Sunday school teacher dumped for being female

[Lewis]

WATERTOWN, New York (AP) CNN -- The minister of a church that dismissed a female Sunday School teacher after adopting what it called a literal interpretation of the Bible says a woman can perform any job -- outside of the church.

The First Baptist Church dismissed Mary Lambert on August 9 with a letter explaining that the church had adopted an interpretation that prohibits women from teaching men. She had taught there for 54 years.

The letter quoted the first epistle to Timothy: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (Watch Church Lady say her dismissal came without warning -- 1:43)

The Rev. Timothy LaBouf, who also serves on the Watertown City Council, issued a statement saying his stance against women teaching men in Sunday school would not affect his decisions as a city leader in Watertown, where all five members of the council are men but the city manager who runs the city's day-to-day operations is a woman.

"I believe that a woman can perform any job and fulfill any responsibility that she desires to" outside of the church, LaBouf wrote Saturday.

Mayor Jeffrey Graham, however, was bothered by the reasons given Lambert's dismissal.

"If what's said in that letter reflects the councilman's views, those are disturbing remarks in this day and age," Graham said. "Maybe they wouldn't have been disturbing 500 years ago, but they are now."

Lambert has publicly criticized the decision, but the church did not publicly address the matter until Saturday, a day after its board met.

In a statement, the board said other issues were behind Lambert's dismissal, but it did not say what they were.

 

[Lewis]

So what do you all think ?

 

[jgredline]

I read the article in the morning and thought to myself. I wonder what class she was teaching. I agree that women should not teach men and women should not be pastors. I have debated this very thing with a good friend of mine for the past three years. I do believe there could have been a better way to deal with this. Without knowing all the details its hard to say.

 

[Dalen Naskiel]

My old Sunday School was almost all female teachers and great people none-the-less. In my opinion, they shouldn't of kicked her out for a reason such as this... Also, after teaching for 54 years, I think the church should of relized that she wasn't really a problem in the first place.

Now if you'll all excuse me, there's an undead outbreak in a town outside of Waterdeep. While i'm cleansing the streets of the evils' vile presense, I think everyone here should come to a conclusion that gender doesn't matter in certain circumstances of society...

 

[lovely]

Peace also posted about this in current events. You are right javier, just sending her a letter seemed an odd way to handle it. The Lord bless you all.

 

[thessalonian]

I think there is a bit of a problem in their exegesis if they think that a woman can't teach children.

Or are the proverbs obsolete:

Prov.1
[8] Hear, my son, your father's instruction,
and reject not your mother's teaching;

Prov.6
[20] My son, keep your father's commandment,
and forsake not your mother's teaching.

Granted, this was not their mother but the principal is that a woman can't teach.

Blessings

 

[jgredline]

Thess
That is why i was wondering what class she was teaching.

 

[peace4all]

I don't see how a woman, who is probably more qualified to teach christianity, is bad in teh eyes of God. Are nto all supposed to share the wisdom and word of God?

Then think of those liek mother theresa and other famous religous women, who taught others of the bible, and religion, male or female. Missionaries in the west when america was beign settled.

Did they break God's word by spreading Christianity?

 

[Steve]

Must be one of those 'Independent' Baptists who don't answer to anybody. If it had been a normative Baptist Church, they probably never would have gotten away with it.

 

[Solo]

I think there is a bit of a problem in their exegesis if they think that a woman can't teach children.

Or are the proverbs obsolete:

Prov.1
[8] Hear, my son, your father's instruction,
and reject not your mother's teaching;

Prov.6
[20] My son, keep your father's commandment,
and forsake not your mother's teaching.

Granted, this was not their mother but the principal is that a woman can't teach.

Blessings

The article states:

The First Baptist Church dismissed Mary Lambert on August 9 with a letter explaining that the church had adopted an interpretation that prohibits women from teaching men. She had taught there for 54 years.


.

 

[vinc]

I would agree with Dalen and Peace4all.

If i am not wrong, Sunday School is for children and Women are most eligible to conduct them as they have the natural ability of handling kids. They have the Mother in them.

There is no gender discrimination in Christ according to the verse below -

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

We are urged to consider the advice of both our Father and Mother in the verse below -

Proverbs 1:8,9 - My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother: For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

Wisdom and Understanding are considered Feminine in Proverbs as seen in the verse below -

Proverbs 3:13-16 - Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.

We are urged to consider our elder women as Mothers and worthy of honour as mentioned in the verse below -

1 Timothy 5:2 - The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

Literal interpretation of some of the Bible verses can lead a person into some wrong decisions like this.

All men and women are equal in the sight of God. God can use both of them in the way He would want to. God's ways are mysterious sometimes.

 

[thessalonian]

Sunday School is for children and Women are most eligible to conduct them as they have the natural ability of handling kids.

Actually it does appear solo is right and that the context of this dismissal is the teaching of adult education classes with men in them. However the dismissal does seem to exclude her from teaching any Sunday School classes.

 

[destiny]

I would agree with Dalen and Peace4all.

If i am not wrong, Sunday School is for children and Women are most eligible to conduct them as they have the natural ability of handling kids. They have the Mother in them.

There is no gender discrimination in Christ according to the verse below -

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

We are urged to consider the advice of both our Father and Mother in the verse below -

Proverbs 1:8,9 - My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother: For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

Wisdom and Understanding are considered Feminine in Proverbs as seen in the verse below -

Proverbs 3:13-16 - Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.

We are urged to consider our elder women as Mothers and worthy of honour as mentioned in the verse below -

1 Timothy 5:2 - The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

Literal interpretation of some of the Bible verses can lead a person into some wrong decisions like this.

All men and women are equal in the sight of God. God can use both of them in the way He would want to. God's ways are mysterious sometimes.

Thank God for men like you, vince.

 

[ttg]

She taught there for 54 years and they just now opened a bible and decided to interpret it without proper guidance? Now someone has to write 54 years worth of letters to her former students to let them know they have to forget everything she taught them.

I'll bet this city councilman doesn't get the female vote in the next election.

 

[destiny]

I am only trying to get an idea of your thoughts here ....not trying to argue with any of you at all.
How do you reconcile the fact that woman have a certain type of authority over men on this forum, as does Judy who is an admin.
This board consists of real lives and people who indeed (are) the church.
There are woman on this forum who have been given more authority than some of the other christian men here because they moderate and administrate.
How do you ( anybody who cares to answer )see that?

 

[lovely]

Hi Destiny, I think your questions are valid, and I would like to see the responses too. I am going to copy my response to peace in the current events thread here in another post. The Lord bless you.

 

[lovely]

I am interested to see how others answer your question. I am open to learn in this area, and desire to have a full understanding of where this line of authority is drawn exactly for me. I have been struggling with being a mod for this reason, off and on, for some time...but a lot during the past 3-4 months or so. I do have my husband's approval, and he reads my posts here as well, but is that enough? If God says that it is not appropriate, then I should be willing to lay it down if the Spirit leads. I want to remain under His umbrella of protection in my obedience. I am not making any quick decisions, but praying, and have asked others to pray. If I am not in this postion with God's approval, then I do not want it, and do not expect that I, or the site, will be blessed at me staying anyway. The Lord bless you.

lovely wrote:

I do believe that they should not be in authority over men in the church. It is not a "worth" issue at all. I believe God places the same value on a female believer, that He does on a male. I think it is a question of position, and role, and what God's intended purpose is for women in HIS plan, not ours. If I am a vice president, then my authority extends from that position alone, and I am not to try and usurp the president's position...things will not run well if I am constantly trying to do that.

Holding a position over men in the church does not determine my value in the church. I have my own ministry before God, and could not be more blessed in any that I have dictated, or created, myself. Being a believer, a wife, a mother, a daughter, a sister, a neighbor, and a friend keeps me pretty busy, and all these positions are of great value before God. Proverbs tells us that to find such a woman is to find one far above rubies. The design of families, and churches, is for God to decide, and are most effective when that design is respected, and lovingly fulfilled to glorify Him. I am fully content in the position for which He created me. I am to delight in keeping the law of the Lord, not grumble for some other position.

There are instances in the Scripture where women have ministered to share the Gospel, and to expound on Christ...this is not normative, imo, and it is not God's best. Women do not lead the church, nor do they lead the home, and should not teach over men in authority. There are positions that they can hold, that do not offend these three principals, and they should be free to pursue them as the Spirit leads them and qualifies them with gifts.

I do firmly believe that men should be in authority in the church, especially in our feminist climate...we need to let the Spirit lead us in such things, even if that means changing things radically. The church moved towards feminism, and our families have suffered for it, imo. They moved away from a Biblical model, and began pulling women out of their homes, and having them handle the ministry of the church to the point that it was rare to see men leading in many churches at all for many years. In fact, it encouraged women to usurp the authority of men in the home. The men were no longer being taught to lead their homes, and their church, and the women were picking up the slack, and leading instead. Now, churches (some) are beginning to realize their error, which could be why after so many years this church is changing it's stance. I don't know based on this information, though.

I have authority, and blessing, from God in my ministry as a woman. I may share the Gospel with authority. I may defend the Gospel with authority. I may restore another believer. I may manage my home, in the framework of my position, with authority. Certainly I can discuss Scripture with my brothers, and sisters, for the purpose of sharpening...these are not positions of authority over men, though. I imagine the majority of believing women would welcome their husbands leading in the home, and in the church. The church must foster this, though, by obeying the Word.

In a world where rights, of all varieties, are emphasized, I have none except those given me by God. I do not seek after equal rights for women, and I do not seek after equal rights for religion, etc. I do what God expects of me, and if I loose all of my rights doing His will it will not matter, as they were not given by men anyway. God's blessing of Truth is greater than any freedoms, and rights, that I have in this world. I layed down all my rights at Calvary (denied myself), and I picked up my cross, and followed Christ. I am not walking in the flesh, but in the spirit, and such things are for God to handle.

The Lord bless you, peace.

 

[destiny]

I believe it would be a mistake if you left Lovely, all i'm trying to do is see how my questions will be answered; my belief is what vinc posted..
Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Also..
1 Corinthians 12:12-14 describes it like this: "The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many." This means each Christian is an equal part of the body of Christ!

Christ is the head; I personally don't see very much 'servant' headship, I see lordship out there. Which is wrong.

 

[jgredline]

Lovely
I have debated this thing between womens roles in church with a friend of mine for years. I can argue this in both ways. My own personal beliefs are that women should not be pastors / teachers of men as it is written in 1st Tim. As far as your position on this board goes, may I make a suggestion.. A suggestion that I believe will work well as we basically do this in my church and infact most conservative churches do this.
Let the women be mods to the women and let the men be mods to the men.
Its simple and will work and will not violate Gods word. I would also make it part of the TOS to say if your male or female and if people lie, its between them and God. I for one think you do a great Job and it would be a shame if you gave up your position. Even if you take up being a Mod to women only on your own, you will be doing what is right in Gods eyes.
Anyway, your very much appreciated.
Thanks Javier

 

[destiny]

Lovely
I have debated this thing between womens roles in church with a friend of mine for years. I can argue this in both ways. My own personal beliefs are that women should not be pastors / teachers of men as it is written in 1st Tim. As far as your position on this board goes, may I make a suggestion.. A suggestion that I believe will work well as we basically do this in my church and infact most conservative churches do this.
Let the women be mods to the women and let the men be mods to the men.
Its simple and will work and will not violate Gods word. I would also make it part of the TOS to say if your male or female and if people lie, its between them and God. I for one think you do a great Job and it would be a shame if you gave up your position. Even if you take up being a Mod to women only on your own, you will be doing what is right in Gods eyes.
Anyway, your very much appreciated.
Thanks Javier

:o
What do you think that Judy should do jgredline?