Stealing/ Stewardship

[PouringRain]

I wasn't sure what part of the forum to put this topic in, so if this is not the right place, then someone can move it.

I was reading something the other day (I forget what it was) but it argued that doing things at work, such as surfing the web, is stealing and therefore a sin. What are your opinions on this?

I was raised that we should be good stewards of our time and also of others time. In a work situation, the way I was raised, is that time paid for should be time spent working. We should not be wasteful of our employers time or money. If a person is getting paid for work, then the individual should be working and not loafing around doing other things.

I was actually surprised when I was on another forum, to find out how many Christians surfed the web and posted on forums while at work. It was amazing to me to see people justify getting paid to surf the web and post on a forum. The argument most often made referred to the amount of down time at work, time that normally would have otherwise been spent reading a book. It was interesting to me, because I have never been at a job with so much free time in all my life. There is always something that can be done, even if it is not among your normal duties. If it is true, then I am also shocked and amazed that so many employers out there have so many employees who have so much free time to surf the web, and that all these employers don't mind wasting money on all these salaries of individuals who do not work. Wouldn't it make more business sense to lay off employees and only pay fewer employees to do the work? If I had an employee who spent several hours a day on-line, I would wonder why I am paying that employee or keeping them on the payroll, because clearly there is not enough work for that person to do. I might even cut the position down to part time during peak hours. But that is a side issue.

What do you all think about surfing the web during paid work hours, and would you call it a sin of stealing? Is anyone here in a job that has that many hours of downtime each day, and would you mind sharing what type of job you are in? What are your thoughts on those who occasionally might go on-line (not daily), as opposed to reading a book? Is there anything you want to share about this topic that I have missed?

 

[Mike]

In a work situation, the way I was raised, is that time paid for should be time spent working. We should not be wasteful of our employers time or money. If a person is getting paid for work, then the individual should be working and not loafing around doing other things.

I've argued this very same point many times. In effect, you're taking money right out of your employer's pocket.

Is anyone here in a job that has that many hours of downtime each day, and would you mind sharing what type of job you are in? What are your thoughts on those who occasionally might go on-line (not daily), as opposed to reading a book? Is there anything you want to share about this topic that I have missed?

I refuse to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me. Actually, I work at home, and while it might be a cop-out, I work no set hours. This allows me flexibility to manage fatherhood (and CFnet) and get my job done, whether morning, noon or night. Actually, I would say not putting in a full days work is also "stealing" from your employer. Besides, it feels good to know I've given it my all, and it gives me a sense of guilt when I don't. I could PM you what I do, but I'm afraid it would bore you to death, and half way through, your head would hit the keyboard. Actually, though, it is a terrific job! I'm blessed. :amen

 

[PouringRain]

Mike, I think it is great when people can work from home in today's society, and have flexible hours to also spend with family. I think more jobs and employers should offer those options. Unfortunately, I think there are too many people these days who would take advantage of that, just as they take advantage when they are right under their employers nose in an office! You would probably agree with me that when you work from home and have flex-time with family, your work day is not a typical "9-5" type of job and you probably end up working plenty of odd hours also.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Pouring Rain,

When I was in college, one of the other adult students was a fireman.

His Job was well defined, yet it afforded him ample time while at work to conduct his personal study and do his homework, socialize with his co-workers, play some cards, read a good book, watch some tv as you might say, "At the taxpayers expense".

But the point I'm trying to make is that my friend, the fireman; when called to do his job, did his job and did it very well.

But my friend is able to do his job very well because he's trained to do his job, when called to do his job.

If you looked at how much time a fireman actually spends putting out fires, or saving lives, or even pulling cats out of trees, you'd soon find that we are paying them good money to sit around and do whatever they want, all on our dime. That being said, I wouldn't even begin to think about cutting our fire department personnel because I know that when there's a fire, we have the right people ready, and waiting to jump into action.

While not all jobs are like this, some others are.

So I think what it may come to is this. If somebody is playing around all day long and not getting their job done, I think it's going to be a matter of time before that person no longer has a job. It just seems to work out that way, especially in today's economy.

 

[PouringRain]

StoveBolts, thanks for this second example of someone who might have time provided for them to browse the internet while at work. You are right about firemen. When they are at work they live in the firehouse, so for them it would be like being at home even though they are getting paid. Their job is also not a typical job.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Pouring Rain,

I agree that a fireman's job isn't typical.

Before I went to college, I used to be a roofer (flat work, not shingles) and I'm telling you, we knew what work was and we all had the mentality that being on time was to be late, and that being early, was to be on time. When we worked, we worked hard not because it was hard work, but because we liked to work hard.

But I admit that there were days that we worked a bit too hard and finished early, and the boss recognized this and paid us our 8 hours anyway, even though we had only worked 6. Or there were times when we would tweak our pace, not because we were being lazy or that we were milking the company, but because the boss said to slow it down a bit.

I've also worked for bosses that wanted you to put in 110% every second you were at work and if you got done early you were sent home early which if you didn't need the money, fine, but if you needed the money, you just worked yourself out of a paycheck. I hope that I never have to be micro-managed like that again where the boss only looks at the bottom line with the perspective that the thing that matters most is his profit margin.

For the most part I've had some pretty good bosses, and I like to think that I treat others just as well. But what I've learned is that for most jobs, they have been quoted with a certain amount of time and labor wrapped into them, so when your boss tells you to go home two hours early and pays you for all 8, he's paying you for what he's already expensed. So I don't see posting from work as all that terrible as long as it's understood that your job comes first, and if kicking around on the internet, or even kicking around the coffee machine consumes so much of your time that you're not getting your work done, or you're not looking for opportunities to take on more work or help somebody else out, then one ought to re-evaluate their time and where it's spent.

 

[Pard]

Some more examples...

Union works. Not all of them of course, but some. The example that comes to mind is a story my dad told me. He worked for Zenith and was at a trade show once. They had the guys who worked at the building the trade show was in do all the setup for all the stands. They could not go any farther in their work because the guy who was supossed to plug in the power was not there. Now, anyone of them could have plugged in the power and gone on with it, however their union contracts forbid them from doing this.

Another example of unions is when we drive down the highway and see the construction workers on the side of the road doing nothing. They are all waiting for one guy to finish his job so they can all go back to doing their own job. The unions prevent them from doing anything but what their contract says they have to do.

How about the military? They have down time, however they are still being paid. If they are in a camp in Afghanistan they may be playing cards, or as my friends do, playing video games, or whatever. But the moment the bad guys start firing they are expected to drop everything, pickup their weapons and get back to work.

In some jobs they are paid to mess around. I was watching a show on TV about the ultimate jobs. At Microsoft they are paid to do w/e on the PC. This one T-shirt company paid employees to skateboard in the indoor skate ramp. At this toy makers place they were paid to play with toys.

My mother works in a hospital. She is currently an action nurse, so she is never not doing something, but when she worked in the OR at night she often read books or email, as suggested by her boss. Her job has lots of down time, highlighted by a few moments of extreme action. In fact her job was so quiet that I would often go to work with her.

At my own job we have downtime and my boss (the owner's daughter) allows us to relax and do not much at all, so long as everything is done. We play basket ball, with paper bags. We have snow ball fights in the winter. There is no internet, but we make do.

 

[PouringRain]

I understand and agree with what you all are saying with regards to jobs that have down time and the bosses are aware of employees doing personal things on the clock, but from my experience the vast number of people who I have encountered doing these things do not fit the bill. Maybe the people I have seen are quite different than those that you all have seen. I just can understand and agree with the article I read that called it stealing. I had never thought of it as stealing before, but rather as not being a good steward of ones time and also getting paid for time working, when one is not working. The article outright called it stealing. Obviously, if an employer sends an employee home and pays that employee for extra hours, or if the employer tells the employee that they are free to check e-mail if they have free time, obviously that would not be stealing.

The majority of those who I have seen, they do not fit that category. Their employer is none the wiser that they are surfing the web. I realize that one could argue that as long as the work gets done, then no harm no foul. So, by that token would you then claim that employee is not stealing? That employee is doing nothing wrong by going behind their employers back and browsing the web, provided their work gets done? I would disagree, and say that it is dishonest and that employer is paying the employee to work, not to surf the web. I have been reading things for years now about work places that have started monitoring e-mails and other things, because of this problem with their employees. We aren't talking about the school teacher who checks her e-mail during her free period.

Apparently I am the only one who has seen this widespread and also seen people openly admit to browsing the internet while at work, unknown to their boss. The point of this thread was not to list as many occupations as we can think of that have downtime, and to justify it in every case. LOL I just can not tell you the number of times i have seen people talk about it openly, or I have walked in places and seen employees sitting on their cell phone or computer, and annoyed that a customer was actually there interrupting their personal time, or the place was filthy (and it was a place where employees are supposed to clean on downtimes), etc. I'm just amazed that I am the only one on here who has observed this seemingly every time I turn around.

 

[Caroline H]

My husband works in the admissions office of a college managing their data and about a million other things. The admissions counselors seem to have so much down time that they are almost always playing poker online or chatting up the work-study girls or wandering around. It irks him so much because they all get paid more than he does and do much less work. There have been times when he needed their help doing something and ended up having to do it himself because no one could be bothered. In this case, yes, I'd say they are being dishonest to their employer because there are things they could be doing other than playing poker so much. But if they have done all they can for that time, and are waiting on other things to come in, then I see nothing wrong with alleviating a little boredom now and then with the Internet or a book or whatever.

 

[jasoncran]

in war, i had plenty ot time to watch seasons of tv shows and movies.

at tax payer expense, but that was when i was off, not out and about making my workers do their job and also the donkeys move supplies to the mountains. my day was from 0400 to about 1700.

sun up in country was 0430 and sundown was in 1945 aprox in the summer.