Sympathy for the Lost

[bleitzel]

. . . Even people who never hear of Yahweh or Jesus can look at all of creation and as the text declares, believe in their heart and confess with their mouth.

Whoa there! Confess with their mouth . . . what?

Jesus said that man (or woman) cannot see or enter the kingdom of heaven UNLESS he (or she) is born again.

And how are you born again? By repenting and being baptized. By confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart, etc.

 

[bleitzel]

That was the point I was trying to make, God died for all our sins but we need to proclaim the gospel to all people. We cannot think that Jesus died for all our sins so now everyone is saved and we can carry on sinning. There were conditions to everlasting life. And that was we must repent of our sins and proclaim the gospel. Gods love is not conditional but our salvation is!THE ROAD IS NARROW

I agree wholeheartedly with you on this, Ed. God died for our sins, we need to repent and have faith. There are conditions to everlasting life, we must huimble ourselves and obey Him. The road is indeed narrow.

 

[bleitzel]

Our salvation is NOT conditional. When God sent Jesus to save the world, he knew exactly how each and every one of us would respond to it.

Not necessarily.

There is a reason it is called the GIFT of salvation, not the Trade off of salvation. When you give someone a gift, you don't ask for them to give you something before you give them the gift. You just give it to them.

But a gift can be rejected. God's salvation, His offer of eternal life, is aptly termed a gift because He has concevied of it and offered it to us without our meriting it at all. All He asks of us is to recognize that we do indeed need His gift, His help, humble ourselves, take His charity, and repent of our sinful ways. If we reject His gift, then we reject eternal life.

Joe, do you believe then in Universal Salvation?

 

[joechrist]

Our salvation is NOT conditional. When God sent Jesus to save the world, he knew exactly how each and every one of us would respond to it.

Not necessarily.

There is a reason it is called the GIFT of salvation, not the Trade off of salvation. When you give someone a gift, you don't ask for them to give you something before you give them the gift. You just give it to them.

But a gift can be rejected. God's salvation, His offer of eternal life, is aptly termed a gift because He has concevied of it and offered it to us without our meriting it at all. All He asks of us is to recognize that we do indeed need His gift, His help, humble ourselves, take His charity, and repent of our sinful ways. If we reject His gift, then we reject eternal life.

Joe, do you believe then in Universal Salvation?

I find it troubling that you believe that God would offer a gift that if you don't accept, he punishes you for eternity. Once again, God sent Jesus to save the world, not to save only the people who understand his gift. If the gift of salvation is exclusive, the whole thing is pointless because God knows exactly how people will interpret the message. He knows if they will understand it or not. If he knows exactly which people will see the message the way YOU see it, and plans to punish the rest, why bother with the sacrifice. Why not just select those certain people and give them eternal life?

 

[bleitzel]

I find it troubling that you believe that God would offer a gift that if you don't accept, he punishes you for eternity.

There are certainly lots of scriptures that talk about this though. Why would you find it troubling? Do you not think that there should be responsibility for ones actions?

If the gift of salvation is exclusive, the whole thing is pointless because God knows exactly how people will interpret the message. He knows if they will understand it or not. If he knows exactly which people will see the message the way YOU see it, and plans to punish the rest, why bother with the sacrifice. Why not just select those certain people and give them eternal life?

I don't think scripture teaches that God knows if they will understand it or not, and has determined to send the others to eternal damnation anyways. The Bible just doesn't talk like that. I think it is much more in line with scripture to say that God created us and looks to our response to His commands to see how to reward/punish us. That it is not some predetermined game with pre-set outcomes.