Stations of the Cross

[donadams]

There is no evidence the 7 other books were ever in the Bible itself to begin with.
Since the Bible has only 66 books, apparently you believe man is more powerful than God?? if they were Biblical, why were THE NON-66 not entering the Bible - and not any of the 66??
Or, WHY ARENT THEY IN ANY CREDIBLE BIBLE TRANSLATION??
You cannot answer - for the simple reason God kept His Word from the Errorpocrypha.
66 Books. Not 65 or 67.

So you believe God's Word is NOT the only authority - MAN can be too.
the REAL CHURCH refers to a BODY OF BELIEVERS. Obviously, it is made up of HUMANS.
Apparently you believe that HUMANS are an authority too.

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 acts 1:8 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
More below

 

[donadams]

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Hear the church Matt 18:17 the only pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Apostolic succession: apostles must remain till Christ returns Matt 28:19-20

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!

They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the apostolic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2

Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3

 

[donadams]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

 

[donadams]

Define "Apostolic church."

The church one true church (Jn 10:16 )founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles (Matt 16:18-19 Matt 81:17-18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20) with the command to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

 

[KV-44-v1]

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

So - what if apostles are teaching an antiBiblical beliefs? Which master will you serve? Apparently you believe you can have the Bible AND man as Supreme Authorities.

That verse is DESCRIPTIVE - not perscriptive.

"Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day. "

And what the Apostles taught was in LOCKSTEP with the Bible.
You have accidentally AFFIRMED Bible-only. The true Apostles found in the Bible do not contradict the Bible - but some Catholic traditions do.

The church one true church (Jn 10:16 )founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles (Matt 16:18-19 Matt 81:17-18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20) with the command to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

So basically the Christian Church.

 

[GodsGrace]

So - what if apostles are teaching an antiBiblical beliefs? Which master will you serve? Apparently you believe you can have the Bible AND man as Supreme Authorities.

That verse is DESCRIPTIVE - not perscriptive.

Jesus commanded that the Apostles teach...so I guess we could agree that it's descriptive.
Although we are told to be ready with a reason for our faith.
1 Peter 3:15

"Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day. "

And what the Apostles taught was in LOCKSTEP with the Bible.

Which bible?

You have accidentally AFFIRMED Bible-only. The true Apostles found in the Bible do not contradict the Bible - but some Catholic traditions do.

Which bible?

 

[KV-44-v1]

Jesus commanded that the Apostles teach...so I guess we could agree that it's descriptive.
Although we are told to be ready with a reason for our faith.
1 Peter 3:15



Which bible?


Which bible?

NASB and other tried and true translations. There's many ways to say 1 thing.

 

[GodsGrace]

NASB and other tried and true translations. There's many ways to say 1 thing.

The NASB was not around in the time period under discussion.

Now what?

 

[KV-44-v1]

The NASB was not around in the time period under discussion.

Now what?

so? the ancient texts we have today that the NASB [and other reliable translations] source from were around.

 

[GodsGrace]

so? the ancient texts we have today that the NASB [and other reliable translations] source from were around.

So you think they made it to when the bible was assembled?

Let me tell you how the history is:

Jesus told the Apostles what they were to teach.
They didn't start writing till about 30 to 40 years after His resurrection.
Paul started to write about 20 years after the resurrection, both what the Apostles taught him and what He gleaned from our Lord.

The Apostles then taught others, and so on and so forth.
There weren't too many written things around when the Apostles had died.

Did you ever hear of the Didache, Teachings of the Apostles?
Did you ever hear of the Early Church Fathers?

Why listen to men you might say.
Maybe because they were taught what Jesus taught?

And then in the 4th century the bible was assembled according to what the teachings were from the Early Fathers.

Then the Reformation happened and it was decided by the powers that be that the bible was NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit and 7 books were removed from the OT.
And the powers that be decided that everything that was taught till then was ALL wrong and reinvented the Christian faith.

This is the history in short form.
One could take it or leave it.
Or one could have an open mind and absorb a really BIG God that does not fit neatly into any box.

 

[GodsGrace]

so? the ancient texts we have today that the NASB [and other reliable translations] source from were around.

This is what you said in post 26:

KV-44-v1 said:
"Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day. "

And what the Apostles taught was in LOCKSTEP with the Bible.

I asked you what bible....
There was no bible around at that time.
The only bible available to anyone was the Old Testament.

So how could we know they're were in lockstep?
Only one of the Apostles wrote something down on paper.
John.

 

[donadams]

Jesus commanded that the Apostles teach...so I guess we could agree that it's descriptive.
Although we are told to be ready with a reason for our faith.
1 Peter 3:15



Which bible?


Which bible?

What traditions?
And what is tradition?

 

[donadams]

so? the ancient texts we have today that the NASB [and other reliable translations] source from were around.

How do we know what is scripture?

 

[GodsGrace]

What traditions?
And what is tradition?

Did I mention traditions??
If so, where?
I can't remember...

 

[donadams]

Did I mention traditions??
If so, where?
I can't remember...

Sorry it was Kv 44 in number 25

 

[KV-44-v1]

So you think they made it to when the bible was assembled?

Let me tell you how the history is:

Jesus told the Apostles what they were to teach.
They didn't start writing till about 30 to 40 years after His resurrection.
Paul started to write about 20 years after the resurrection, both what the Apostles taught him and what He gleaned from our Lord.

The Apostles then taught others, and so on and so forth.
There weren't too many written things around when the Apostles had died.

Did you ever hear of the Didache, Teachings of the Apostles?
Did you ever hear of the Early Church Fathers?

Why listen to men you might say.
Maybe because they were taught what Jesus taught?

And then in the 4th century the bible was assembled according to what the teachings were from the Early Fathers.

Then the Reformation happened and it was decided by the powers that be that the bible was NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit and 7 books were removed from the OT.
And the powers that be decided that everything that was taught till then was ALL wrong and reinvented the Christian faith.

This is the history in short form.
One could take it or leave it.
Or one could have an open mind and absorb a really BIG God that does not fit neatly into any box.

What "power that be"? There's no evidence 7 books were ever added to the Bible.
Again, God would preserve His Word, and the 7 xtra Books would be in Almost Every Bible, instead of not in.

Do you think the unnamed "powers" have more power than God?? If the 7 books were inspired, that would indeed be the case. But since the 7 are not - God lets them fade.

Why do you think the BIBLE (with**out** aporcrypha) manages to survive persecutions - but for some reason, the apocrypha doesn't survive unnamed "powers"?? Hmm....

And what evidence has coroborated the claims of ANY of the 7 books?? Much has coroborated Genesis, the Gospels, Proverbs, and other REAL Biblical Books, but not any of the 7.
Magick is promoted in one of the books (something with fish) - therefore it is uninspired.

 

[KV-44-v1]

How do we know what is scripture?

Two indicators: if it clearly seems to unify with the previous Biblical Books. all the Books seem to be inspired by ONE God.
One indicator: And if it confirms Christianity as gotten from the Bible, and if observed evidence proves it right again and again, nonstop.
Only the 66 Books align with this criteria, any other stuff is from man.
There's no new revelation. God started with Genesis and finished His Word after Revelation.

 

[donadams]

Kv 44

How do you know what is and what is not scripture?

The New Testament quotes extensively from these 7 books I have a list of you are interested.

The canon book f scripture was decided by the apostolic authority Christ gave to his church, with the guarantee of the spirit of truth!

 

[donadams]

Both scripture and the apostles have the same authority!

Both are God breathed!

Both Inspired!

Both come from the same source and are of divine origin & authority!


God is the source of truth and the author of the life of grace. Jn 1:16-17 Jn 14:6

Then why don’t you believe the Apostles; His Apostolic Church?

God is the ultimate authority, Christ is the authority of God, sent By God and therefore the Apostles; His Apostolic Church are the authority of Christ and sent by Christ!

The Apostles; His Apostolic Church is the extension of God & Christ with His authority to every place and time!

Under the explicit authority and command of Jesus Christ to teach & sanctity all men unto eternal salvation, with our obedience to them being implied! Matt 28:19 Lk 10:15 Jn 20:21-23

All under the guarantee & inspiration of the Holy Ghost! Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Where does Christ or scripture ever say: “this applies to what they have written ALONE”?

The apostles taught us in person, preaching teaching as the witnesses of Christ (acts 1:8 & 16:17) and the “Mouthpiece of God”!

Thirty plus years before the first letter of the Gospel or New Testament was written, Christ handed down (tradition) or transmitted the fullness of truth to the Apostles; His Apostolic Church, and they exercised authority, teaching, and sanctifying. (administration of baptism, and the sacraments)

Then decades later some of the Apostles wrote some of these truths under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost!

The fullness of divine revelation was complete with the ascension of Christ, and there is no new public revelation, but the apostolic authority continues in the threefold mission that of His Apostolic Church, teach, govern, and to sanctify!

Sacred Scripture & Tradition are God breathed and inspired!

All Christians are bound (Matt 16:18-19 & 18:17-18) to believe and obey! (Rom 16:26)

If God is the ultimate authority and Christ is sent by God and exercise His authority then Christ is also the ultimate or equal authority!

If the apostles are sent by Christ and exercise His authority, and act in His name then the Apostles or His Apostolic Church are also the ultimate or equal authority!

Sacred Scripture & Tradition have equal authority and are the ultimate authority!

Verified by scripture:

2 thes 2:15
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:17
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:19-20
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 1:1-2
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17


The holy gesture (sign of the cross) in its roots was a prayer in apostolic times.

Fourth-century Father of the Church St. Basil (329–379) said that the Apostles “taught us to mark with the sign of the cross those who put their hope in the Lord”—that is, those who presented themselves for Baptism.

Notice the level of authority He assigned to this statement: “the Apostles taught us”!

He could not say that if He believed that Sacred scripture was the “only authority”!

 

[GodsGrace]

Kv 44

How do you know what is and what is not scripture?

The New Testament quotes extensively from these 7 books I have a list of you are interested.

The canon book f scripture was decided by the apostolic authority Christ gave to his church, with the guarantee of the spirit of truth!

Could you post the list for me?