Okay George,
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I would say yes, and dog gone it...it's just a better way of living...who can argue that Torah law isn't a great set of rules for a nation to govern by? I'm trying to see where this is leading...
I agree it is a good way of living, God came up with it afterall...but I was thinking obedience is used by God so that we can be a light, and to produce good fruit that builds faith, and to keep in unity of mind as a church.
I think you are right in your statement...
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Eze 18 .....I don't see Jesus' name mentioned there.....None of the OT characters knew who Jesus was. Jesus' statement is in the mood of "through me"...follow my example.
George, why do you believe Christ died, or became the Lamb of God? Do you believe He is our Redeemer? Do you agree that Christ is our Sacrifice, Priest, Revelation, and King?
I'm still trying to figure that out...here is an interesting item, according to tradition in Judaism, Messiah is one of the 10 items created before the world. In the tradition, it is said that God asked the messiah if he would suffer for the sins of the world...the messiah replied yes. As a result the Messiah would earn the right to rule the future messianic kingdom. That makes a great deal of sense to me. That would explain how Jesus who was human with the spirit of Messiah could suffer for our sins...it gave him the right to rule the future Messianic Kingdom. As to our sacrifice, Passover maybe, atonement...he was sacrificed in the wrong season for that. The atonement sacrifice comes during the fall festival season. Priest, yes, it is quite clear that Messiah (the Prince) will officate temple worship as seen in Ezekiel (40-46). King, yes under God.
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No...it goes deeper than that....if you like I'll email you what I've worked on in regard to Paul...
Email away, I'll pm you.
I'd appreciate comment...good and bad....as I'm always trying to fine tune my theology. I think I do a pretty good job at presenting a case.
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But, the big lie is that we are expected to 100% 24/7. That is a fallacy that has everyone looking the wrong way. God knows we can't keep his Law completely 100% of the time, and he made provision's for atonement in the Torah. It is the intent to keep God's law that makes one righteous. Abraham was counted on as a friend of God because he was "Constantly" faithful...That mean's Abraham was constantly obeying God's law. That includes pre Mosaic Torah and Noahide Law.
I would have to have atonement in the Torah explained to me, and it would cause me to ask again, why do you believe Christ died?
Atonement would be another thread. I'm still working out the details to why Christ had to die...According to Jewish traditon, Messiah ben Joseph was to die before Messiah ben David would appear. It's been a long 2000 years...But, it is quite clear from the OT that there were several options regarding atonement, and almost all of them were bloodless. 
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In Paul's doctrine towards the Gentiles, yes. In the other Apostles doctrine toward the Gentiles, that would be a big fat no....James in Acts 15 gives the commandment to observe Torah lite and develope into Torah complete. Peter in the Pseudo-Clementines expounds on it...with the principle that obeying by 3 laws, that will lead to 10, then to 30, 60 and eventually 100 as the new Gentile converts grow in thier belief practices.
I think this may be a little extra Biblical George, though I may not be in complete disagreement, but that passage doesn't say this concretely.
The Pseudo-Clementines are extrabiblical in the sense that they aren't in the canon...However they are important documents at that. The reason the PC's aren't generally accepted is because they show the Jewish-Christian perspective on the book of Acts....it is written from Peter's point of view, which was much different that Paul's....but Pauline Christianity won out and revisionist church history begins. What I touch on above, is part of what I will send you....
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only if it were that easy....everyone could join he club...instead few are choosen. What did Christ mean by that?
You would think everyone would join, actually, but I agree that the road is narrow....I also agree that obedience plays a part in that.
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On the contrary....they taught that it is essential....Paul taught that it was negated, the others did not.
I am not sure I agree with this...This could be a whole thread alone if we expounded.
Yep, and if you read my stuff, I will show you how many times Paul negates the Torah...
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Did you know that the Christian Essenes that that they were the ones in the New Covenant? They were not Paul friendly....
I thought that Paul actuall defended them in Acts as the Way? Maybe I should pay better attention to my husband, because he is the one who is doing a "never-ending" study on these people. I just listen a lot while folding laundry, but maybe not too well, huh?
You're husband sounds like one sharp cookie....have him research Eisenman's work....
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mucho...agreeo......
Wow...o
Hey.....get back to your clothes foldin....and get off the computer.... :-D
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If we agreed...I wouldn't be on the forum....it wouldn't be any fun...
It may be, then we could all just worship in one mind, and in one accord...what might that be like?
Guess we'll find out in the Messianic Kingdom....:-D :-D :-D
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If you have a mind to...check out any of Eisenman's books. He has a lot of good research on the Essenes, Dead Sea Scroll business...I've picked up a lot of his material at the half price bookstores. Also, he has material on the internet as well. His book on James the Bro of Jesus is superb...Trouble is it's twice as thick (in pages) as any Steven King book I've ever seen.
I will let my husband know about this, thanks. He may have already searched his material on the net...he is really into this right now.
He might want to check Hyam Maccoby's material as well.
The Lord bless you, George.
See ya....Geo.
