect of our lives. Right? Or am I missing something?

This is a form of legalism, God does not command us to deny pleasure as long as it is not put before Him.

Well, Jesus does tell us that anyone who follows Him must deny themselves. It seems to me your just saying that you can do whatever you want as long as you say you're not putting it before God. Okay, so how do you know you're not putting it before God if you never seek His will in everything?

The statements above are from "how to really be saved"
And also look at the "out of context" page.
I can't believe anything these people say. This is gnosticism therefore heresy. I advise everyone here to avoid this page in the future.

All the statements have Bible references and seem perfectly straightforward. I don't see how you can call it gnosticism when it's all based on the Bible. :-?

--ndp

 

[JoelW]

...

I think the issue here is not about our "Willingness" to fast the movie, but about... (What is God saying to me?)

The article in question makes it sound like any Christian who sees this film is showing that they are not fully devoted to God. But, the author of that article never stops to think that God may just as well (Want) certain Christians to have a little pleasure. Paul said to Timothy... "Tell those who are rich in this world not to be high-minded and trust in uncertain riches. But tell them to trust in the Living God who (Gives us Richly) ALL things to (Enjoy) (1st Timothy 6;17)."

Now, a Christian who spends all their time in the persuit of pleasure has already been warned in Scripture, (2nd Timothy 3;4) so that's not the issue. The issue is that it is not right to take one's own Christian experience and try to mold other believers into it. Christians are not supposed to be the same. That is why Paul said to the Roman Christians, who was actually condemning other believers in what some of them allowed, and what some of them did not allow "Let every one of you be persuaded in your own minds"(Romans 14;2-5). In that way there was no conflict between Christians. Some thought is was alright to eat meat, and some thought that it was not. And, confusion and bickering arose because of it. But, if everyone was persuaded in their own minds rather than trying to force their opinions on others, there was no fighting.

Paul made it clear that what a person eats has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God... "For the Kingdom of God is (not) meat and drink, but righteousness, joy and peace in the Holy Spirit"(Romans 14;17). He even told the Colossian church in the book of Colossians... "Let (No One) condemn you for what you eat and drink, or for not keeping certain holy days."(Colossians 2;16-23)

So, if a person does not feel God leading them to fast from Episode 3, then they are not obligated to do so. God gives richly all things to enjoy. His Kingdom is not harmed just because Christians want to see a movie and have a little pleasure. Even medical science shows that a person who does not laugh and enjoy themselves in their lifetime will actually shorten their own life-span. And, what does the Bible say... "A merry heart doeth (Good), like a medicine." (Proverbs 17;22).

So, it is Not God's will that we live in this world without pleasure. That is nothing but a slow suicide to even think that way.

 

[guibox]

Telling people they should fast during a movie because they spend too much time seeking pleasure instead of God is ridiculous. Why Star Wars? Why not Lord of the Rings? Why not any movie?

Objecting to a movie due to morally unsound issues is one thing but why pick on Star Wars without giving some sound reasoning (i.e., that the fantasy it promotes is new ag-ish? Not that I believe that but that was the reasoning when I was a kid and at least it is a valid reason).

The whole thing sounds like a big joke from what I saw on the website. If it isn't, it is even more pathetic that it is not.

 

[ndp]

Telling people they should fast during a movie because they spend too much time seeking pleasure instead of God is ridiculous. Why Star Wars? Why not Lord of the Rings? Why not any movie?

I think that's the point. They're just using Star Wars as an "object lesson." That's the way I see it, anyway.

Objecting to a movie due to morally unsound issues is one thing but why pick on Star Wars without giving some sound reasoning.

I think the "reasoning" is that people get very engrossed in Star Wars, so it's a good example to pick on - as a representative of how people get engrossed in movies.

--ndp

 

[ndp]

Re: ...

So, if a person does not feel God leading them to fast from Episode 3, then they are not obligated to do so.

Once again, the problem seems to be how you are choosing to phrase all this - which, I suppose, reflects your general attitude. It's sort of like, "If God doesn't specifically tell me I can't do it, then I can do whatever I want."

It's sort of like saying, "I'm going to walk off this cliff just because I want to, and if God doesn't stop me then it must be okay!"

What I've been trying to point out is the more surrendered, submissive - or Christian, to be blunt - way of putting it would be, "If God doesn't specifically tell me to do it, then I'm not going to do it just to please myself."

Again, it's like the "golden rule." There are two ways of lookng at it. There's the negative way - "Don't do anything to others than you wouldn't want them to do to you." Or there's the more positive way - "Do to others what you would have them do to you." Jesus used the more positive way because it represents a more God-centered, rather than self-centered approach.

I wonder, did Jesus go around saying, "Well, if God doesn't tell me I can't do it, I can do whatever I want." Or did He seek the Father's will in everything and was led by the Holy Spirit, instead of just waiting to be convicted not to do something that He wanted to do.

Seriously, there's a big difference. You might almost say it's the difference between being a Christian and just calling yourself a Christian.

--ndp

 

[KnarfKS]

Umm, sorry, but don't you have to have God's will to do everything? Isn't that the whole point of being a Christian? "Not my will, but yours be done!"

That is hypercalvinism, and I don't believe in that. I believe in calvinistic doctrines, but this is taking it to an extreme that is not biblical. God doesn't sit over us telling us every single moment what to do, there are times when He definately guides us to specific things, but me going or not going to see a movie doesn't have anything to do with His will unless in that instance He wants me elsewhere or the movie is just not good to see because of content.

Quote:
But to just go see a movie I really don't think God cares.

Again, sorry, but I would think God cares about every aspect of our lives. Right? Or am I missing something?

He does care if it is impeding our relationship to Him, other believers or holding us back from something He wants us to do, otherwise no.

Quote:
This is a form of legalism, God does not command us to deny pleasure as long as it is not put before Him.


Well, Jesus does tell us that anyone who follows Him must deny themselves. It seems to me your just saying that you can do whatever you want as long as you say you're not putting it before God. Okay, so how do you know you're not putting it before God if you never seek His will in everything?

Scripture, prayer, the holy spirit's conviction, other believers calling me out :D I do seek his will in anything, but sometimes I believe He really doesn't care if we go see a movie or watch a sporting event or something like that unless it is taking away from something more important.

Quote:
The statements above are from "how to really be saved"
And also look at the "out of context" page.
I can't believe anything these people say. This is gnosticism therefore heresy. I advise everyone here to avoid this page in the future.


All the statements have Bible references and seem perfectly straightforward. I don't see how you can call it gnosticism when it's all based on the Bible.

Your kidding me right? God regrets ever making us??? no
The context section was completely bogus. According to them we can interpret the bible according to a feeling ( the holy spirit does lead us, but it doesn't stray from the meaning of the bible ever). Thats how cults start, ask the mormons.
It is gnosticism because from what I am reading they have some weird idea that anything physically here is evil. That is what the gnostics believed and they were heretics. If we should boycott this movie why shouldn't we boycott sports, TV altogether, radio, plays, public events or anything that non-believers have ever done?

Here is a wonderful scripture to think upon.


1 Timothy 4

1. Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2. speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
3. forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
4. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving;
5. for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6. If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
7. But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself rather to godliness.

 

[JoelW]

...

Well honestly, I think you are acting more un-christian than anyone here. No one as far as I have read has questioned your relationship with God, but you have acted as if everyone who does not see it "Your" way is unchristian. And, you will quickly try and correct me by saying, "It's God's way", but you are wrong. God's way is to get the log out of your own eye before pointing at the specks in other eyes.

No one here has said that they would not fast the movie if God told them to. The whole point is that you are assuming that a Christian has to fast the film or they are not Christians at all. And, the point that you made about walking over a cliff is not even accurate because I already (Know Better) than that. God does not have to tell me not to walk over a cliff because I already have the knowledge to know what would happen if I did.

The point is that pleasure in and of itself is Never "Wrong". Did you know that extreme self-denial is a sin? Jesus Christ Himself said "Love your neighbors just as much as you (Love Yourself)". So, while self-denial is noble, it can become a perverted doctrine if allowed to go to extremes. That is why Paul said to the Corinthian church in 1st Corinthians chapter 7 for everyone to have their own spouses because of their lack of self-control. He was not condoning their desires, nor was he condemning them. He was only condemning the in-appropriate ways that the Corinthian Christians tried to fulfill their desires, and offering them a "Safe" way of getting those desires met. Spouses.

Contrastly, if a Christian spends all their time in self-denial, they will eventually become bitter. You can't love your neighbor as you love yourself if you refuse to love yourself. And, if you hate yourself you cannot love your neighbor because if you can't love the person closest to you (Yourself) then you will never be able love others. That is why Paul said that even if he gave his all for the poor, if he did not love them it was a meaningless sacrifice (1st Corinthians 13).

So, self-denial has it's proper expression. But, take it to the extremes and you will grow to be a Pharisee who thinks him/herself to be Godly, but will only be a merciless judge who looks down on everyone else who can't live up to your expectations of them. Remember, it was the repentant tax-collector who went down to his house "Justified" rather than the Pharisee who fasted twice a week.

Honestly, I would rather be around prostitutes and tax-collectors than a stuck-up Christian.

 

[JoelW]

...

Hey ndp...
I really am sorry about that last comment I made in my last post. It was stupid of me to call you stuck up. I'll be more patient next time.

 

[ndp]

Re: ...

God's way is to get the log out of your own eye before pointing at the specks in other eyes.

That's true. But your making the assumption that I haven't already got the log out of my own eye on this issue.

The whole point is that you are assuming that a Christian has to fast the film or they are not Christians at all.

No, I didn't say that at all. What I was pointing out is that, as the site puts it, God shouldn't have to tell you to fast from the movie - He should have to tell you not to fast from it. It's a difference in perspective again, you see?

As I said earlier, it comes down to love. If you have the opportunity to do something for God, why would you pass it up? Does God have to force you do show your love for Him? Or do you only show your love for God in ways that are convenient for you?

Not condemning. Just questioning. This is all about getting us to think about our relationship with God and test ourselves to see whether we are really in the faith - and that's totally biblical (2 Corinthians 13:5).

And, the point that you made about walking over a cliff is not even accurate because I already (Know Better) than that. God does not have to tell me not to walk over a cliff because I already have the knowledge to know what would happen if I did.

Which makes me think it was a perfectly accurate analogy.

The point is that pleasure in and of itself is Never "Wrong".

The point is that pleasure, outside of God's will, is always wrong.

Did you know that extreme self-denial is a sin?

Absolutely. Denying ourselves with the wrong motivation can just puff us up in pride and arrogance and make us the kind of stuck-up (un)Christians you accused me of being.

However, I'm not talking about that kind of self-denial. I'm talking about love for God and being led by the Holy Spirit.

You can't love your neighbor as you love yourself if you refuse to love yourself. And, if you hate yourself you cannot love your neighbor because if you can't love the person closest to you (Yourself) then you will never be able love others. That is why Paul said that even if he gave his all for the poor, if he did not love them it was a meaningless sacrifice (1st Corinthians 13).

The point of those verses is that our love, in itself, is corrupted by sin and worthless. Essentially, it's just selfishness disguised as love. So what we actually need is to deny ourselves that love so that we can have the love of God, which is pure and holy and selfless. We are supposed to love our neighbor in the same way we love ourselves - which is, by God's pure, selfless love, and not our own sinful, selfish "love."

One way or another, it doesn't mean we can please ourselves and do what we want, and call it "loving" ourself for the sake of others. Sorry, but that's seriously twisted.

--ndp