Tell Me Something Quath

[Lewis]

Quath' tell me why you don't think that their is a God. Even with all the evidence in the Bible' and all arond you ? I have never asked you this question before' in the almost 2 years that I have known you. I just want to hear your particulars. I don't want a debate' I just want you to tell us' in detail.

 

[Quath]

I guess I don't see the Bible as evidence that God is real anymore than I see the Illiad as evidence that Zeus is real. The stories sound to me like a tribal god helping his people out, but he doesn't really act on a bigger scale. I know to you he does, but no other culture around the world ever heard of Yahweh or any of the Genesis stories (except cultures that came into contact with the Hebrews).

When I look around me, I do see some mysteries. But my first reaction is not to say that these mysteries must be a sign of God. Over timne, science sheds light into these mysteries and they have natural answers.

Also, the Old Testament is full of miracles that could be seen and not ignored. Yet today there doesn't seem to be anything that really sticks out as a "miracle." That just leads me to believe that people didn't understand stuff and just wrote down in a book that a god did it.

Lastly, the Christian God doesn't make very much sense to me. Killing his son, who is him, and then reincarnating him is suppose to let him forgive the creations he made. Also, God is suppose to love people, yet he also ok with them being tortured in hell for all of eternity (as opposed to removing them from existance). He also does very questionable things like kill a child because his father committed adultery and tells people to specifically target the children of his enemy. I just feel those things are wrong and it would be very hard for me to ever think that a good and decent deity would ever do those things.

I guess in a nutshell, I just don't see any evidence that God exists. If God really did exist, I would want to know. But I would have to be shown real evidence as opposed to "faith" (i.e. belief without proof).

 

[Lewis]

Thank you very much Quath.

 

[Solo]

Thank you very much Quath.

Lewis,
Do you know of anywhere in the Scriptures where miracles occured to those who did not believe?

I can think of the alternative where miracles were not done because of unbelief:

• 54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? 57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Matthew 13:54-58

 

[Quath]

Do you know of anywhere in the Scriptures where miracles occured to those who did not believe?

The flood, Doubting Thomas, 10 plagues, God lighting fire for priests of Ba'al, Jesus performed many miracles (which won him many converts thus they were not believers), talking in tongues, and there are probably more I missed.

 

[Solo]

The flood, Doubting Thomas, 10 plagues, God lighting fire for priests of Ba'al, Jesus performed many miracles (which won him many converts thus they were not believers), talking in tongues, and there are probably more I missed.

Wrong again dear unbeliever. The flood saved the believer Noah and his family, The Apostle Thomas was a believer, the 10 plagues come down on Pharoah from Moses' belief, God lit the fire for Elijah a prophet of God not for the priests of Baal, Jesus performed Miracles in the midst of believers (reread my previous post where Jesus did no wonders where there was unbelief), those whom Jesus did miracles for were believers that he could do such because of who he was, talking in tongues comes only to those who believe, and you missed the truth of all of these.

 

[Veritas]

occured to them? yes,

occured to them....
....that it was God?

no.

God is already working in a believer...

...miracles go right over the head of an unbeliever.

 

[jgredline]

Quath
I will comment only on the things you said that stood out to me...I do not wish to debate these, although I would be will to debate the resurrection with you...if you like...

I guess I don't see the Bible as evidence that God is real anymore than I see the Illiad as evidence that Zeus is real. The stories sound to me like a tribal god helping his people out, but he doesn't really act on a bigger scale. I know to you he does, but no other culture around the world ever heard of Yahweh or any of the Genesis stories (except cultures that came into contact with the Hebrews).

When I look around me, I do see some mysteries. But my first reaction is not to say that these mysteries must be a sign of God. Over timne, science sheds light into these mysteries and they have natural answers.

Romans 2 in effect......None will be with out excuse..

Also, the Old Testament is full of miracles that could be seen and not ignored. Yet today there doesn't seem to be anything that really sticks out as a "miracle." That just leads me to believe that people didn't understand stuff and just wrote down in a book that a god did it.

God still does do miracles today because of His grace and only for the believer, those who are his....The Last miracle he gave the unbelieving world was the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the events that followed before his ascension to heaven...

Lastly, the Christian God doesn't make very much sense to me. Killing his son, who is him, and then reincarnating him is suppose to let him forgive the creations he made. Also, God is suppose to love people, yet he also ok with them being tortured in hell for all of eternity (as opposed to removing them from existance).

Quath, to your credit, at least this shows you have some understanding of the trinity and Hell, which is allot more than some so called believers...

 

[Quath]

Wrong again dear unbeliever. The flood saved the believer Noah and his family,

Nonbelievers saw the flood (for a limited time[/quote]

The Apostle Thomas was a believer,

He didn't believe Jesus was resurrected until he had physical proof, so he was not a believer until after that.

the 10 plagues come down on Pharoah from Moses' belief,

The nonbelievers (Pharoah & Egyptian citizens saw the plagues)

God lit the fire for Elijah a prophet of God not for the priests of Baal,

It was a competition of one god versus another. So God lit a fire in front of nonbelievers to prove he was the real god.

Jesus performed Miracles in the midst of believers (reread my previous post where Jesus did no wonders where there was unbelief), those whom Jesus did miracles for were believers that he could do such because of who he was, talking in tongues comes only to those who believe, and you missed the truth of all of these.

If this is correct and there are believers around me, then I should be seeing miracles.

God is already working in a believer...

...miracles go right over the head of an unbeliever.

Yeah, I guess I can't see that. To me, it just looks like they focused themself to a goal.

The Last miracle he gave the unbelieving world was the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the events that followed before his ascension to heaven...

I am like Doubting Thomas here.

Quath, to your credit, at least this shows you have some understanding of the trinity and Hell, which is allot more than some so called believers...

Heh. I am surprised when I find people who don't know this basic tenent of the Christian faith.

 

[Solo]

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

 

[Lewis]

I think Quath is pulling our leg. Quath loves Jesus.

 

[Quath]

:D

 

[Veritas]

Well, I know that Jesus loves Quath.

Anyways, ...I think it's good you're here Quath. I think God's working on your heart...

 

[Lewis]

Well, I know that Jesus loves Quath.

Anyways, ...I think it's good you're here Quath. I think God's working on your heart...

And I believe' all of that.

[/URL]

 

[Solo]

Well, I know that Jesus loves Quath.

Even though Quath does not love Jesus? 8-)

 

[jgredline]

Amazing is it not....God loves Quath no less than he loves me even though I belong to Jesus and quath does not....

God loves quath so much that he provided a way to receive eternal life, all quath has to do is repent and believe in The Lord Jesus Christ....

How is this possible, that God can love someone who hates him????
Because God is perfect Love (agape love)...Man with out the Spirit, can only offer Phileo love....A man who is born again can Agape Love as well....

 

[Solo]

Amazing is it not....God loves Quath no less than he loves me even though I belong to Jesus and quath does not....

God loves quath so much that he provided a way to receive eternal life, all quath has to do is repent and believe in The Lord Jesus Christ....

How is this possible, that God can love someone who hates him????
Because God is perfect Love (agape love)...Man with out the Spirit, can only offer Phileo love....A man who is born again can Agape Love as well....

In a previous post, I gave two Scripture verses that declared, first, that faith comes by hearing the word of God; and second, without faith it is impossible to please God because one must believe in Him to please Him, and that God rewards those who "diligently" seek Him.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

What Scripture states that Jesus loves Quath even though Quath does not love Jesus?

 

[Featherbop]

Guys, I don't think it is fair to shanghai Quath into christianity...

Anyway, curious...why is Quath singeled out for this suggesting that he is saved or going to be saved soon? If I'm not mistaken, this has happened before.

It doesn't happen to me, I just get the typical christian scorn and hatefulness most of the time. Why?

I believe Quath has said before that he is here to understand the beliefs of christians and why they believe, and maybe what they intend. He is calm and rational and I would also say very understanding of others. Very patient. Does that have something to do with trying to convince him that he is a christian or close to it?

Anyway, one more thing:

How is this possible, that God can love someone who hates him????

Just thought I would point out the problem here. You can't hate someone or something that doesn't exist or that you do not believe in.

Saying that atheists hate god is like saying christians hate allah.



Oh, and one last thing...You guys...don't have Quath locked in a closet or anything, right?

Just checking.....

 

[Lewis]

Well Solo' I guess it would be that He sent His Son to die for us. And He tells us to love others. And I don't think that God would tell us to love others' if He did not also. We are to hate their sin but not them. Just giving my view. I have often wondered this same thing about Muslims' I have a hard time loving them. And One of my best friends is one' and a few family members' I love them but I hate their faith. But the ones over there fighting us' I have a real hard time loving them. And because the Quran is against the true God that we Christians are under. I wonder does God love them ? But the one thing I do know' we cannot put God in a box' because His range and concept and power is way above ours. And another thing is He often gives people time to come to Him' because He said' that He is not willing that any should perish. But they have a choice.
I was just reading these articles' on this subject.
http://karenrobbins.blogspot.com/2006/0 ... heist.html

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_t ... rush_.html

 

[WiLdAtHeArT]

A 4 year old asked me once if God loves Satan...
I had to think about that before answering - but my answer is that God does love Satan but he hates evil.