Temporal Salvation?

[Blood Bought 1953]

Which is the opposite of what Jesus taught.

This is against what Christ taught.

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


The very definition of loving God is keeping His commandments.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


Maybe you meant to say something else?

Maybe that’s not what you meant?

I hope so.



JLB

All of this constant chatter devoted to “ Commandment Keeping”......People are putting the Cart before the Horse......One does not concentrate on keeping Rules to “ prove” that they Love God....People see verses like this and think, “ wow.....I’d better start being more “ obedient” to prove I Love Jesus!”
Jesus is not issuing ultimatums.....He is stating fact .If one Loves Him, Obedience Will flow naturally.....the love comes first......one gets that “ love” when they Rest in the Gospel .....The BURDEN of a Performance -Based Salvation , the constant striving to make one’s-self “ Worthy” Of Heaven —- when all of this HogWash is thrown into the garbage where it belongs —- the Joy , Relief and Gratitude when we now know we can never lose our Salvation spurs the Love That is the Engine that drives Obedience and following Commands.....we do them because we “ want” to not because we think we “ have” to...

 

[netchaplain]

Sorry Brother

Jesus was speaking to the twelve disciples which included Judas. Matthias wasn’t in the picture yet.


Matthias was selected by a “coin toss“; casting lots.


JLB

I'm referring to the fact that Judas never was a true apostle, as shown by the Lord's words. He merely held the position of an apostle but never held the truth of Christ in his heart. One cannot do the things of God without Him in you, but only falsely imitate so (imitation, counterfeit, hypocrite). I'm certain we won't see Judas' name in any of the New Jerusalem foundations, because they only include the final 12.

 

[JLB]

One can’t just bandy about words as if they can mean anything you want them to mean....

There are three different words that the Bible Translates as “ Repentance”. The Greek word “ metanoia” simply means “ mind change”....... Anybody who has “ Repented” or undergone a “ change of mind” about Jesus, manifested by Believing His Gospel Given to Paul in 1cor15:1-4 has done all the Repenting he ever needs to do
The word “ repent” is not found in our great Book Of Salvation.....” John”........Doesn’t that seem strange? The Word “ Belief” is found dozens of times! Hmmm.....what’s up with this? John knew that “ repentance” was BUILT IN to Belief. Anybody that has gone from Unbelief in Jesus to a Belief in Jesus has undergone the “change of mind” that “ Repentance” requires...One can Repent Without Believing , But you cant Believe Without Repenting— John knew that .....many others never see it.....

Isn‘t it great we don’t have to wonder what a Greek word means when we have Jesus and Paul explaining what the mean.


“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:19-20

• and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God

JLB

 

[JLB]

All of this constant chatter devoted to “ Commandment Keeping”..

To me, It’s simply a matter of love.

I love my Lord. I know Him. All I want to do is please Him.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


If you had a wife that was sneaking around with other men, then came home to you and said, I love you honey...

Would that please you?




JLB

 

[JLB]

I'm referring to the fact that Judas never was a true apostle, as shown by the Lord's words. He merely held the position of an apostle but never held the truth of Christ in his heart. One cannot do the things of God without Him in you, but only falsely imitate so (imitation, counterfeit, hypocrite). I'm certain we won't see Judas' name in any of the New Jerusalem foundations, because they only include the final 12.

I don’t know how you could possibly come to that conclusion.

Please share with us where Jesus said Judas was not a true Apostle.


Please address my response to you and the scriptures I gave you about the twelve apostles being destined to reign with Jesus is the age to come. It clearly shows that Judas was certainly predestined for salvation and great honor.


In addition please address my other post with the scripture I presented, showing that Judas followed the Lord for three years then became a traitor. This shows he was indeed a follower of Jesus Christ for three years then deserted the Lord because he became a traitor.

Please address this so I know you understand what the word became references.


I used Saul of Tarsus who became the Apostle Paul.


This illustration serves to help bring understanding that Judas was indeed a follower of Christ for over three years, then he became a traitor. He fell away.

Because he fell away, and became a traitor, means that he was indeed a follower of Christ.

Just as the illustration of someone who deserts the army while under fire, certainly doesn’t mean he was never in the army.


JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

To me, It’s simply a matter of love.

I love my Lord. I know Him. All I want to do is please Him.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


If you had a wife that was sneaking around with other men, then came home to you and said, I love you honey...

Would that please you?




JLB

A good husband can actually love his wife through her sin and make her into the person she is supposed to be.

Ephesians 5:25-30 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church - for we are members of his body.

Mark 10:8-9 "and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let no man separate."

I know that this is a deep mystery of God. I know that a husband's love can/does bring about the best in a woman. How much more can the love of Christ do for those who have been joined together with him?

 

[JLB]

A good husband can actually love his wife through her sin and make her into the person she is supposed to be.

Ephesians 5:25-30 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church - for we are members of his body.

Mark 10:8-9 "and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let no man separate."

I know that this is a deep mystery of God. I know that a husband's love can/does bring about the best in a woman. How much more can the love of Christ do for those who have been joined together with him?

However the day will eventually come if she doesn’t obey that the only alternative is divorce.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

One does not concentrate on keeping Rules to “ prove” that they Love God....People see verses like this and think, “ wow.....I’d better start being more “ obedient” to prove I Love Jesus!”

You simply do not know the scriptures:

"10Therefore, my brothers and sisters, a make every effort to confirm your calling and election." - 2 Peter 1:10

This is for your sake, not God's.
Obedience is how you confirm that you really are called and chosen.
Obedience is the sign of salvation.
It has nothing to do with earning salvation.
It has everything to do with confirming that you are saved.
And if you find that you can't confirm your calling and election, deceived by the false doctrine that dead faith saves, you can then get saved for real this time and start living the life that shows you are a saved person.

 

[LovethroughDove]

However the day will eventually come if she doesn’t obey that the only alternative is divorce.

We are not married to someone we don't respect (speaking church wise). We were married to him because he is Lord (confess with your mouth).

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I kinda like that I get to give you "guys" the wife perspective, cause you don't usually have to see it this way. ??

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe not me, but this ne’er - do- well sure Sounds just like me .....I agree with all that stuff that you think is wrong....
“ God’s Part”was to Send His Son so that His Shed Blood would pay the price for our Sins
“ Our Part” is to “ Believe in the One that He sent”

We were created for two reasons—- to do good Works and to carry the burdens of others .....if we “ Believe in the One that He Sent” , the same Holy Spirit that blessed us enough to make us Believers will transform us into people that are eager to do both of theses things.....

I agree with your second paragraph.
But you don't sound like this in other posts....
I'm just saying that it's important to be clear for new Christians.
Some churches are teaching hyper grace and easy believism (not my terms)
and they're not doing anyone any favor.

The gospel has not changed because it's 2020...it's the same gospel it was 2 thousand years ago.

 

[JLB]

We are not married to someone we don't respect (speaking church wise). We were married to him because he is Lord (confess with your mouth).

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.

We are married to the Lord.

You do understand that their is a penalty called; Divorce for adultery?


Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
James 4:4


My only point is... If a person gets a divorce, does that mean they were never married?


If a person deserts the army during combat because they want to live a little longer, does this mean they were never in the army?



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

I don’t know how you could possibly come to that conclusion.

Please share with us where Jesus said Judas was not a true Apostle.


Please address my response to you and the scriptures I gave you about the twelve apostles being destined to reign with Jesus is the age to come. It clearly shows that Judas was certainly predestined for salvation and great honor.


In addition please address my other post with the scripture I presented, showing that Judas followed the Lord for three years then became a traitor. This shows he was indeed a follower of Jesus Christ for three years then deserted the Lord because he became a traitor.

Please address this so I know you understand what the word became references.


I used Saul of Tarsus who became the Apostle Paul.


This illustration serves to help bring understanding that Judas was indeed a follower of Christ for over three years, then he became a traitor. He fell away.

Because he fell away, and became a traitor, means that he was indeed a follower of Christ.

Just as the illustration of someone who deserts the army while under fire, certainly doesn’t mean he was never in the army.


JLB

The debate concerning Judas ever being a Christian has been going for a long time and there is much research about it if one chooses to view it. I just happen to be on the side that Judas was never saved because there is too much revealed concerning his lifestyle to conclude otherwise. One, among many, I think is definitive within the mass of information in Scripture concerning him is that the Lord knew he was a thief (Jhn 12:6) prior to Satan's control of him; and mostly that "Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray Him" (Jhn 6:64).

I think it's also interesting that Judas never exhibited the Christian behavior of repentance to God for his evil, for he only "repented himself" (Mat 27:3), which has reference to the natural senses:

"Repented himself: not for the sin, as committed against God and Christ; but as it brought a load of present guilt and horror upon his mind, and exposed him to everlasting punishment: it was not such a repentance by which he became wiser and better; but an excruciating, tormenting pain in his mind, by which he became worse; therefore a different word is here used than what commonly is for true repentance: it was not a godly sorrow for sin, or a sorrow for sin, as committed against God, which works repentance to salvation not to be repented of; but a worldly sorrow, which issues in death, as it did in him. It did not spring from the love of God, as evangelical repentance does, nor proceed in the fear of God, and his goodness; but was no other than a foretaste of that worm that dieth not, and of that fire which cannot be quenched: it was destitute of faith in Christ; he never did believe in him as the rest of the disciples did; see John 6:64" Gill

I don't think there's any other information in Scripture (which is much) that would be any more exemplifying than that which has been used in this thread, so I think the issue could be at an impasse for us and we will choose what we will believe concerning it for now.

God bless and God be blessed!

 

[JLB]

The debate concerning Judas ever being a Christian has been going for a long time and there is much research about it if one chooses to view it. I just happen to be on the side that Judas was never saved because there is too much revealed concerning his lifestyle to conclude otherwise. One, among many, I think is definitive within the mass of information in Scripture concerning him is that the Lord knew he was a thief (Jhn 12:6) prior to Satan's control of him; and mostly that "Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray Him" (Jhn 6:64).

I think it's also interesting that Judas never exhibited the Christian behavior of repentance to God for his evil, for he only "repented himself" (Mat 27:3), which has reference to the natural senses:

"Repented himself: not for the sin, as committed against God and Christ; but as it brought a load of present guilt and horror upon his mind, and exposed him to everlasting punishment: it was not such a repentance by which he became wiser and better; but an excruciating, tormenting pain in his mind, by which he became worse; therefore a different word is here used than what commonly is for true repentance: it was not a godly sorrow for sin, or a sorrow for sin, as committed against God, which works repentance to salvation not to be repented of; but a worldly sorrow, which issues in death, as it did in him. It did not spring from the love of God, as evangelical repentance does, nor proceed in the fear of God, and his goodness; but was no other than a foretaste of that worm that dieth not, and of that fire which cannot be quenched: it was destitute of faith in Christ; he never did believe in him as the rest of the disciples did; see John 6:64" Gill

I don't think there's any other information in Scripture (which is much) that would be any more exemplifying than that which has been used in this thread, so I think the issue could be at an impasse for us and we will choose what we will believe concerning it for now.

God bless and God be blessed!

I just go by what the scriptures say.

If we start using man’s opinion I’m sure we can find people on both sides.

Jesus said he was to reign with Him in the age to come.

That is plainly indicating that Judas was destined to have honor and Inherit eternal life.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:28-29

Judas was numbered among the apostles and had a part in the same ministry as Peter, but Judas became a traitor; Judas became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.


“Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
Acts 1:16-17


Judas fell away from Christ, and the ministry he was given.


And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” Acts 1:24-25



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

I just go by what the scriptures say.

If we start using man’s opinion I’m sure we can find people on both sides.

Jesus said he was to reign with Him in the age to come.

That is plainly indicating that Judas was destined to have honor and Inherit eternal life.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:28-29

Judas was numbered among the apostles and had a part in the same ministry as Peter, but Judas became a traitor; Judas became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.


“Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
Acts 1:16-17


Judas fell away from Christ, and the ministry he was given.


And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” Acts 1:24-25



JLB

I understand, and I also appreciate your input in this thread!

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

All of this constant chatter devoted to “ Commandment Keeping”......People are putting the Cart before the Horse......One does not concentrate on keeping Rules to “ prove” that they Love God....People see verses like this and think, “ wow.....I’d better start being more “ obedient” to prove I Love Jesus!”
Jesus is not issuing ultimatums.....He is stating fact .If one Loves Him, Obedience Will flow naturally.....the love comes first......one gets that “ love” when they Rest in the Gospel .....The BURDEN of a Performance -Based Salvation , the constant striving to make one’s-self “ Worthy” Of Heaven —- when all of this HogWash is thrown into the garbage where it belongs —- the Joy , Relief and Gratitude when we now know we can never lose our Salvation spurs the Love That is the Engine that drives Obedience and following Commands.....we do them because we “ want” to not because we think we “ have” to...

sn‘t it great we don’t have to wonder what a Greek word means when we have Jesus and Paul explaining what the mean.

I don’t know Greek from Pig- Latin......of course it is not necessary to master Greek, Hebrew , Aramaic or Latin to understand the Bible ( Hats off to your easy insult! ) The Fact remains , however, that God expects us to “ Rightly Divide” His Word .....he warns us to be Good Students Of His Word, lest we “ stand ashamed”....
There is more confusion about the Word “ repent” than perhaps any other word in the Bible.... the misunderstanding of this Word has delighted Satan more than anything. The vast majority of people never see it as meaning anything other than to “ repent OF SINS” .....They then ignorantly attach it to Salvation even though the Bible NEVER says to “ Repent Of Sins to be Saved”, and I will gladly give $1000 if Anybody can prove me wrong , using the KJV.
I will trot out ANYTHING that can potentially clear up any misunderstanding of , and help in the understanding of , vital words that people need to understand the Bible....confused and poorly taught Believers have taken a good thing like Repentance and slyly turned it into just another Dead Work That is the #1 reason that Churches are full of people“ Fallen From Grace” —- they ignorantly cling to their False belief that if they do not “Repent Of all of their Sins-Before they die, they will go to Hell.Words MATTER!
“ IF” —- by going back to word origins , we can gain a better understanding of how we could be in error about some of the things that we “ think” we know........how can That NOT be a Good Thing.....Will it not make us “ better students of the Word?” Millions could prevent their Faith from becoming “ ship- wrecked” and just as many could prevent themselves from “ Falling From Grace” by understanding that although “ repenting” can , indeed mean “ repent from sins and show sorrow and regret for them” but it most often means to “ change your mind” about something .
If one “ changes their mind” from UNBELIEF in Jesus to a BELIEF in Jesus, that person has Repented unto Salvation. I believe the discovery of this can help a lot of Believers and get them headed in the right direction in the Faith Walks before they get ruined ...
Some people prefer to treat “ IGNORANCE” as if it were a Virtue.....I prefer to take God’s Warning about the Consequences Of NOT being a “ Good Student” Of His Word—- I have No Desire to “ Stand Ashamed” ......studying word origins is not a must....but if it can help people avoid confusion......I think it pleases God to see people take enough interest in His Word to try to REALLY Dig into it! Most people and even Believers just let their Bibles sit around and gather dust.Personally, my Old Bible literally fell into pieces about 3 weeks ago and I had to replace it with a New One. It was NOT an accumulation of Dust that destroyed it.....I think God was-pleased with that.......God Bless.....

 

[JLB]

Salvation even though the Bible NEVER says to “ Repent Of Sins to be Saved”

Why are we discussing this point again.

The Bible does not say repent of your sins to be saved.

It does say repent. Repent means turn to God.

This is the call to turn away from Satan as your lord; your master, the one you serve, by turning to Jesus as your Lord; your Master, the one you serve and obey.

JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Why are we discussing this point again

I am new here.....has this topic been brought up too much?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I just go by what the scriptures say.

No.....you go by what you “ Think” the Scriptures say....just as the rest of us do....One can twist Scriptures to make it mean whatever they want it to mean...I never post ANYTHiNG that I am not convinced is 100% correct ..that don’t mean much. I, like you, can be wrong about everything I think is true....I have bet my Eternal Soul and the Souls Of my Family That I am correct ..... I have absolutely NO DOUBT that I have “ Rightly Divided” the Word Of God.....so what? Legalistic, Religionists are certain that they are correct also.......Time will tell.....
.

 

[jerry63935]

I am new here.....has this topic been brought up too much?

for a long time it was off topic then a new section was added where it could be discussed . it is a very stick subject