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Bible Study The Ark of the Covenant

ugmug

Member
The Ark of the Covenant - A Filthy Rag?

I just wanted to pass along something that God revealed to me last night when I went to bible study organized by Jew for Jesus.

Since this week was Yom Kippur the bible study was about the procedures of the High Priest as he entered the Holy of Holies this one day of the year. God then put into my mind a thought about all the smearing of blood on the 'Mercy Seat'. Does this blood ever get washed off? I asked the group if this blood was ever washed off and they all said emphatically - no!

I then remarked that there must have been a strong stench of foul odor since all the blood from all the previous years was still on the Ark of the Covenant! The speaker smiled and said he'll leave that to my imagination. But I knew that he recognized the same thing that I did for he then recited Isaiah 64:6!

Isaiah 64:6 New International Version (NIV)

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

So even the ceremony on Yom Kippur - The Day of Atonement - is liken to a filthy rag (hint: translated as menstruation rag) for that is what the Ark of the Covenant had become with all that splattered blood and foul odors. All man's efforts to work his own salvation through ceremony is useless. Only the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the true 'ceremony' that brings salvation to mankind!

God Bless

note:
I'd always thought being the High Priest was a desirable position. Now I realize that it is otherwise!
 
Wow, I can't believe that the mercy seat was not cleansed by the High Priest. Lets see if we can find an answer?
 
The Ark of the Covenant symbolized Christ's promised incarnation, death, and resurrection within world history. The blood of animal sacrifices was only ever a temporary substitute until the Mercy Seat was occupied. It is Jesus' blood that makes us clean. Removing His blood would symbolize denying the wine of communion, thus rejecting The Holy Spirit.
 
The mercy seat is where God meets man somehow i can't think of it stinking, more like a sweet savor. Our God is a consuming fire wouldn't it be burned/purified off?

tob

*edit: spelling
 
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The Ark of the Covenant did not become as a filthy rag. The blood of those sacrifices was for the purifying of the ark.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Messiah is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of Elohim for us:

Animal sacrifices purified the earthly ark, but they were not capable of purifying the heavenly ark. Only Yeshua's blood could do that.


Concerning the mercy seat, Lev 16:15 says the blood of the sin offering was to be sprinkled on the mercy seat. The mercy seat was the lid or cover for the ark of the covenant.

And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. (Hebrews 9:3-5)

“Mercy seat” is from the Greek word “hilasterion” (Strong's #2435). This same word was also used in Romans 3:25:

Whom Elohim has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Elohim;

“Propitiation” is the Greek word “hilasterion.” Yeshua is being called by the same word as “mercy seat.” Not only does Yeshua fulfill the type of the sin offering and the High Priest, but he also fulfills the type of the mercy seat in that the sins of Israel were deposited on that seat or on Yeshua himself.

Concerning the atonement ceremony, it was fulfilled, but the day itself continues because there is more to be fulfilled. Anyone who does not keep it holy is making a terrible mistake.
 
Wasn't the mercy seat in the holy of holies and only 'visited ' once a year?
"the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own." (Hebrews 9:25 NASB)

"to make atonement for the sons of Israel for all their sins once every year.” (Leviticus 16:34 NASB)
 
yeah .. I dont like even reading the thought of the Mercy Seat of my God being considered filthy rags...
I don't either, reba. It's a misguided, erroneous connection between the law, and self-righteousness.
Not everybody who kept the law was self-righteous. Keeping the ceremonial law is not by definition being self-righteous. It's only that if one makes it that.

I don't know why somebody would want to call the way God had his people get their sins forgiven before the revelation of Christ 'filthy rags'.
 
Not only does Yeshua fulfill the type of the sin offering and the High Priest, but he also fulfills the type of the mercy seat in that the sins of Israel were deposited on that seat or on Yeshua himself.
:clap

I have learned to insert 'people of God' when I see 'Isreal' when talking about these kinds of things. The system of worship was for the people of God, which we are now:

"for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY." (1 Peter 2:10 NASB capitals in original)


.
 
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Hebrews 9:26
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Leviticus 16:14
And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times.

The amount of blood taken on a finger must not have been much. We have little information today.

Jesus bled when he was beaten.
Jesus bled when he was crucified .
Jesus bled when the spear pierced him.

The amount of blood taken into heaven (on his finger to the right hand of the Father) may not be a lot.

The reality is Christ Jesus ascended into heaven. The mercy seat on earth was just a shadow of things to come.

The final blood moon (IMHO) is the symbol of Christ's blood taken into heaven (in reality or symbolically is probably not that important). We receive mercy because of his intercession (seated at the right hand of the Father ).

An ox can compare to a bishop, so symbolism seems not the thing to examine in minute detail. The split hoof rolls the seed coat to be winnowed away, and the multiple stomachs digest the plant fiber. Shall me not meditate on all this till we understand ?

eddif
 
there was nothing unclean as per blood at the mercy seat as stated it was symbolic. just like noah and the ark and all the animals .lets put it this way. its a God thing. so it was took care of decently and in order
 
The Ark of the Covenant - A Filthy Rag?

I just wanted to pass along something that God revealed to me last night when I went to bible study organized by Jew for Jesus.

Since this week was Yom Kippur the bible study was about the procedures of the High Priest as he entered the Holy of Holies this one day of the year. God then put into my mind a thought about all the smearing of blood on the 'Mercy Seat'. Does this blood ever get washed off? I asked the group if this blood was ever washed off and they all said emphatically - no!

I then remarked that there must have been a strong stench of foul odor since all the blood from all the previous years was still on the Ark of the Covenant! The speaker smiled and said he'll leave that to my imagination. But I knew that he recognized the same thing that I did for he then recited Isaiah 64:6!

Isaiah 64:6 New International Version (NIV)

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

So even the ceremony on Yom Kippur - The Day of Atonement - is liken to a filthy rag (hint: translated as menstruation rag) for that is what the Ark of the Covenant had become with all that splattered blood and foul odors. All man's efforts to work his own salvation through ceremony is useless. Only the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the true 'ceremony' that brings salvation to mankind!

God Bless

note:
I'd always thought being the High Priest was a desirable position. Now I realize that it is otherwise!

The "Filthy rag" represents our attempts to be righteous.
The sprinkling of blood on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant was commanded by God. I would hardly call a act which God commanded a "filthy rag."

It was a foreshadowing of God's mercy, demonstrated in the death of His Son on the cross, done for the sake of all creation so that, by His resurrection, the power of death would be destroyed and eternal life would be opened up to all who believe. I would hardly call that a "filthy rag."

The Ark of the Covenant is also a symbol of the Blessed Virgin Mary who carried within her womb the creator of heaven and earth. As the Ark was the place where God would meet with the high priest, Mary was the Ark by and through whom God would become man so that all mankind might be united to Him in his flesh.

The Ark of the Covenant is part of the story of God's mercy by which He has redeemed all from death and opened paradise to whosoever would believe.

That is hardly a "filthy rag."

Just my 2 kopecks
jim
 
The Ark of the Covenant is also a symbol of the Blessed Virgin Mary who carried within her womb the creator of heaven and earth. As the Ark was the place where God would meet with the high priest, Mary was the Ark by and through whom God would become man so that all mankind might be united to Him in his flesh.
And Mary is an illustration of all of us in whom the image of Christ is being formed:

"My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you" (Galatians 4:19 NASB)
 
Bible study?

Hebrews 9:4
Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

The first covenant had a symbols that contained information about that covenant.

Hebrews 8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

To make a comment here could take a thousand words. I will try to start with just a few.

Heaven itself now contains our intercessor, Jesus Christ. He is now continually making intercession for us. The ark was only approached once each year. As a shadow or type the ark has limited relevance to today. Does the ark apply today? How? That may take longer to discuss.

There is a need for intercession, but I vote for the new continual intercession. I really strain at not trying to make this a battle, but only study. I hope I only did the study comments.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
The Holy Spirit, speaking through Stephen, disclosed that it was Jesus, carried therein:

Acts 7:
44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

Yes, there are many pictures or shadows in the O.T. What are they shadows of are the questions of interest. The patterns are actually quite beautiful, and tell of deeper matters of faith, which the N.T. writers examined intimately. Ultimately, those patterns speak of Jesus within the hearts of His People, and, in the summation, destroying the enemies and restoring/resurrecting us.

These matters are shown after Gods Pattern, which is highlighted by Paul in 1 Cor. 15 as follows, "first the natural, then the spiritual." Jesus Himself conformed to this pattern, coming first as a natural man, then Resurrected, as a picture for all who follow Him. Even with Israel of the flesh, God arrived first to the natural man. The man who is in bondage. Even in covenants, there are two, which Paul again isolated in Gal. 4, showing that there is a covenant against the flesh and a covenant for the spirit.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

There is only so much that the flesh will understand, and that, not much.

I've asked myself many many times, why all these rituals and patterns, and have studied them, at this point, all of my adult life. They are entirely fascinating in showing "how" God in Christ works in the world. Following the trails of the Ark we find it first in the desert or wilderness, then carried into the promised land, eventually placed in the temple of the rich man. From there, Israel was basically destroyed and taken into captivity. The second temple did not have the ark. It basically disappeared, just as told by Jeremiah, in chapter 3, showing it will not reappear nor come to mind in the restoration. The second temple was basically "empty" of the ark, and is representative of a broken people, awaiting the Messiah, The True Ark who eventually came to the empty second temple. The second temple fwiw was more glorious in Gods Eyes, than the temple of the "rich man."

There are various discourses that run with these matters. They also seem to come in 3's. This pattern of 3's can be observed in many places in the text. Adam, to the corrupt people destroyed, to saved Noah is a 3 pattern as well. A similar 3 pattern is established with the ark/temple studies. Temple in the wilderness, rich man's temple, restored temple, eventually destroyed.

Jesus was also the fulfillment of the natural temple. Believers, the second, which, if we follow similar patterns, is fated to similar, now observed in disarray essentially in a "vile body", awaiting the "final temple" which is exemplified by Paul in Phil. 3:21.

All of these things follow patterns, and I would observe that God in Christ is and remains operational in/on the earth after the fashions of His Workings shown in the O.T. Shown in the N.T. and also unfolding currently. On the earth itself, there were 3 patterns of 3. The first pattern was pre flood, the second, with natural Israel, the third the church of the N.T. We are in the last pattern currently, even in the final stages.

The stage we sum up in is in Mystery Babylon, which is basically where the church is today in it's disarray and captivity, similar to the last temple of Israel, as we await the culmination of Phil. 3:21, the elimination of the vile body and the final destruction of the "real" enemies of the people, the devil and his messengers, who are in fact "in the temple" of man, sinning. And have been from day 1 of natural man.

No study of any of these matters is complete without taking them into account in all these patterns.
 
The Ark of the Covenant - A Filthy Rag?

I just wanted to pass along something that God revealed to me last night when I went to bible study organized by Jew for Jesus.

Since this week was Yom Kippur the bible study was about the procedures of the High Priest as he entered the Holy of Holies this one day of the year. God then put into my mind a thought about all the smearing of blood on the 'Mercy Seat'. Does this blood ever get washed off? I asked the group if this blood was ever washed off and they all said emphatically - no!

I then remarked that there must have been a strong stench of foul odor since all the blood from all the previous years was still on the Ark of the Covenant! The speaker smiled and said he'll leave that to my imagination. But I knew that he recognized the same thing that I did for he then recited Isaiah 64:6!

Isaiah 64:6 New International Version (NIV)

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

So even the ceremony on Yom Kippur - The Day of Atonement - is liken to a filthy rag (hint: translated as menstruation rag) for that is what the Ark of the Covenant had become with all that splattered blood and foul odors. All man's efforts to work his own salvation through ceremony is useless. Only the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the true 'ceremony' that brings salvation to mankind!

God Bless

note:
I'd always thought being the High Priest was a desirable position. Now I realize that it is otherwise!

Did you consider that the scripture was for you Isaiah 64:6 as you attempted to read something into God's word that was not there nor relevant? I find it blasphemous to read unclean into anything pertaining to God. Open your bible there are many references about blood and the handling there of. Life itself is in the blood Leviticus 17:11

peter
 
Did you consider that the scripture was for you Isaiah 64:6 as you attempted to read something into God's word that was not there nor relevant? I find it blasphemous to read unclean into anything pertaining to God. Open your bible there are many references about blood and the handling there of. Life itself is in the blood Leviticus 17:11

peter
I would consider the sins of Israel were like a rag and a temporal ark was brought in as a school master till Christ be come.

Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Romans. 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Ok Reba keep us posted on what we can call bible study. This is interesting enough to not ruin, and I realize I could ruin it.

eddif
 
The Holy Spirit, speaking through Stephen, disclosed that it was Jesus, carried therein:

Acts 7:
44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

Yes, there are many pictures or shadows in the O.T. What are they shadows of are the questions of interest. The patterns are actually quite beautiful, and tell of deeper matters of faith, which the N.T. writers examined intimately. Ultimately, those patterns speak of Jesus within the hearts of His People, and, in the summation, destroying the enemies and restoring/resurrecting us.

These matters are shown after Gods Pattern, which is highlighted by Paul in 1 Cor. 15 as follows, "first the natural, then the spiritual." Jesus Himself conformed to this pattern, coming first as a natural man, then Resurrected, as a picture for all who follow Him. Even with Israel of the flesh, God arrived first to the natural man. The man who is in bondage. Even in covenants, there are two, which Paul again isolated in Gal. 4, showing that there is a covenant against the flesh and a covenant for the spirit.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

There is only so much that the flesh will understand, and that, not much.

I've asked myself many many times, why all these rituals and patterns, and have studied them, at this point, all of my adult life. They are entirely fascinating in showing "how" God in Christ works in the world. Following the trails of the Ark we find it first in the desert or wilderness, then carried into the promised land, eventually placed in the temple of the rich man. From there, Israel was basically destroyed and taken into captivity. The second temple did not have the ark. It basically disappeared, just as told by Jeremiah, in chapter 3, showing it will not reappear nor come to mind in the restoration. The second temple was basically "empty" of the ark, and is representative of a broken people, awaiting the Messiah, The True Ark who eventually came to the empty second temple. The second temple fwiw was more glorious in Gods Eyes, than the temple of the "rich man."

There are various discourses that run with these matters. They also seem to come in 3's. This pattern of 3's can be observed in many places in the text. Adam, to the corrupt people destroyed, to saved Noah is a 3 pattern as well. A similar 3 pattern is established with the ark/temple studies. Temple in the wilderness, rich man's temple, restored temple, eventually destroyed.

Jesus was also the fulfillment of the natural temple. Believers, the second, which, if we follow similar patterns, is fated to similar, now observed in disarray essentially in a "vile body", awaiting the "final temple" which is exemplified by Paul in Phil. 3:21.

All of these things follow patterns, and I would observe that God in Christ is and remains operational in/on the earth after the fashions of His Workings shown in the O.T. Shown in the N.T. and also unfolding currently. On the earth itself, there were 3 patterns of 3. The first pattern was pre flood, the second, with natural Israel, the third the church of the N.T. We are in the last pattern currently, even in the final stages.

The stage we sum up in is in Mystery Babylon, which is basically where the church is today in it's disarray and captivity, similar to the last temple of Israel, as we await the culmination of Phil. 3:21, the elimination of the vile body and the final destruction of the "real" enemies of the people, the devil and his messengers, who are in fact "in the temple" of man, sinning. And have been from day 1 of natural man.

No study of any of these matters is complete without taking them into account in all these patterns.
Your statement
"Yes, there are many pictures or shadows in the O.T. What are they shadows of are the questions of interest. The patterns are actually quite beautiful, and tell of deeper matters of faith, which the N.T. writers examined intimately. Ultimately, those patterns speak of Jesus within the hearts of His People, and, in the summation, destroying the enemies and restoring/resurrecting us."

Patterns (IMHO) can be used to conceal. Isaiah 6, Matthew 13, Mark 4 all have the same subject covered. (So seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not hear). I am a nut for symbolism, but shadows are not always the thing to be studied. If a bird soars overhead you can take high resolution photos of the shadow on the ground, but you will be missing a lot of information (color, detail, reality). If you turn the camera to the sky and get high resolution photos of the bird your information greatly expands.

With the Holy Spirit leading, now / today / after Pentecost, we can use patterns to understand. At a point in time these same patterns concealed till a later date. This use of patterns takes care (care I am more and more being drawn into). Christ Jesus is the solid reality casting the shadows.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Different groups using their ability to see patterns ; can arrive at different thoughts. My ability to see patterns sometimes leaves me isolated from the thoughts of others. The NT / NC Jewish authors explain a lot. Differing translations sometimes help the patterns spring alive. Bible study really is great (when I can die to self).

There must be differences among us.
I Corinthians 11:19
Of course, there must be factions among you to show which of you are genuine! ISV

KJV Uses hereseys for factions.

Bible study. Wow. Do we see the solid?

Redneck Mississippi type person
eddif
 
Patterns (IMHO) can be used to conceal. Isaiah 6, Matthew 13, Mark 4 all have the same subject covered. (So seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not hear). I am a nut for symbolism,

My passions reside on the parable/allegory/similitude side of Gods Words as well. He speaks through Images, as His Image, we know. The Glory and Word of God is quite powerful, therefore it is "toned down" for us to hear in this manner. Even when speaking plain Hebrew or Aramaic, it was the Image of God who spoke (I speak of Christ-Luke 8:11). And, since you hit quite solidly on some "dissection" keys in the scripture citings above, I might think you've "heard," or should I say, have been led to hear, some interesting matters. For me, the Parable is quite Living and Active, before my eyes, each day. Yes, God is quite entirely Alive, His Hands Perpetually upon the earth, viewable, discernible, in all the images of the earth. I see that the literal/physical are actually images, not the other way around, where the literal rules over the images.

So, since you "hear" a bit, perhaps more, in the line of parable, the ark was covered with the skin of an unclean animal, the badger specifically, and this over rams skin, dyed red. How pretty is that? And, just to make this "personal" Ezekiel told Israel that it was "them" who were covered in badger skins, NOT just the ark. Ezekiel 16:10. Paul draws heavily on these matters for example, showing the reality of our present covering in 1 Cor. 15:43-49, which is the unclean covering. Dishonor, weakness, corruption, a natural body that is vile, Phil. 3:21. And under that covering, the red dyed skin of a sacrifice, which is another layer to these matters. And that, not necessarily linked to Christ, but the sacrifice that will be made in the end, when the devil and his messengers are 'burnt up.' Sacrifices are deeply allegorical. As are the food laws, etc. But these all conform to a more basic pattern of dissection, found in Mark 4 and the other seed parables.
but shadows are not always the thing to be studied. If a bird soars overhead you can take high resolution photos of the shadow on the ground, but you will be missing a lot of information (color, detail, reality). If you turn the camera to the sky and get high resolution photos of the bird your information greatly expands.

With the Holy Spirit leading, now / today / after Pentecost, we can use patterns to understand. At a point in time these same patterns concealed till a later date. This use of patterns takes care (care I am more and more being drawn into). Christ Jesus is the solid reality casting the shadows.

It is extremely important to avoid the bread of contention when engaging in parables with others. Those who practice offense will hear and learn nothing. It is noticeably difficult territory to traverse, because of it's reality in Mark 4:15. You WILL find this out, as a personal matter, should you be led in. And it will lead to being somewhat troubled, to show you the reality of Gods Hand, on the left side of the ledgers. But you see, this chastisement and tribulation, we are meant to "personally" engage, if we are sons of God in Christ. Our chastisement/tribulations will never equal what Jesus went through. The Perfect Lamb suffered more, because He was not a "subject" of the lesser elements, as we are. God Paid an infinite price in our behalves, sharing in our adversity. Again, quite beautiful.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Different groups using their ability to see patterns ; can arrive at different thoughts. My ability to see patterns sometimes leaves me isolated from the thoughts of others.

True. The understandings in these matters come in bits and pieces. Sometimes after years, decades, a lifetime. To walk the parable requires a similar walk of the Israelites through the two walls of water in the Red Sea, on the left and the right. It doesn't pay to stray to either side. And there is a reason for this, that is personal. The Right Hand of God is meant to lift us, bless us. The Left, for our adversaries. We bear these in our own flesh. So, it's in the middle we must walk to find our present life.
The NT / NC Jewish authors explain a lot. Differing translations sometimes help the patterns spring alive. Bible study really is great (when I can die to self).

There must be differences among us.
I Corinthians 11:19
Of course, there must be factions among you to show which of you are genuine! ISV

KJV Uses hereseys for factions.

Bible study. Wow. Do we see the solid?

Redneck Mississippi type person
eddif

I have engaged many different camps of allegory in my lifetime. Some quite entirely by accident. There are patterns there, as well. Sometimes you can be led to ill sighted camp, just prior to the gems camp, or vice versa. These events are patternistic in the text, and in our own lives. To see how this operates, read what happens after the Word was sown in Peter, in Matt. 16, Mark 8. Even Jesus, being led into the wilderness, desert, was followed by whom? Who followed Israel into the Red Sea? Same picture. Who is Pharaoh? It was not a flesh man, but an image that is being conveyed to us. The 'real' Pharaoh is revealed in Ezek. 29:3. And yes, it was Gods Word who hardened his heart, and caused him to pursue Israel, Jesus, Peter, even Paul in 2 Cor. 12:7. Now flip to Mark 16:17, to see that these things do happen to us, when we are in Truth, as a present tense "sign," given by God, to those who follow Him. And, I will attest to you, that these are "real" signs. And, from God in Christ.

And these will conform to the travels of the ark in many ways as well. God is far more interesting, under the covers and in the shadows. Surface babble (strict literalism) doesn't interest me, much at all.
 
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