Sunday School/Small Group

[dirtfarmer]

there is some contemporary music i like . to many churches turn praise and worship in to a type concert of entertainment. there is nothing wrong with drums or a tambourine in church. we allow the piano and guitar where are they associated with? old west the bar.. my only beef with the independent baptist many tend to be dogmatic and authoritative in doctrine. i only visited his church one time. .my buddy has a son who took call to preach. but will only preached in independent churches only

hello ezra, dirtfarmer here

There are doctrines that fundamentalist are very dogmatic on in which I agree with in principle, but not in their actions. Jesus said those that are whole don't need a doctor, but those that are sick do. I don't ever recall of Paul ever preaching to just one group of people. The gospel is to be preached to all.

 

[dirtfarmer]

What I don't like is when the music itself becomes the focal point.
A good praise and/or worship song is not good just because it sounds like the secular music I like.
It often detracts from worship when it is.

hello Jethro, dirtfarmer here

It seems to me that praise/worship music that is used in contemporary services works on the emotions and not the spirit. Maybe the problem is with me, but music that speaks to my spirit that causes me to worship with truth by my spirit is what should be used in services.

 

[civilwarbuff]

hello Jethro, dirtfarmer here

It seems to me that praise/worship music that is used in contemporary services works on the emotions and not the spirit. Maybe the problem is with me, but music that speaks to my spirit that causes me to worship with truth by my spirit is what should be used in services.

What is emotional for one is spiritual for another, would you not agree? We don't all eat the same kind of food, wear the same kind of clothes, live in the same kind of houses.....why should we expect to get the same thing out of the same kind of music?

 

[ezra]

hello ezra, dirtfarmer here

There are doctrines that fundamentalist are very dogmatic on in which I agree with in principle, but not in their actions. Jesus said those that are whole don't need a doctor, but those that are sick do. I don't ever recall of Paul ever preaching to just one group of people. The gospel is to be preached to all.

i will go to any church that needs me

 

[dirtfarmer]

What is emotional for one is spiritual for another, would you not agree? We don't all eat the same kind of food, wear the same kind of clothes, live in the same kind of houses.....why should we expect to get the same thing out of the same kind of music?

hello civilwarbuff, dirtfarmer here

I would not agree that emotional to one might be spiritual to another. Being spiritual has nothing to do with what food you eat physically, nor what kind of clothes you wear. All that fits into the physical realm, not the realm of the Spirit. We are told in Galatians 5:22-24 what "the fruit" (not plural fruits) of the Spirit is.

In verse 24 it is stated that if we are Christ's we have crucified the flesh which has affections and lust.

 

[Edward]

What is emotional for one is spiritual for another, would you not agree? We don't all eat the same kind of food, wear the same kind of clothes, live in the same kind of houses.....why should we expect to get the same thing out of the same kind of music?

I do not agree that emotional= spiritual. Emotions are soul based and spirituality is spirit based. Nevertheless, your right about there's no reason to expect to get the same thing out of the music. When the Holy Spirit speaks to ones spirit (like through music), it would probably be 1000 different ways for 1000 different people. The Lord has many voices and speaks to everyone a little differently. Many people could get the same thing out of it, but that's up to the Lord in what way He touches people.

 

[OzSpen]

Yea, I know what you mean. I've been there, and I've been the 'enthusiastic' one too.

But, most of the time it was just because I enjoyed the discussion and no one else wanted to talk. I learned to say what I had to say, then let it go for someone else. What always happened was no one else would say anything, and the leader would just continue on with his train of though.

Narhan,

A trained leader knows how to draw people out in discussions and to tone down the person who is verbose.

My experience is that there is not a lot of training in small group leadership in churches.

Oz

 

[WIP]

Narhan,

A trained leader knows how to draw people out in discussions and to tone down the person who is verbose.

My experience is that there is not a lot of training in small group leadership in churches.

Oz

I'm not convinced that this is something that can be taught or trained. I believe it is more likely a gift and some have it while others do not. Training may be instrumental in bringing out the gift that was already present. No pun intended.

 

[OzSpen]

I'm not convinced that this is something that can be taught or trained. I believe it is more likely a gift and some have it while others do not. Training may be instrumental in bringing out the gift that was already present. No pun intended.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...bringing out the gift that was already present. No pun intended.

Love it!
That's my kind of humor.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

hello Jethro, dirtfarmer here

It seems to me that praise/worship music that is used in contemporary services works on the emotions and not the spirit. Maybe the problem is with me, but music that speaks to my spirit that causes me to worship with truth by my spirit is what should be used in services.

Edification in the Spirit will invariably wash out in our emotions (if we let it and don't suppress the Spirit). Joy is an emotional fruit of the Spirit. It's just that the church bypasses the 'Spirit' part and gets right to the emotional part. That's not good because then what really isn't 'Spiritual' gets passed off as Spiritual.

If I want/need an emotional kick, alone, I listen to some of my favorite 70's rock and/or roll music. Which usually means listening to a Tull tune, or two....♫"Well I saw a bird today...♫".

 

[OzSpen]

I'm not convinced that this is something that can be taught or trained. I believe it is more likely a gift and some have it while others do not. Training may be instrumental in bringing out the gift that was already present. No pun intended.

WIP,
For most of my professional life as a counsellor and counselling manager, I have trained group leaders for grief, parenting, counsellig and drug ed groups.

Many of these who became group leaders were novices when they began the programs.of training. There was continuing training for these leaders.

Oz

 

[Jethro Bodine]

WIP,
For most of my professional life as a counsellor and counselling manager, I have trained group leaders for grief, parenting, counsellig and drug ed groups.

Many of these who became group leaders were novices when they began the programs.of training. There was continuing training for these leaders.

Oz

I don't think he's knocking what ur saying. He's just making the valid point that there has to be an underlying gift to do what you're being trained to do when it comes to leading and controlling an open meeting of the saints.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Emotions are soul based and spirituality is spirit based.

Yes, but the goal is to have our soulish faculties controlled and motivated by the Spirit.
When I'm full of joy, or peace, I want it to be motivated by the Spirit, not just by pleasant external circumstances. And I know that's happening when there are no pleasant circumstances to be joyful or peaceful about, but I am anyway.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Yes, but the goal is to have our soulish faculties controlled and motivated by the Spirit.
When I'm full of joy, or peace, I want it to be motivated by the Spirit, not just by pleasant external circumstances. And I know that's happening when there are no pleasant circumstances to be joyful or peaceful about, but I am anyway.

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

It is my belief that "pleasant external circumstances" lead to happiness, not joy. Joy comes from knowing the Lord and regardless of external circumstances, joy doesn't abate. Joy brings about peace in spite of external circumstances. Knowing the Lord that paid our ransom and that in his presence there is no condemnation, is joy. It is my belief that only believers can know and have joy. It is the lost and dying world that has happiness, because it is temporal and must be renewed by other circumstances that happen to the mortal body and last for about 6 months. Joy is a part of the fruit of the Spirit, but happiness is a produce of the flesh..

 

[OzSpen]

I don't think he's knocking what ur saying. He's just making the valid point that there has to be an underlying gift to do what you're being trained to do when it comes to leading and controlling an open meeting of the saints.

I understand that. But the gift takes quite some sharpening at times. I had the gift of teaching, but it took quite a bit of training in a Rostrum -like Toastmasters- Club to sharpen my public speaking and preaching gift. If you heard me preach at 18, it was pathetic.

Oz

 

[ezra]

I'm not convinced that this is something that can be taught or trained. I believe it is more likely a gift and some have it while others do not. Training may be instrumental in bringing out the gift that was already present. No pun intended.

the Holy Spirit can not be trained the spirit trains us .there are leaders who are charismatic in nature and know how to allure a crowd. might i add emotions can be spiritual a good cry when moved by the spirit.or a good hearty shout when you feel the presence of the Lord moving..

 

[Jethro Bodine]

might i add emotions can be spiritual a good cry when moved by the spirit.or a good hearty shout when you feel the presence of the Lord moving..

This be true.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

It is my belief that "pleasant external circumstances" lead to happiness, not joy. Joy comes from knowing the Lord and regardless of external circumstances, joy doesn't abate. Joy brings about peace in spite of external circumstances. Knowing the Lord that paid our ransom and that in his presence there is no condemnation, is joy. It is my belief that only believers can know and have joy. It is the lost and dying world that has happiness, because it is temporal and must be renewed by other circumstances that happen to the mortal body and last for about 6 months. Joy is a part of the fruit of the Spirit, but happiness is a produce of the flesh..

But doesn't 'blessed' mean 'happy'?

 

[dirtfarmer]

But doesn't 'blessed' mean 'happy'?

hello Jethro Bodine, dirtfarmer here

If you look up blessed in the dictionary the meaning is holy, consecrated.