Bible Study The 3 Baptisms

[JLB]

Oh! So now what the entire Church taught for the first 1600 years was heresy.
Brilliant.
Based on what?
Your personal opinion?

Let me state that I believe and teach that people need to be baptized. All three baptisms.


Telling people they are born again “because” they get baptized is Heresy.

People are born again by the Spirit of God when they believe the Gospel.


This is based on the scriptures. Not my opinion.


But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:8-13


again


“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:11-12


again


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23

having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God​

JLB

 

[Conqueror]

Here's what Peter said:

There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

So the word of God states that baptism saves us.

What is it precisely that saves in baptism?

 

[for_his_glory]

JLB and Jim Parker, even though I like a good discussion on baptism, you might want to start a new thread on this as baptism has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Thank you

 

[Jim Parker]

Telling people they are born again “because” they get baptized is Heresy.

I did not say that.
Jesus said that in order to see the kingdom of God one must be baptized in water and in the Spirit.
Someone who desires to see the kingdom of God has already been physically born.
Therefore, to be born again of water cannot possible refer to the amniotic fluid of his original physical birth.

People are born again by the Spirit of God when they believe the Gospel.

From the book of Acts we are shown that some people are born of the Spirit before they are baptized in water (house of Cornelius) and some are baptized in the Holy Spirit after they are baptized in water. (Samaritan believers.)

Jesus said that a believer must be born again of water AND Spirit. To say they are born again only by the Spirit is in direct contradiction of Jesus' explicit words.
Yet you would call the martyrs of the early church heretics for teaching what Jesus and Paul taught!
You are doing quite a jig to dance around the teaching of scripture!

if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Yes the scripture does say that.
It also says: “He who believes and is baptized will be saved;" Mar 16:16a
And it also says: “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Act 2:38

To say that baptism at John 3:5 refers to the natural birth of a human being is ludicrous considering that, in natural childbirth, it is not done "In the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit as commanded by Jesus nor can it be considered the same as natural birth when Peter tells adults to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

 

[JLB]

Jesus said that in order to see the kingdom of God one must be baptized in water and in the Spirit.

Please produce the scripture where Jesus said “in order to see the kingdom of God one must be baptized in water and in the Spirit”.


There is no such verse in the Bible.


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

Please produce the scripture where Jesus said “in order to see the kingdom of God one must be baptized in water and in the Spirit”.
There is no such verse in the Bible.
JLB

Correction. Not "see" but "enter."
Jhn 3:5 “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

 

[ezra]

Please produce the scripture where Jesus said “in order to see the kingdom of God one must be baptized in water and in the Spirit”.


There is no such verse in the Bible.


JLB

the part of the water and spirit imo has nothing to do with baptism..but washing of the word

 

[JLB]

Correction. Not "see" but "enter."
Jhn 3:5 “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Certainly no mention of Baptism here.

You are projected a preconceived idea of Baptism into this verse when Jesus plainly explained what born of water and Spirit meant in the following verse.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:6


Born of water = Born of flesh; Natural birth.


Jesus is teaching this high priest that just because he is a natural child of Abraham doesn’t mean he will be able to enter The kingdom of God.

Jesus is teaching him that he must be born of the Spirit; Born again to enter the kingdom of God.



JLB

 

[JLB]

the part of the water and spirit imo has nothing to do with baptism..but washing of the word

Born of Water is a reference to natural birth.


A person must be born, to be born again.

The spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.


Jesus plainly explains this in the next verse.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:6


IOW, Jesus is politely explaining that just because Nicodemus is a natural child of Abraham doesn’t mean he will enter the kingdom of God.


Sons of God are not produced through natural birth, as what many thought in that day.

This was the common misconception of that time, that because they were the natural offspring of Abraham that they were automatically sons of God.


Paul said it this way -

Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. Galatians 3:7


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

the part of the water and spirit imo has nothing to do with baptism..but washing of the word

Exactly as the word water in John 3:5 means living word as in fountains of living water.

 

[Jim Parker]

the part of the water and spirit imo has nothing to do with baptism..but washing of the word

Here's what the BIBLE teaches:

Phillip on the road to Gaza Acts 8:36-38 And as they went along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water! What is to prevent my being baptized?" And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
That was baptism in WATER.

Peter at the house of Cornelius Acts 10: 47-48 "Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
That was also a baptism in WATER

Paul baptizes the disciples at Ephesus Act 19:3-5 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.” Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Here the Bible speaks of two baptisms; John's baptism of repentance and the Bbaptism commanded by Jesu in the name of hte Father, son and Holy Spirit. John's baptism was in water. Both baptisms were in WATER.

 

[ezra]

Here's what the BIBLE teaches:

Phillip on the road to Gaza Acts 8:36-38 And as they went along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water! What is to prevent my being baptized?" And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
That was baptism in WATER.

Peter at the house of Cornelius Acts 10: 47-48 "Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
That was also a baptism in WATER

Paul baptizes the disciples at Ephesus Act 19:3-5 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.” Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Here the Bible speaks of two baptisms; John's baptism of repentance and the Bbaptism commanded by Jesu in the name of hte Father, son and Holy Spirit. John's baptism was in water. Both baptisms were in WATER.

water baptism follows spiritual birth born of the natural water ? where does it say in the Bible h20==water is essential to being saved jlb comments of the natural birth i have heard taught . this is my reference
Ephesians 5:26

“That he might sanctify and { cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,” } i really wish you could be more professional in your reply . i have given you due respect for your education i am not interested in trading spiritual jabs.. i also realize you lean heavy towards the early fathers teachings. but they are mere humans and subject to error . not purposely. we all have opinion and mean well by them but we can be in error i can be as well.. i dont feel that i am. this is why i provided scripture .the important thing is Born of the spirit IF WERE Born AGAIN THEN EVERY THING IS took care of... { the caps are not for yelling but making a statement }

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

John 15:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are {clean } {through the word} which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

 

[Jim Parker]

i really wish you could be more professional in your reply

I'm trying to be as specific as possible while keeping it a simple as possible.
I gave you scriptures that clearly demonstrate that Baptism is in water.
I don't know what more you could possibly need to see that baptism is in water.
Washing of the word is an ongoing process for the rest of a person's life.
Being baptized is a one time event.
Is it possible to see baptism as "washing in the word" while baptizing someone in water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit?

Why in the world would Peter ask, "Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" if baptism is not in water????

I don't understand why anyone could not understand that baptism is in water based on even that one question asked by Peter.

 

[ezra]

I gave you scriptures that clearly demonstrate that Baptism is in water.
What more can you [possible need?

just wait i never said baptism IS NOT WATER .........i would hope you dont think i am some novice talking out my backside. i am referring to born of the spirit and water. the water from what i have read=the word . i have done baptismal and they have all been in water what more do i need? not a thing

 

[Jim Parker]

just wait i never said baptism IS NOT WATER .........i would hope you dont think i am some novice talking out my backside. i am referring to born of the spirit and water. the water from what i have read=the word . i have done baptismal and they have all been in water what more do i need? not a thing

Again.
Why would Peter tell the people on the day of Pentecost that they needed to repent and be baptized and then they would receive the gift of the Spirit.
That's being "born again" of water and spirit.

Being born or born again is an event, not an ongoing process. Being washed in the word is an ongoing continuous process, not an event.

It is what the majority of the Church has taught for 2000 years.

I really do not understand all the resistance to what has been sound doctrine since day one.

 

[ezra]

It is what the majority of the Church has taught for 2000 years. On what basis do you think you know better?

what bases same as them through study but here is something for you..i never claimed that i knew better baptism follows salvation. water is not the saving element the spirit and the blood spirit quickens the Blood cleans . there are many things that was taught 2000 years ago . that was not correct look how peter felt about the gentiles ..since your on a roll what is the gift of the spirit ? might i add the thief on the cross was not baptized

 

[JLB]

Our disagreement is not about baptism but about the phrase “born or water” in John 3:5.

I see that this phrase “born of water” is a reference to natural birth, as Jesus so plainly, explains what He means in the next verse.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

You see this as meaning Baptism in water, where you attempt to teach that people are
“born again” of water baptism.


The claim that “the entire Church from the beginning until certain protesting individuals some 1500 years later decided to reform the church” is blatantly false.


No where in the Bible is the phrase found
“born again of water”.


Jesus says you must be born again.

Jesus did not say you must be born again of water.


People are born again by obeying the Gospel, through the Spirit, not by water baptism.


The Spirit gives birth to spirit.


Water baptism does not give birth to spirit.


having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
1 Peter 1:23


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

I see that this phrase “born of water” is a reference to natural birth, as Jesus so plainly, explains what He means in the next verse.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

You see this as meaning Baptism in water, where you attempt to teach that people are
“born again” of water baptism.

As Nicodemus pointed out, one cannot be "born again" by a natural birth.
As the entire Church taught from the 1st century, it is a reference to baptism in water.
As Jesus commanded, it is a baptism in water.
As Luke reports in Acts, it is baptism in water.

 

[JLB]

To be born again, once must first be born.

Natural birth. Born of water

Then spiritual birth. Born of the Spirit.


JLB

 

[JLB]

None of the Apostles ever taught that we are born again of water.



JLB