The “I AM†debate final put to rest.

[Deborah13]

Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Was the "Ye" meant as all people ever before?

Who was it the Moses spoke to and saw His hand and back side?

 

[SeekHisFace]

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Also, the continuation of this scripture says that after Jesus subdues all things to himself He will be subject to the Father just as we all will be. Soooo...there surely is a "Godhead" and there is an order of all things.

Also...check out Matthew 22. It is about the wedding feast. Notice that the king is the Father. Because He mentions He is preparing a feast for His Son. Also, it mentions that it is the King (the Father) that throws out the one with the wrong apparel...had not a wedding garment on.

 

[John 8:32]

Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Who was it the Moses spoke to and saw His hand and back side?

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Twern't the Father.

 

[SeekHisFace]

Even though that rock was Jesus...it does mean that the Father is of any lesser value. Jesus is the way to the Father, now that He is the High Priest.
Reading the whole book of John tells us of a better picture of what is. He did the Father's will and Jesus said that only those doing the Father's will enter in heaven.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Deborah13]

Twern't the Father.

This is what I suspect as well.

 

[John 8:32]

Even though that rock was Jesus...it does mean that the Father is of any lesser value. Jesus is the way to the Father, now that He is the High Priest.
Reading the whole book of John tells us of a better picture of what is. He did the Father's will and Jesus said that only those doing the Father's will enter in heaven.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The question was...

Who was it the Moses spoke to and saw His hand and back side?

And the answer is, it was Christ.

 

[SeekHisFace]

Even though that rock was Jesus...it does mean that the Father is of any lesser value. Jesus is the way to the Father, now that He is the High Priest.
Reading the whole book of John tells us of a better picture of what is. He did the Father's will and Jesus said that only those doing the Father's will enter in heaven.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The question was...

Who was it the Moses spoke to and saw His hand and back side?

And the answer is, it was Christ.

Forgive me.
I only came in to quote the Isaiah scripture (on the "I am") above---followup on a couple other posts. I shared where the Lord led me, and now I will exit from this thread.
Thank you
Blessings to you all...

 

[Free]

Even though that rock was Jesus...it does mean that the Father is of any lesser value. Jesus is the way to the Father, now that He is the High Priest.
Reading the whole book of John tells us of a better picture of what is. He did the Father's will and Jesus said that only those doing the Father's will enter in heaven.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The question was...

Who was it the Moses spoke to and saw His hand and back side?

And the answer is, it was Christ.

Forgive me.
I only came in to quote the Isaiah scripture (on the "I am") above---followup on a couple other posts. I shared where the Lord led me, and now I will exit from this thread.
Thank you
Blessings to you all...

And that is the topic to which we all should return. :yes

 

[Free]

Forgive me.
I only came in to quote the Isaiah scripture (on the "I am") above---followup on a couple other posts. I shared where the Lord led me, and now I will exit from this thread.
Thank you
Blessings to you all...

And that is the topic to which we all should return. :yes

 

[JLB]

Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Who was it the Moses spoke to and saw His hand and back side?

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Twern't the Father.

What does that have to do with Jesus being called I AM ?

The Father and the Son have the same name.

11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.

It stands to reason that The Name above every name, would be the name of God.

Wouldn't you want your only begotten son to have your name.

Mine does.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

What does that have to do with Jesus being called I AM ?

Moses hearing and seeing the physical body of God and the Rock that follow them in the desert speaks very loudly to Me that Jesus is the "I AM" just as the Father and the Holy Spirit. And that He was always there in the beginning as one the "us" in Genesis.
Just as when He said, "if you have seen me you have seen the Father". They are one and yet separate, the "I Am", God in all His fullness.

I hope that is somewhat clear. As I agreed with [MENTION=88954]John 8:32[/MENTION], I felt I could reply as well.

 

[JLB]

that Jesus is the "I AM" just as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Yes, I agree!

Did you get my point of them having the same name.

The Name of Jesus represents the Godhead.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Did you get my point of them having the same name.

Yes, I did.

 

[cupid dave]

John 8:32


Mat 17:6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.




Yes, this one is very clear as to the disciples actually hearing audibly in my opinion.
When He was baptized it is not so clear I think.

What is important here, (in both cases), is that, BEFORE the baptism, and AFTER the metamorphosis, Jesus was the mere son-of-man, one who had come once "eating and drinking a wine bibber and glutton, vulnerable to pain and death.
The spirit of God had entered Jesus and transfigured him at the baptism, but departed and return Jesus to just a man, again, after the so called "transfiguration."

That was why death was possible, since Jesus was NOT the son-of-God at the time.


Matt 17:8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

 

[Brother Mike]

Deborah13

Moses hearing and seeing the physical body of God and the Rock that follow them in the desert speaks very loudly to Me that Jesus is the "I AM" just as the Father and the Holy Spirit. And that He was always there in the beginning as one the "us" in Genesis.
Just as when He said, "if you have seen me you have seen the Father". They are one and yet separate, the "I Am", God in all His fullness.

Something more understandable. One but separate? We are one flesh with spouse, but separate. We are one in Jesus as He is one in the Father, but we are not God the Father. The Word made flesh, we born of the same word, but we are not God the Father. The Eternal Godhead is made up of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Yet Paul said we are in the God Head making up the body, but we are not God the Father.

If you believe there is an actual Son, one that has always been here with the Father as God is Plural eloyhim meaning two, or family. That also makes Him the I am and God. It does not make him the Father though, nor would God have to split himself up to pretended to be different parts.

God is a generic term denoting a class of something. Satan is the god (Theos) of this Word but that does not make him the father. Jesus called us gods, theos but that just makes us like him in class and not the father. It denotes deity, or immortal spirit. Jesus is God, but not his own father as He has a right to His own throne (Rev)

The KJV is one of the few Bibles the has turned around some scriptures to portray the Trinity Doctrine. Most other translations do not. Instead of Father of eternity (Hebrew correct YLT) which Jesus is the author of eternal life, the KJV uses eternal father giving an impress that Jesus is also his own father.

If we make Jesus a piece of god that is part of a whole God then a whole lot of scriptures no longer make sense. We have to explain two thrones, who God called down to saying this is my son whom I am well pleased, who is the mediator now or is God arguing with himself. If there is one God, we have no advocate unless God has mental health issues.

The Holy Spirit has no throne, God has always taken ownership of the Holy Spirit calling Him my Spirit and the Holy Spirit never speaks on his own but only what He hears. Not God the Father.

So while we ignore tons of other scriptures like Jesus saying my father is greater than I, we have to somehow explain this convoluted mess to the new believer that Jesus is not really the son but part of a god machine that is a God. It's so much simpler to say that when God said Let us Make man in our own image, the future King of Kings was right there working with His Father. Fully God on his own, and not some piece of god.

Mike.

 

[WIP]

I don't have to believe in poly-theism to believe in the trinity. It's when we try to explain it in human terms that we get lost. I would much rather just trust and accept that God is what God is and not try to explain it at all.

 

[Deborah13]

It's so much simpler to say that when God said Let us Make man in our own image, the future King of Kings was right there working with His Father. Fully God on his own, and not some piece of god.

To me it is a mystery. I have tried to sort it out just as most do but the fact is, it's a mystery to me. That's OK, I don't have to understand some things.
I see what you are saying and have thought most of this myself but it does not answer everything clearly.
So the topic is the name 'I am'.

 

[Brother Mike]

I don't have to believe in poly-theism to believe in the trinity. It's when we try to explain it in human terms that we get lost. I would much rather just trust and accept that God is what God is and not try to explain it at all.

Trinity cannot be explained with scriptures. I don't know how many tried to get me to believe that my Jesus was a egg yoke that made up a egg. It's beyond explanation. I believed in Trinity, I was praying and called Jesus God on day. Makes sense as that was what I was taught. Jesus the Word that was made flesh. The Lord spoke up to me inside and said very clearly, "I am, but I am not my Father."

Of course this prompted a massive Bible study. The Lord speaks to you, you just don't ignore it. I did not get it for awhile, I had to figure out that "GOD" is a generic term and not a being made of the parts. In fact, the Bible never describes God this way but in John which was added in the 3rd edition of the Greek text the KJV used for translation. Trinity uses a 3 in one interpretation to prove it's doctrine. The problem is that the lines of method can't be consistent or else we are also God the Father and we are one in Jesus, He in His Father. Trinity omits the parts it does not like. We are also made by the Word just like Jesus (Peter) but that does not make us God the Father. You have to pick and choose.

The word was made flesh also is not consistent in translation. (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten by the Word, made of the Father) In this one case only, in one single scripture we make Jesus to be the actual spiritual, physical Word of God. Jesus name means the Word, He was sent in the last days to give us the Word, but He is not physically the Word of God, but the Son of God. The Word also made tree's which are not God. God spoke, Mary became pregnant by the fulfilled Word. The Word created (made) flesh and came to pass. This is our understanding of the Word everywhere else, unless you have a trinity doctrine to support.

The Holy Spirit does not speak on His own. Does not have a throne like the Son and Father does. He's not God the Father either or else He would speak on His own. Another purposeful oversight as God has always taken ownership of the Holy Spirit. Not by might, but by MY Spirit said the Lord, over and over and over.

The KJV does not help matters either. Best Bible in my opinion but they accepted the doctrine and translated as such, but they did not stay consistent.


Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Two scriptures make Jesus creator, one Makes God the Father creator who gave Jesus all things and made all things because of His son.

Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Jesus never deceived us into thinking He created everything but said His Father has them. We are also Joint Heirs with Jesus meaning everything Jesus has, He got from His Father.

Miss translation of one Greek Word. "BY" DIA
The Word actually means by way of something or through something. (Don't take my word for it, look it up) Because of something. Instead of Jesus being creator, everything was made through and because of Jesus, by His Father.

(Young's Literal Translation)
Joh 1:10 in the world he was, and the world through him was made, and the world did not know him:

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God (EL), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The everlasting father? Who gives us this father or author of something?

Isa 9:7....................The zeal of the LORD (yahoveh) of hosts will perform this.

yahoveh is giving us this son.

young's gets it correct in translation of titles.
Isa 9:6 For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.
Jesus is the last Adam, the author (Father) of eternal life, Who Yehoveh has given us.

The Antichrist would love to make Jesus a piece of god, or blur the Father and Son into a ball of godly goo. He certainly does not want anyone to believe on the Father and Son. (John) Jesus is not a egg yoke, not a piece of god, but fully God, fully the Son of God, has always been here, is the I am like His father and came to earth and died for us.

Mike.

 

[Guest]

I AM, meaning Jesus is God, the beginning and the end. I'm starting to understand why he said this now.