Suffering

[elijah23]

Did the Lord intend that we should suffer?

I would say no. He knew that we would, because suffering is the result of mistakes we make, but it wasn’t his wish that we should make mistakes.

 

[glorydaz]

Did the Lord intend that we should suffer?

I would say no. He knew that we would, because suffering is the result of mistakes we make, but it wasn’t his wish that we should make mistakes.

The Lord knew we would suffer in this life, and it is not always the result of our mistakes.

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Just remember, as we place our trust in him, through any adversity, we partake of the fellowship of His suffering and become more like Him.

 

[WIP]

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen. 3:14-19 KJV)

 

[Jam]

Isaiah 45:7
⁷I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

Ecclesiastes 7:14
¹⁴When times are good, be happy;
but when times are bad, consider;
God has made the one
as well as the other.
[Therefore you cannot discover anything about your future]

Lamentations 3:38
³⁸Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that both calamities and good things come?

God created everything, and therefore anything that happens is necessarily caused by God, whether directly or indirectly (if such terms can be meaningfully applied here).

 

[Gazelle]

No. However, I have in the past considered and actually began a book, "Called to Suffer" because of so much I have had to endure.

But no, God's plan for our lives was wonderful and free... as He walked and talked with man in the garden... a peaceful, gorgeous place.

And we have the verse, "I know the plans I have for you..." which says his plans are not to harm us... :heart

 

[smaller]

God created everything, and therefore anything that happens is necessarily caused by God, whether directly or indirectly (if such terms can be meaningfully applied here).

Excellent observation! Many vainly attempt to isolate/insulate God from His creation in various ways.

There are many reasonings put forth in text for our present situation.

s

 

[Aaron the Tall]

I don't think God enjoys seeing his children suffer - but even more so for the wrong reasons.

The only suffering we are called to as Christians is the type of suffering Christ endured - the persecution and opposition of this dark world.

I Peter 5:15,16 says it's not God's will for us to suffer for sinful behavior - but we are instead called to suffer as Christians - to suffer for righteousness sake, not for our lack of righteousness.

I think this is why James called us to rejoice in suffering - I think he was specifically talking about the tribulation that comes from the world and the devil when we resist darkness and live for righteousness. That's why Jesus suffered, because he opposed darkness. We can rejoice in tribulation because we know it is a sign that we are living like Jesus called us to live.

I can't honestly say that any other type of suffering is God's will - not poverty or sickness or lack - unless some of these are specifically coming because we are standing up for the gospel and others are punishing us for it.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think suffering is a big part of God's plan. We are born wicked and become ever more devious and evil as the years go by until (and unless) God saves us. Then we are to grow not only in faith, but also in character and godliness, and this sort of growth often requires some intense suffering. C.S. Lewis said that pain is God's megaphone. I think most of us can see how pain--whether it resulted from sin or living in a sinful, fallen world--has made us stronger and more fruitful than happiness ever did.

My own theory--which I can't prove, of course--is that God often uses pre-conversion pain to break the elect and bring them to Him. I know if my own case, I suffered more than one would expect for someone who engaged in my sort of sins. I know I didn't "deserve" an easy ride to God, and I'm glad I didn't get one; I'm just saying that in my life, and in the lives of many Christians I know, it seems as if God will do what it takes to break the elect and turn them into godly Christians.

As for those of us who have been brought to God, by God's grace, I don't think we get out of suffering. For me, life is more intense as a Christian. I care more, I think and feel more deeply. I can't run to worldly philosophies or self-serving nonsense anymore, even if/when I'd very much like to. So, I think part of the "problem"--if you can call it that--is that Christians see the world for what it is, which makes our suffering all the more intense. Plus, we live in a Fallen World, so sin is going to affect us a all levels--personal, familial, local, national. Its a part of us and its a part of the world. I will say that I sometimes suspect that Christians suffer a bit more than non-Christians. All I can think of, and this sounds terribly cliche, but I do think its true, is that suffering and discomfort really do build character, as long as you let it (with God's grace and assistance, of course).

Maybe its a difference in perspective among denominations, too. I was raised Presbyterian and our prayers and the sermons I heard always emphasized how wretched mankind is and how mighty God is. Calvinists also emphasize God's ongoing, unfolding plan for us all, the plan to restore His creations to perfection. A transformation such as that is, by its very nature, going to involve a good bit of pain for everybody involved.

 

[Aaron the Tall]

Suffering will happen - but there is suffering for the right reasons and suffering for the wrong reasons.

We are to suffer like Jesus did. He suffered because of his 100% dedication to doing God's will - which cost his life. He suffered opposition.

No doubt that tough times can teach us lessons and mature us - but I wouldn't say that tough times are absolutely necessary for us to grow up. Jesus did not need tough times to break him of bad habits. He simply read the word and obeyed it.

I agree this type of growth might seems far fetched for most of us. Maybe it does take some hard times to help us grow up - but I think this type of training is plan B in God's playbook. He uses what is necessary to teach us because we are often hard hearted - but I wouldn't say that this type of suffering is absolutely necessary - or God's perfect will. It is allowed because we too often rebel against plan A.