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Sura 61:6 of the Quran

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DivineNames

Guest
Karen Armstrong-


"The Quran has a very limited understanding of the Christian faith but was not antagonistic towards the religion of Jesus. It saw the revelation to Muhammad as a continuation and confirmation of the earlier faith. Some Arab Christians in the Syriac Church had translated one passage of the Gospels in such a way as to indicate that they were expecting Muhammad's message. Jesus had said that after his death he would send his disciples a Comforter (the Paraclete), who would remind them of everything he had taught them and help them to understand it. In the Syriac lectionary, 'Paraclete' had been translated by the word munahhema, which, after the event, seemed very close to 'Muhammad'. Other Arab Christians had read periklytos instead of 'Paraclete', which can be translated by the Arabic Ahmad. This was a common name in Arabia and, like 'Muhammad', it means 'the praised one'. Muhammad had obviously been made aware of this translation because the Quran refers to the belief that Jesus had foretold that another prophet, called 'Ahmad', would come after him and confirm his message."


K. Armstrong, Muhammad: A Biography of the Prophet (Phoenix Press, 2001 edition) page 73.



Sura 61:6 of the Quran-


YUSUFALI: And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"

PICKTHAL: And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.

SHAKIR: And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic.

KHALIFA: Recall that Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O Children of Israel, I am GOD's messenger to you, confirming the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be even more praised (Ahmad)." Then, when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, "This is profound magic."


from- http://www.universalunity.net/quran4/061.qmt.html




If what Karen Armstrong says is accurate, then it seems that a Quranic claim that Jesus had foretold a messenger to come, can be traced back to human error.
 
so wheres the error?



Jesus had said that after his death he would send his disciples a Comforter (the Paraclete), who would remind them of everything he had taught them and help them to understand it.

did muhammed not teach and remind? did muhammed not teach the ten commandments? did he not praise jesus and moses and all the other prophets?

what christians dont like to admit is that Muslims FOLLOW Jesus, just like muslims follow Moses.
 
Yes, accept Christians understnad that the paraclete is the holy spirit. Which we seee through out the Bible. That is not a mention of Muhammad according to the biblical interpretations.
 
TheStudent said:
so wheres the error?


"Other Arab Christians had read periklytos instead of 'Paraclete', which can be translated by the Arabic Ahmad."
 
TheStudent said:
what christians dont like to admit is that Muslims FOLLOW Jesus, just like muslims follow Moses.


Not if the Islamic understanding and portrayal of Jesus is false.
 
Prophet Muhammad had many names here Ibn kather interpretations :

The Good News of `Isa about Our Prophet and that His Name is Ahmad


Allah said;


(And when `Isa, son of Maryam, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah unto you, confirming the Tawrah before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.'') `Isa said, "The Tawrah conveyed the glad tidings of my coming, and my coming confirms the truth of the Tawrah. I convey the glad tidings of the Prophet who will come after me. He is the unlettered, Makkan, Arab Prophet and Messenger, Ahmad.'' `Isa, peace be upon him, is the last and final Messenger from among the Children of Israel. He remained among the Children of Israel for a while, conveying the good news of the coming of Muhammad, whose name is also Ahmad, the Last and Final Prophet and Messenger. After Muhammad, there will be no prophethood or Messengers. How admirable the Hadith is that Al-Bukhari collected in his Sahih from Jubayr bin Mut`im, who said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah say,



(I have names. I am Muhammad and Ahmad. I am Al-Mahi through whom Allah will eliminate disbelief. I am Al-Hashir who will be the first to be resurrected, with the people being resurrected Hereafter. I am also Al-`Aqib (i.e., there will be no Prophet after me).'') Also Muslim collected this Hadith from Az-Zuhri from Jubayr. Muhammad bin Ishaq recorded that Khalid bin Ma`dan said that some Companions of Allah's Messenger said, "O Allah's Messenger! Tell us about yourself.'' He said,


(I am the (result of the) invocation made to Allah from my father Ibrahim and the good news `Isa delivered. When my mother was pregnant with me, she had a dream in which she saw a light emanating from her that radiated the palaces of Busra in Ash-Sham.'' This Hadith has a good chain of narration that is supported by other similar narrations. Imam Ahmad recorded that Al-`Irbad bin Sariyah said, "The Messenger of Allah said,


(I was written with Allah as the Last and Final of the Prophet, even when Adam was still clay. I will tell of the first good news announcing my advent, the (result of the) invocation to Allah made from my father Ibrahim, the good news `Isa conveyed, and the dream that my mother saw. The mothers of all Prophets see similar dreams.'') Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Umamah said, "I said, `O Allah's Messenger! What was the first good news of your coming' He said,


(The (result of the) invocation to Allah made from my father Ibrahim and the good news `Isa conveyed. My mother saw a light emanating from her that filled the palaces of Ash- Sham in a dream.)'' Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said that the Messenger of Allah sent eighty men, including `Abdullah bin Mas`ud, Ja`far bin Abi Talib, `Abdullah bin `Urfutah, `Uthman bin Maz`un, Abu Musa, and others, to An-Najashi. The Quraysh sent `Amr bin Al-`As and `Umarah bin Al-Walid with a gift for An-Najashi. When they, `Amr and `Umarah, came to An-Najashi, they prostrated before him and stood to his right and left. `Amr and `Umarah said, "Some of our cousins migrated to your land; they have abandoned us and our religion.'' An-Najashi said, "Where are they'' They said, "They are in your land, so send for them,'' so An-Najashi summoned the Muslims. Ja`far said to the Muslims, "I will be your speaker today.'' So, the Muslims followed Ja`far and when he entered on the king he did not prostrate after greeting him. They said to Ja`far, "Why do you not prostrate before the king'' Ja`far said, "We only prostrate for Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored.'' They said, "Why'' He said, "Allah has sent a Messenger to us from Him, who ordered us not to prostrate to anyone except Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored. He also ordered to perform prayer and give charity.'' `Amr bin Al-`As said, "They contradict your creed about `Isa, son of Maryam.'' The king asked, "What do you say about `Isa and his mother Maryam'' Ja`far said, "We only say what Allah said about him, that he is Allah's Word, a soul created by Allah and sent down to the honorable virgin who was not touched by a man nor bearing children before.'' An-Najashi lifted a straw of wood and said, "O Ethiopians, monks and priests! By Allah, what they say about `Isa is no more than what we say about him, not even a difference that equals this straw. You are welcomed among us, and greetings to him who sent you. I bear witness that he is Allah's Messenger whom we read about in the Injil. He is the Prophet who `Isa, son of Maryam, foretold the good news about his advent. Live wherever you wish. By Allah, had I not been entrusted with the responsibilities of kingship, I would have gone to him, so that I could be honored by carrying his slippers and his water for ablution.'' The king ordered that the gifts of the idolators be returned to them. `Abdullah bin Mas`ud soon returned and later on participated in the battle of Badr. He said that when the Prophet received the news that An-Najashi died, he invoked Allah to forgive him. Allah said,


(But when he came to them with clear proofs, they said: "This is plain magic.'') this refers to Ahmad, who was anticipated, in accordance with the early Scriptures and early generations, according to Ibn Jurayj and Ibn Jarir. When the Prophet appeared bringing clear signs, the disbelievers and rejecters said, (This is plain magic)
 
Muhsen said:
Prophet Muhammad had many names here Ibn kather interpretations :

The Good News of `Isa about Our Prophet and that His Name is Ahmad


Allah said;


(And when `Isa, son of Maryam, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah unto you, confirming the Tawrah before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.'') `Isa said, "The Tawrah conveyed the glad tidings of my coming, and my coming confirms the truth of the Tawrah. I convey the glad tidings of the Prophet who will come after me. He is the unlettered, Makkan, Arab Prophet and Messenger, Ahmad.'' `Isa, peace be upon him, is the last and final Messenger from among the Children of Israel. He remained among the Children of Israel for a while, conveying the good news of the coming of Muhammad, whose name is also Ahmad, the Last and Final Prophet and Messenger. After Muhammad, there will be no prophethood or Messengers. How admirable the Hadith is that Al-Bukhari collected in his Sahih from Jubayr bin Mut`im, who said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah say,



(I have names. I am Muhammad and Ahmad. I am Al-Mahi through whom Allah will eliminate disbelief. I am Al-Hashir who will be the first to be resurrected, with the people being resurrected Hereafter. I am also Al-`Aqib (i.e., there will be no Prophet after me).'') Also Muslim collected this Hadith from Az-Zuhri from Jubayr. Muhammad bin Ishaq recorded that Khalid bin Ma`dan said that some Companions of Allah's Messenger said, "O Allah's Messenger! Tell us about yourself.'' He said,


(I am the (result of the) invocation made to Allah from my father Ibrahim and the good news `Isa delivered. When my mother was pregnant with me, she had a dream in which she saw a light emanating from her that radiated the palaces of Busra in Ash-Sham.'' This Hadith has a good chain of narration that is supported by other similar narrations. Imam Ahmad recorded that Al-`Irbad bin Sariyah said, "The Messenger of Allah said,


(I was written with Allah as the Last and Final of the Prophet, even when Adam was still clay. I will tell of the first good news announcing my advent, the (result of the) invocation to Allah made from my father Ibrahim, the good news `Isa conveyed, and the dream that my mother saw. The mothers of all Prophets see similar dreams.'') Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Umamah said, "I said, `O Allah's Messenger! What was the first good news of your coming' He said,


(The (result of the) invocation to Allah made from my father Ibrahim and the good news `Isa conveyed. My mother saw a light emanating from her that filled the palaces of Ash- Sham in a dream.)'' Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said that the Messenger of Allah sent eighty men, including `Abdullah bin Mas`ud, Ja`far bin Abi Talib, `Abdullah bin `Urfutah, `Uthman bin Maz`un, Abu Musa, and others, to An-Najashi. The Quraysh sent `Amr bin Al-`As and `Umarah bin Al-Walid with a gift for An-Najashi. When they, `Amr and `Umarah, came to An-Najashi, they prostrated before him and stood to his right and left. `Amr and `Umarah said, "Some of our cousins migrated to your land; they have abandoned us and our religion.'' An-Najashi said, "Where are they'' They said, "They are in your land, so send for them,'' so An-Najashi summoned the Muslims. Ja`far said to the Muslims, "I will be your speaker today.'' So, the Muslims followed Ja`far and when he entered on the king he did not prostrate after greeting him. They said to Ja`far, "Why do you not prostrate before the king'' Ja`far said, "We only prostrate for Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored.'' They said, "Why'' He said, "Allah has sent a Messenger to us from Him, who ordered us not to prostrate to anyone except Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored. He also ordered to perform prayer and give charity.'' `Amr bin Al-`As said, "They contradict your creed about `Isa, son of Maryam.'' The king asked, "What do you say about `Isa and his mother Maryam'' Ja`far said, "We only say what Allah said about him, that he is Allah's Word, a soul created by Allah and sent down to the honorable virgin who was not touched by a man nor bearing children before.'' An-Najashi lifted a straw of wood and said, "O Ethiopians, monks and priests! By Allah, what they say about `Isa is no more than what we say about him, not even a difference that equals this straw. You are welcomed among us, and greetings to him who sent you. I bear witness that he is Allah's Messenger whom we read about in the Injil. He is the Prophet who `Isa, son of Maryam, foretold the good news about his advent. Live wherever you wish. By Allah, had I not been entrusted with the responsibilities of kingship, I would have gone to him, so that I could be honored by carrying his slippers and his water for ablution.'' The king ordered that the gifts of the idolators be returned to them. `Abdullah bin Mas`ud soon returned and later on participated in the battle of Badr. He said that when the Prophet received the news that An-Najashi died, he invoked Allah to forgive him. Allah said,


(But when he came to them with clear proofs, they said: "This is plain magic.'') this refers to Ahmad, who was anticipated, in accordance with the early Scriptures and early generations, according to Ibn Jurayj and Ibn Jarir. When the Prophet appeared bringing clear signs, the disbelievers and rejecters said, (This is plain magic)
And the Qu'ran is still plain magic or should I say plain rubbish.
You muslims don't understand is this a genetic fault?

John 16

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; AND DID MUHAMMAD DO THIS?
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. YEAH AND THATS WHY JESUS SEND MUHAMMAD TO KILL THE JEWS AND ALSO THE CHRISTIANS NO WONDER THAT THEY COULDN'T BEAR THEM 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. DID MUHAMMAD DO THIS?
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. DID MUHAMMAD DO THIS?
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. DID MUHAMMAD DO THIS?
16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. DO YOU BELIEVE THIS? AND DID MUHAMMAD BELIEVE THIS
 
YESHUA said:
And the Qu'ran is still plain magic or should I say plain rubbish.
You muslims don't understand is this a genetic fault?

And you still in the darkness, you are like them YESHUA you see the clear signs and you say plain magic!!1
 
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Ok, Jesus said the paraclete will guide you into all truth. What news "truths" has the holy spirit brought down that Jesus himself hadnt brought down already. And did he reprove the world of sin, righteousness and Judgement, this holy spirit of yours. Jesus said he has many things to say that you cannot bear, means they didnt have the capacity to take in what he wanted to tell them. What things is Jesus talking about. What things did the holy spirit bring to you, if at all.

Jesus says the paraclete shall not speak of himself, but what things he hears that shall he speak and he will show us the things to come. Muhammed (saw) did indeed tell us what was to come, does the holy spirit fullfill this?
 
2) Does the Holy Spirit "speak" or "inspire":

The Greek word translated as "hear" in the Biblical verses ("whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak") is the Greek word "akouo" {ak-oo'-o} meaning to perceive sounds. It has, for instance, given us the word "acoustics," the science of sounds. Similarly the verb "to speak" is the Greek verb "laleo" {lal-eh'-o} which has the general meaning "to emit sounds" and the specific meaning "to speak." This verb occurs very frequently in the Greek text of the Gospels. It designates a solemn declaration by Jesus (pbuh) during his preachings (For example Matthew 9:18). Obviously these verbs require hearing and speech organs in order to facilitate them. There is a distinct difference between someone "inspiring" something and him "speaking" something. So the Paraclete will "hear" and "speak," not "inspire."


Muhammad (pbuh), as seen above, did indeed fulfill this prophesy. Whatsoever he "HEARD" from Gabriel (The Qur'an), the same did he physically "SPEAK" to his followers. In the Qur'an we read:


"(God swears) By the star when it falls!: Your comrade (Muhammad) errs not, nor is he deceived; Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. It is naught save a revelation that is revealed (unto him)."

The noble Qur'an, Al-Najm(53):1-4



3) The Holy Ghost was already with them:

In the above verses we read "if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." The comforter can not be the Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost (according to the Bible) was "with" them already (and even quite active) long before the coming of Jesus (pbuh) himself and then throughout his ministry. Read for example.


Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


1 Samuel 10:10 "And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them."


"And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly."

1 Samuel 11:6


"Then he remembered the days of old, moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?"

Isaiah 63:11


"For he (John the Baptist) shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."

Luke 1:15


"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee."

Luke 1:35


"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost"

Luke 1:41


"And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,"

Luke 1:67


"And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him."

Luke 2:25


"And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost (Simeon), that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ."

Luke 2:26


"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him (Jesus), and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

Luke 3:22


"Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost."

John 20:21-22


Did they or did they not already receive the Holy Ghost? Was Jesus (pbuh) not still with them when they received the Holy Ghost? Was the Holy Ghost not with Simeon, Mary, Elisabeth and Zacharias before the birth of Jesus (pbuh)? Was the Holy Ghost not with Moses (pbuh) when he parted the seas? There are many more similar verses to be found in the Bible. In the above verses, we are told that if Jesus (pbuh) does not depart then the "parakletos" will not come. Thus, the "Holy Ghost" cannot be the one originally intended since it was already with them. The contradiction is quite obvious.

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/libr ... ch6.3.html
 
Jesus said the paraclete will guide you into all truth. What new "truths" has the holy spirit brought down that Jesus himself hadnt brought down already. And did he reprove the world of sin, righteousness and Judgement, this holy spirit of yours. Jesus said he has many things to say that you cannot bear, means they didnt have the capacity to take in what he wanted to tell them. What things is Jesus talking about. What things did the holy spirit bring to you, if at all.

Jesus says the paraclete shall not speak of himself, but what things he hears that shall he speak and he will show us the things to come. Muhammed (saw) did indeed tell us what was to come, does the holy spirit fullfill this?

Could you answer these please
 
Qasim786 said:
Jesus says the paraclete shall not speak of himself, but what things he hears that shall he speak and he will show us the things to come. Muhammed (saw) did indeed tell us what was to come, does the holy spirit fullfill this?

Could you answer these please


"If what Karen Armstrong says is accurate, then it seems that a Quranic claim that Jesus had foretold a messenger to come, can be traced back to human error."


Could you answer this please?
 
Qasim786 said:
Jesus said he has many things to say that you cannot bear, means they didnt have the capacity to take in what he wanted to tell them. What things is Jesus talking about.


Do you really think it would be holy war against Jews and Christians?
 
No, more like things to come in the future, for example, the end of times, major and minor signs of the day of Judgement. Things to come. What things did the "holy Ghost" show you that will come about, things that Jesus had not already spoken.

Anyway dont give me that rubbish about Holy war on Jews on christians,
read this:

http://www.al-islam.org/short/jihad/
 
Qasim786 said:
Anyway dont give me that rubbish about Holy war on Jews on christians,
read this:

http://www.al-islam.org/short/jihad/


If you have a point to make then please paste it.


Rubbish?

You can find Muslims that acknowledge this is true. I do believe that this is the major historical interpretation of Islam. If you want to say this is wrong, bring the evidence. I have given you the opportunity to respond to this before. This is so well known that you can look this up in a book on world religion, or in the Encyclopedia Britannica or whatever...
 
DivineNames said:
Qasim786 said:
Jesus says the paraclete shall not speak of himself, but what things he hears that shall he speak and he will show us the things to come. Muhammed (saw) did indeed tell us what was to come, does the holy spirit fullfill this?

Could you answer these please


"If what Karen Armstrong says is accurate, then it seems that a Quranic claim that Jesus had foretold a messenger to come, can be traced back to human error."


Could you answer this please?



I would really like to see an answer to this from a Muslim. This is what the thread was about in the first place.
 
If you have a point to make then please paste it.

Sure thing: Here you go

«And Fight those who have not faith in God, nor in the Hereafter, and (who) forbid not what God and His Prophet have forbidden and (who ) are not committed to the religion of truth, of those who have been brought the Book, until they pay tribute by hand, and they are the low.» (9:29)

This Quranic verse concerns the People of the Book, meaning those non-Muslims followers of one of the holy books, namely the Jews, Christians and perhaps the Zoroastrians.

The verse is one of war with the People of the Book, but at the same time, it does not tell us to fight them; it tells us to fight only those of them who have no faith in God, in the Hereafter, and who do not abide by the rule of God, allowing what He has forbidden - and who are not religious according to the religion of truth. It is these People of the Book whom we are to fight until they pay the Jezyah (tribute). That is, when they are ready to pay the Jezyah and are humble before us, we are to fight them no more.

This verse gives rise to many questions which remain to be answered through a study of those Quranic verses pertaining to
jihad, which we will set apart and review.

The first question that arises is what exactly is meant by the words,

«Fight those who have not faith in God»

Do they mean that we are to drop everything and start fighting or is it meant that we must fight them the moment they go beyond their territory and violate ours? In the terms of the learned of Islam, the ulema, this is an unconditional verse which, if there are similar verses that are conditional, must be interpreted as being onditional.

A- Conditional Verses and Unconditional Verses

This term is a very important one, and I wish to explain it to you, for otherwise it will be difficult for you to grasp the full meaning of the verse under discussion. Any command (even a human command) can be given in one place with no conditions, and then again in another situation with a condition attached. In such a case, we immediately realize that whoever issued that command, introduced that law, meant the same thing in both instances. Now, having realized this, what are we to do? Are we to adhere to the unconditional command and assume that the conditional was given for that special instance? Or should we interpret the unconditional as the conditional which means adhering to the conditional?

Let me cite a simple example. On two separate occasions, for instance, we are given a command by someone having the authority to do so and whose commands we respect. On one occasion, we are told that we must respect such and such person, which is an unconditional command. In another he commands us to do the same thing, saying that we must respect that person if he does such and such a thing, like taking part in our meeting. The second time the command contains an "if." The command is now conditional. The person giving the command did not simply state that such and such a person is to be respected. The first command had no condition; we were simply told to respect him, and assuming we had ears and heard this command. it would have meant to us that we were to respect that person whether he came to the meeting or whether he was too lazy to bother. But when we hear the other command, we understand that we are to respect the person provided he comes to the meeting, and, if he refrains from doing so, we are not to respect him.

The ulema say that the rule requires us to interpret the unconditional as the conditional, meaning that we must assume the aim of the unconditional to be exactly that of the conditional.

Now, among the unconditional and conditional verses of the Quran pertaining to jihad, is one which we have seen:

«Fight ye those who have not faith in God, nor in the hereafter and (who) forbid not what God and His Prophet have forbidden»

In another verse, we are told:

«Fight in the way of God those who fight you» (2:190).

What are the meanings of these verses? Do they mean that we must fight these people regardless of whether they are about to attack us? Is the command unconditional so that we must fight them whether they intend or not to attack us, whether they are guilty of aggression or not?

There are two possible views. One is that the command remains unconditional. "The People of the Book are not Muslims, so we are allowed to fight them. We are allowed to fight the non-Muslims until we subdue them. If they are not Muslims and not People of the Book, we should fight them until either they become Muslims or we kill them. If they are People of the Book, we should fight them until they become Muslims or, if they do not become Muslims, until they pay us tribute - such is the opinion of those who say that the verse remains unconditional.

The other view, however; holds that the unconditional must be interpreted as the conditional. Someone with this view would say that the other Quranic verses bring us the conditions for the legitimacy of jihad, we realize that the true meaning of the verses is not unconditional at all. What, then, are the conditions for the legality of jihad? Amongst them, for example, are the following:
that the other side intends to attack us; or that it creates a barrier against the call of Islam, meaning that it negates the freedom of that call and becomes an obstacle to its diffusion, while Islam says that those barriers are to be removed. Or, likewise, in the
case of a people subject to the oppression and tyranny of a group from amongst themselves, Islam says that we must fight those tyrants so as to deliver the oppressed from the claws of tyranny. This has been expressed in the Quran thus:

«Why is it that you do not fight in the way of God and the way of the deprived (mustazafin)?» (4:75)

Why is it that we do not fight for God and for the men, women and children who are subject to torture and tyranny?

B- Can We Fight All the People of the Book?

The second question is related to the fact that the verse does not explicitly state that we are to fight all the People of the Book, but tells us that we are to fight against those of them who believe neither in God nor in the Hereafter,... who count as permitted that which God has forbidden, and who are not at all religious in line with any religion of truth. Now what does this mean? Does it mean that the People of the Book en masse - i.e. all the Jews, the Christians and the followers of the different sects - have no faith in God, no faith in the Hereafter, no faith in God's ordinances and no faith in any religion based on truth, so that if one of them claims that he believes in God, he is a liar and does not actually believe in God? Is the Quran actually saying that all the People of the Book, however much they claim to believe in God, in reality have no such belief? Is it possible for us to argue that because the Christians claim Jesus is God or the 'son of God," they really have no belief in God? Or that, because the Jews say things about Jacob, the Jews have no more faith than the Christians? Or that those who say: «The hand of God is tied» (5:64)
cannot be believers in the true God and the same applies to the rest of the People of the Book?

Thinking in these terms will mean that we believe that the Quran does not recognize any faith in God or in the resurrection other than the faith of the Muslims. If we are asked why, we will say that the Quran states the beliefs of the People of the Book to be confused and misconceived. A Christian, even if he is a learned Christian scholar, recognizes God and even recognizes the Oneness of God, but at the same time, he may have some idea about Jesus or the angel Gabriel that pollutes his belief in the Oneness of God (Tawhid.) This is the view of some of the Quranic commentators. To them, when the Quran tells us we are to fight against the People of the Book, it means that we are to fight against all the People of the Book, that the faith in God of not one of them is a valid faith; that the faith in the resurrection and in what God has forbidden and permitted of not one of them is valid. What these commentators believe is that the word " Prophet" in this verse means the last of the prophets, Muhammad, peace and blessing be upon him and his household, and that "religion of truth" means the religion which mankind of today has the duty to accept, rather than a religion which was the duty of people to accept during some particular period in the past.

A different group of commentators, however, consider that with this statement, the Quran intended to show us that the People of the Book form two categories; that not all the People of the Book are the same; that some of them really do believe in God, and resurrection, really do believe in the laws of God, and these we are to leave alone. Those of them whom we are to fight are those who are People of the Book in name only, but who in reality, have no valid belief at all, and who do not consider forbidden that which God has forbidden, even what He has forbidden in their own religion. So it is not with all the People of the Book that we are to fight, but a group from amongst them. This is another issue in itself.(1)

C- Jezyah?

The third question relates to the word jezyah or tribute. We are told to fight them until they pay the jezyah, which means until they either accept Islam or pay the jezyah. In the Quran there is no doubt that a difference has been maintained between the People of the Book and the polytheists, or mushrikin, those who formally worship idols and do not follow any holy book.
Nowhere in the Quran are we told to fight the mushrikin until they pay the jezyah, and to fight them no more once they have paid it. Concerning the People of the Book, however, we are told that once they are willing to pay the jezyah, we are to fight them no longer. This is a difference that clearly exists.

This brings us to this question, namely, what is jezyah? There is debate about the word itself. Some say it is not an Arabic word by origin; that it has no Arabic root, but is a derivative of the Persian word gaziyet, the name of a tax introduced by Anoushiravan, the Sassanian King of Persia. This tax, however, was a poll tax on the people of Persia themselves and not on anyone else and it was collected for war. They say that the use of the word then spread from Iran to Hira, a town situated roughly on the site of present-day Najaf (in Iraq) and from there it was adopted by the rest of the Arabian peninsula where it became widely used.

Others reject this. Though it is true that jezyah and gaziyeh are very close, jezyah is an Arabic word from the root "jaza" - and this is the view of most etymologists. The real interest is not in the nature of the word, however, for what we are looking for is the nature of the essence which the word denotes. Is jezyah the extortion of "protection money" or "danegeld," a kind of blackmail? Does Islam tell us to fight so as to obtain blackmail and, when it has been paid, to fight no longer? A poet has even said: "We are such that from emperors we have taken taxes, then we even took their crowns and maces."

If the meaning of jezyah implies a kind of blackmail, the question arises as to what is the meaning of it all. What kind of instruction is it? Is it not a law of violence and brute force? What kind of basis in human rights and justice can it have, for Islam to give Muslims permission, even make it obligatory for them, to fight the people of other religions until they either accept Islam or buy the Muslims off? Both these alternatives present a problem, for fighting them until they become Muslims will mean imposing Islam on them, and fighting them until they buy the Muslims off will mean exacting wealth from them. Both alternatives are the use of violence and force, for either it means imposing beliefs upon them or forcefully extracting money from them. So here too we must enter into details to find out just what jezyah is. Is it really "blackmail," "protection money," "danegeld?" Or is it something else?

Here, the Quran says "vahom sagheroon" meaning, "and they are the low," "while they are the low." Sagheroon comes from the word 'seghar" and 'seghar" means "low (small)." While they are the low. What is the meaning of "they are the low?" This is also the fourth question namely what is the meaning of they are the low? Does it mean that they must only humble themselves before your power or does Islam mean other matters besides humility (being humble)?

Here we must set aside the meaning of this verse and the questions that arise from it, and look at other issues that must be separately analyzed and discussed in preparation.

http://www.al-islam.org/short/jihad/
 
DivineNames wrote:
Qasim786 wrote:


Jesus says the paraclete shall not speak of himself, but what things he hears that shall he speak and he will show us the things to come. Muhammed (saw) did indeed tell us what was to come, does the holy spirit fullfill this?

Could you answer these please



"If what Karen Armstrong says is accurate, then it seems that a Quranic claim that Jesus had foretold a messenger to come, can be traced back to human error."


Could you answer this please?




I would really like to see an answer to this from a Muslim. This is what the thread was about in the first place.

Are we talking about a supposed Quranic error, or an error made by Arabs about the Bible's use of the word Paracletos? I dont quite follow your point.

Jesus said the paraclete will guide you into all truth. What new "truths" has the holy spirit brought down that Jesus himself hadnt brought down already. And did he reprove the world of sin, righteousness and Judgement, this holy spirit of yours. Jesus said he has many things to say that you cannot bear, means they didnt have the capacity to take in what he wanted to tell them. What things is Jesus talking about. What things did the holy spirit bring to you, if at all.

Jesus says the paraclete shall not speak of himself, but what things he hears that shall he speak and he will show us the things to come. Muhammed (saw) did indeed tell us what was to come, does the holy spirit fullfill this?

For the final time, could you answer this please
 
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