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The ban on fossil fuel vehicles, and stoves is just a war on oil, while forcing the battery electric vehicle agenda

MayGodHeal

Member
We kind of hijacked the "do you cook with gas?" discussion but I felt like this is needed.

If you haven't already heard, Wyoming is proposing to ban the sale of electric vehicles by 2035 to protect the oil industry. While Wyoming only has 330 registered EVs in the entire state the proposed ban is more of a statement than an actual ban.

The people who are pushing for the end of internal combustion engines doesn't get the meaning behind it and think "The GOP are backwards thinking people".

They don't stop to think that their electric vehicle push, the bans of internal combustion engines (ICE) and the war on oil has anything to do with it.

Beforr 2016 I thought Teslas were interesting and it was nice to have alternatives. It was until around 2018 when these people got aggressive and started pushing for the end of ICE and waging war against big oil is when I started pushing back against the EV agenda. And the war against big oil has been happening for decades and lead to believe this is the real reason we had the fuel crisis in the 70s.

Seems that history is repeating itself and these people that are waging war against big oil hasnt learned their lesson. We know big oil is another greedy entity but at the same time we depend on oil for everything. It's why we're living in modern society. But it isnt our place to judge the oil companies either and personally I would prefer to rely on American oil vs foreign. We do have the ability to produce it far cleaner than the foreign countries do.

We also have alternatives like synthetic (E) Fuels and hydrogen. I'm hearing other forms of fuel/energy so it's not like we're going to be relying on oil forever but the war on oil is hurting the every day working man. A lot of this push towards electric vehicles is evil, or the way they are pushing it. They often talk only of the positives but never disclose the negatives or they just downplay those.

Realistically the auto industry accounts for a large portion of our economy and by changing over to electric it would reduce our job force. If we were to switch to electric it would need to take decades to do, without harming jobs in the process. In essence, trust and let God take control of the situation rather than forcing it.

Many people depend on ICE to get to work or whatever priorities and basically the ICE is essential. Of course we made it that way due to the fact we decided spreading our cities further apart and basically our cities were built inneffeciently around the car instead of building cities around humans.

That's fine, nothing here is perfect and if humanity chooses too we can fix that but by doing so slowly. But thats really not the subject I'm really discussing.. it's the war against big oil and its more of a revenge against oil rather than just cleaning the air.

While cleaning the air would be a nice thing you cant force it to happen and that's exactly what these people are doing, is forcing the end of ICE. Instead of just simply advertising EVs they just flat out tell people that buying ICE is not a financially good decision as if they have some kind of reason why.. like the war against oil which in turn causes fuel prices to go up. That right there is market manipulation.

This in turn creates chaos because for starters there isn't an infrastructure for EVs and many people will end up losing jobs because they no longer are able to afford to get to work. Public transportation is really poor and this goes back to poor city design which revolves around the car. So basically again the ICE is a necessity.

These people are not just waging war against big oil, they're also waging war against the every day American. When you seek revenge, dig 2 graves. One for your enemy and one for yourself. That's what revenge does.

They're doing the same thing to Tesla as well. They don't like what Elon Musk is doing with Twitter so they try to oust Tesla but talk about shooting themselves in the foot because they're also degrading EVs by showing how much of a problem they really are, like batteries don't work well in the cold and potentially worse than ICE fuel consumption. Charging time vs gas fillup time is another problem.

So really this is just how far are these people willing to go and well.. these people pushing EVs are doing so in an evil manner so.. they're willing to all the way.

So its really not my issue if EVs miserably fail. While its my opinion EVs should miserably fail it's really to teach these people that forcing EVs, especially in an evil manner will not work and will backfire. And it already has. But I don't expect them to understand it until EVs completely fail, if they would even understand that.

They may think what they are doing is for a cause but, its revenge and evil. They're doing the same with gas stoves.

In both situations, both ICE and gas stoves are not environmentally friendly. Then consider that this life is temporary and we should just "let it be" and allow God to take control of the situation rather than play God.


This was pretty long but.. well it needs to be said.
 
HI MayGodHeal

You know, there wouldn't be ICE cars today had not men figured out how to feed an engine with gasoline.

Now, we're moving to a new generation of transportation with electrical current.

It's not a perfected system yet, just as it took years to get the modern day automobile running with gas stations on every corner, it will take a few years to get this new system up and running.

However, there is something for all the naysayers to consider. The world gulps down some 88 million barrels of crude per day. While we do seem to have a comfortable 1.6 trillion barrels of still available, that is an estimate, it is a finite commodity. Now, if my math is correct: 1.6 trillion divided by 88 million=19,300 days worth of oil at present usage. If we then divide that by 365 days for each year, we come up with: 52 years worth of supply left.

So, assuming that we don't find any oil reserves that we have so far missed, in 50 years we may be glad that we started developing alternative energy sources for our transportation needs.

Just something to consider in this discussion. BTW I'm pretty confident that Wyoming is just flapping it's authoritative wings.

God bless,
Ted
 
miamited it isn't the 1900s.

I was not implying we should stick with fossil fuels. I'm implying that we allow other fuels to gain traction. Battery cars replacing gasoline vehicles won't solve this issue. Where are you going to get all the materials from, electricity? We don't have the infrastructure for complete replacement for oil. Not to mention the massive waste from abandoning internal combustion engine technology.

While we should come up with ways to lessen our need for oil that doesnt mean battery electric should replace it.

We already have internal combustion vehicles running on hydrogen and synthetic fuels. That is not an exact replacement for fossil fuels but it would lessen the demand for it and oil companies in the U.S. just has to switch over. As for oil reserve capacity, the better question is how much do we actually have? They lied to us before and I'll have to look for that article from the other discussion however again. Wyoming is proposing a ban on EVs in light of California, other states and other countries are banning the sale of new ICE.

Pushing electric vehicles when people are struggling to pay for basic necessities is a really bad idea. Even in a strong economy it's not a bright idea. Rather than expecting society to switch to EVs the technology needs to be better. This is why hydrogen has better potential along with other fuel alternatives using existing technology.

We're not going to stop using fossil fuels by forcing alternatives that people do not want. I myself do not want an EV, we do have plenty of oil and in 20 years a lot can change. Forcing the end of ICE is not the way forward.
 
Hi MayGodHeal
Where are you going to get all the materials from,
Most materials used in battery production are recyclable. But again, all those issues will have to be worked out. Just like the pioneers in automobile travel wondered how they were going to find gas if they went out of town.

Since your not implying that we stick with fossil fuels, what better alternative do you have that can be put on the table right now to move us to next generation fuel? Right now, electric current seems to be the best option and what we need to work on are:
1. How do we fuel millions of cars with electrical current?
2. How can we quickly refuel/replace depleted batteries?

Of course there are several other less important issues, but I think those two are the main ones that keep people from just jumping right on.

Right now, the only other real fuel alternatives that I've seen are using waste kitchen oil or seaweed or hydrogen. Certainly some worthy ideas there, but they aren't anywhere near as being complete and in the market. There are a few fleets using hydrogen, but we have the same problem with hydrogen as with electricity, in that there is no gridwork to get the product in the vehicle. However, even in that, electrical current is far ahead.

As for oil reserve capacity, the better question is how much do we actually have? They lied to us before and I'll have to look for that article from the other discussion however again. Wyoming is proposing a ban on EVs in light of California, other states and other countries are banning the sale of new ICE.
Why does oil reserve capacity come into this? It is what it is. So what if they lied to you about how much they had 2 years ago or last week? Look the people of Wyoming are, I'm sure a good and proud people. Yea them!!!! You think the state with practically the smallest population is going to make a big difference in where this is going? Fat chance! And really, just how stupid is it to put out a law just because your nose is out of joint with other states that are working towards the new alternative fuel sourcing for our cars? Sounds like an unwell thought out law, but hey, we'll see. If I'm alive 10 years from now, it'll be interesting to see if that law is still on the books, if it even makes it now.
Pushing electric vehicles when people are struggling to pay for basic necessities is a really bad idea.
Yeah!! Just like pushing gasoline vehicles when people are struggling to pay for basic necessities is just as bad an idea. Really??? That's one of your reasons that we shouldn't develop the electric vehicle technology. I'm surprised you let Apple live. Pushing $1,400 phones when people are struggling just to live! The chutzpah of such people!!!
We're not going to stop using fossil fuels by forcing alternatives that people do not want.
Ummm, let's revisit that statement in 10 years. BTW just as with the MAGA crowd that thinks they're always right about everything in the political arena, I don't think that there are enough people that don't want it, if it's able to be fully developed to operate as smoothly as our ICE vehicles today. You may just want to check yourself on just how many people, other of course than yourself, really wouldn't want it under those conditions.

BTW, I just went over and pulled up some stats. Right now, with the infrastructure as limited as it is, 23% of people say they would consider an EV for their next, or a companion vehicle.

God bless,
Ted
 
Most materials used in battery production are recyclable. But again, all those issues will have to be worked out. Just like the pioneers in automobile travel wondered how they were going to find gas if they went out of town.

So you haven't worked out a solution yet? But plan on banning ICE?

Since your not implying that we stick with fossil fuels, what better alternative do you have that can be put on the table right now to move us to next generation fuel? Right now, electric current seems to be the best option and what we need to work on are:
1. How do we fuel millions of cars with electrical current?
2. How can we quickly refuel/replace depleted batteries?

Again something that doesn't yet have a solution.

Right now, the only other real fuel alternatives that I've seen are using waste kitchen oil or seaweed or hydrogen. Certainly some worthy ideas there, but they aren't anywhere near as being complete and in the market. There are a few fleets using hydrogen, but we have the same problem with hydrogen as with electricity, in that there is no gridwork to get the product in the vehicle. However, even in that, electrical current is far ahead.

Where are you going to get the electricity from? Not everyone has a charging outlet where they park. We already have gas stations that provide E85. They can be retrofitted to use hydrogen.

Look the people of Wyoming are, I'm sure a good and proud people. Yea them!!!! You think the state with practically the smallest population is going to make a big difference in where this is going? Fat chance! And really, just how stupid is it to put out a law just because your nose is out of joint with other states that are working towards the new alternative fuel sourcing for our cars? Sounds like an unwell thought out law, but hey, we'll see. If I'm alive 10 years from now, it'll be interesting to see if that law is still on the books, if it even makes it now.

With the above mentioned electric vehicles are not even ready so if banning EVs is an unwell thought out law the same is for states trying to ban ICE.

Yeah!! Just like pushing gasoline vehicles when people are struggling to pay for basic necessities is just as bad an idea. Really??? That's one of your reasons that we shouldn't develop the electric vehicle technology. I'm surprised you let Apple live. Pushing $1,400 phones when people are struggling just to live! The chutzpah of such people!!!

Who said anything about forcing gasoline vehicles? People rely on gasoline vehicles to make a living.

Ummm, let's revisit that statement in 10 years. BTW just as with the MAGA crowd that thinks they're always right about everything in the political arena, I don't think that there are enough people that don't want it, if it's able to be fully developed to operate as smoothly as our ICE vehicles today. You may just want to check yourself on just how many people, other of course than yourself, really wouldn't want it under those conditions.

No, because you have to buy an electric vehicle due to the fact you want to phase out gas vehicles especially when many people do not have the capability of charging at home.

BTW, I just went over and pulled up some stats. Right now, with the infrastructure as limited as it is, 23% of people say they would consider an EV for their next, or a companion vehicle.

So you suggest forcing the 77% on electric vehicles? Because from your tone here it's the fact that battery electric and electricity is the "only solution". No other solution exists. Ban new gas vehicles by 2035 and ban oil from 2040-2050. Rather than taking a realistic approach seeing as around 5 or 5% are actually buying EVs it certainly sounds like it's being forced.

It isn't at all what I want it's the fact that the majority isn't interested in EVs, even the Toyota CEO knows the silent majority doesn't want EVs. As I said Hydrogen and synthetic fuels are options. The one track mind that everyone will go to electric vehicles is extremely foolish. I highly suggest you open your eyes to see that this one track mind approach isn't going to work. Giving more options allow a faster reduction in fossil fuel usage but forcing EVs will not get you anywhere.

And also I find the "MAGA" comment ridiculous and sad. That's just another left excuse why they have to force their lifestyle onto everyone else. Much like electric vehicles.
 
Hi MayGodHeal
So you haven't worked out a solution yet? But plan on banning ICE?
Who me? I'm sticking with my hybrid for the foreseeable future. Gets good mileage and fills up like any other car. Of course, I'm smart enough to know that something that isn't going to take effect for another 12 years can be extended, canceled, changed, but it gets things going in the direction we seem to want to go as a means of fueling our transportation needs.

So, I'm not particularly worried that they don't have all the kinks worked out yet. They either will by 2035 or they'll extend the deadline to stop selling ICE cars. And it likely won't even be up to the states. Manufacturers are jumping all over the new technology. Ford has cut its ICE production waaay back. I read recently that there are over 450 models of EVs in production right now. The states are just preparing for what auto manufacturers will bring as the new reality of personal transportation fuel.
Who said anything about forcing gasoline vehicles? People rely on gasoline vehicles to make a living.
Apparently the point missed its mark.
No, because you have to buy an electric vehicle due to the fact you want to phase out gas vehicles especially when many people do not have the capability of charging at home.
Again I repeat. The jump off for there not being any ICE vehicles is yet 12 years away. And anyone, who 12 years from now hasn't been able to figure out how to charge an EV can always keep their ICE vehicle. Just because they're talking about not selling them in 12 years, doesn't mean the ones that are on the road at that time will just disappear. All the poor people who can't afford a car, but still have one, can keep their ICE car. Eventually they'll find it hard to buy refined gasoline, but I'm sure that won't be for at least another 5 years. It takes years for technology to be fully integrated among 330 million people.

Oh, and BTW, I just read that the joke that was being pushed in Wyoming has been pretty much admitted to as just being a ploy and the bill never made it out of committee. Like I said, stupid reason to bring up such a bill.

God bless,
Ted
 
miamited you're looking too far into what these people are doing. Auto execs are bullish on mass EV adoption and it's likely that in 12 years we'll still be primarily on gas vehicles. Every automaker has reduced ICE because gas or electric people are not able to afford new vehicles at the moment.

Getting hopes up on an EV push based on lies and deception isn't going to make it happen. Already you have electric vehicles sitting on dealers lots unsold. In 2021 over 50% of EV owners went back to gas vehicles. If there was ever a time that this EV push is foolish, it's now. It's not to say they won't continue to make them but they're gaining irrelevance. Sales were higher this year due to fleet sales.

I got not one but 2 warranty paper mail on a 2021 Chevy Bolt I don't even have. Which translates into dealers are desperately trying to sell them off. We may see in 12 years but seriously, don't get your hopes up. And this is pushed by the government so it's already a failure waiting to happen. Like I said this will hurt everyday people who need a gas vehicle to get around. Gas being unavailable, due to government's anti oil mantra.

The gas vehicle ban in California and other states/countries is a death knell for the economy. Just this January California lost 77,000 truck drivers due to their CARB standards on diesel trucks that require to be 2010 or newer. Electric vehicles are being pushed too fast and won't end well. That's what's really happening and as a result people are less likely to get one.
 
Toyota CEO is also concerned about the EV only future. It's not only the auto industry thats concerned but many new car buyers as well. Again the one track mind towards EVs especially with the major automakers will not end well. Toyota is also the only major auto manufacturer trying to offer additional alternatives.

 
HI MayGodHeal
you're looking too far into what these people are doing.
Please explain to me what that is supposed to be saying to me. That I 'look too far into what these people are doing'.
it's likely that in 12 years we'll still be primarily on gas vehicles.
That may be true. I'm not able to see the future that clearly, but yes, it will certainly be awhile yet before the majority of personal vehicles on the roadways of America will be predominantly EV's. However, I'm not willing to make any sure prognostication as to the mix in 12 years. If, as seems to be happening, auto manufacturers produce more EV's, then the mix will change. 12 years is a long time. But yes, I don't think anyone is claiming that this 12 year mark will see the end of ICE vehicles on the road. I know I'm certainly not. I drive a vehicle generally 8-10 years so it could likely be 2040-2045 before I get off of refined petroleum as my source of transportation fuel.
Getting hopes up on an EV push based on lies and deception isn't going to make it happen.
The 'lies and deception' being what? What are we being lied to about? How are we being deceived?
Already you have electric vehicles sitting on dealers lots unsold.
Yes and I drive by most dealerships and see quite a few ICE's unsold also.
In 2021 over 50% of EV owners went back to gas vehicles
That's also true. In fact, my sister in California was one of them. She bought an EV and lives on a rural property with horses and some other animals and found out that if rats eat any of her wiring, the warranty was void. Then she also had problems with tires wearing out because she wasn't aware that ev's generally use specially made tires. So she worked out a deal with the dealer where he took the vehicle back.

However, the problems that she had will get worked out and while I agree with the premise of your statement, according to CNET.com from 2015-2021 only about 18% went back. So again, your percentage may be just a bit fluffed to make the argument sound better. Source?
Like I said this will hurt everyday people who need a gas vehicle to get around. Gas being unavailable, due to government's anti oil mantra.
Uhhh, not to put to fine a point on it, but when will the government make gas 'unavailable'? Do you know what year the government is going to stop allowing businesses to sell gasoline and other ICE fuel products? I don't think that anyone yet has made any prediction as to when the country expects to not have any ICE vehicles for which gas will need to be sold. If you've got something on this, I'd be happy to look it over.
Electric vehicles are being pushed too fast and won't end well. That's what's really happening and as a result people are less likely to get one.
Well, all I can say is that I'm willing to now wait and see if your prognostication turns out to be accurate.

God bless,
Ted
 
miamited except Government is intervening by banning ICE


California being one of them. Most people are not going to "improvements in EVs". The premise that these people say "stop buying ICE because it's not worth it", which is explained here,

“I have a problem with somebody saying, ‘Don’t buy any more petroleum vehicles,'” Anderson said to the Washington Post."


"the ban was a “symbolic resolution” meant to spark more discussion on changing vehicles from gas-powered to electric-powered. He said that there is no “coherent” plan to transition vehicles to a different power source."

This is the lies and deception part saying "we have enough power for the grid" when California doesnt even have the power necessary to charge EVs today and they have to limit charging.

It's not going to change much in 10 years they couldn't do for decades. Battery electric vehicles have way too many problems to be a replacement to gasoline. Its an "alternative" to gasoline, not a replacement. This is the entire premise of the post here.
 
Hi MayGodHeal
except Government is intervening by banning ICE
I'm sorry, was there a question about the government intervening or not?
California being one of them. Most people are not going to "improvements in EVs". The premise that these people say "stop buying ICE because it's not worth it", which is explained here,
I honestly have no idea what that sentence is saying to the subject. Yes, California has set a date when they expect to not allow the sale of ICE vehicles. Now, about 2030, we can revisit this issue and see how it's coming along. Today, whatever prognostication you could possibly make is about as good as painting the bullseye on the barn after you've made the shot. Worthless.
“I have a problem with somebody saying, ‘Don’t buy any more petroleum vehicles,'” Anderson said to the Washington Post."
Right! And so far as I've heard, nobody has said that yet. There is a date out there in the far future where someone may not allow ICE vehicles to be sold. But I don't think there is any restriction on buying someone's vehicle out of state or used, even after the 2035 deadline. However, I haven't actually read the actual bill.
It's not going to change much in 10 years they couldn't do for decades.
Yes, and there was a time that some swore we'd all die if we ever traveled 50 mph. Oh, you're obviously not a true American patriot. You just don't even begin to comprehend the things we can do as a nation, if we set our mind to it. We built the first transcontinental roadway system in the world over a simply huge landmass. We can now bore for tunnels under skyscrapers without breaking a sweat. They have a machine about the size of a two lane roadway that just cuts right through the rock and misses all the pilings that support the skyscrapers. It's a pretty magnificent thing to watch.

You see, the nice thing about using electrical current, is that we won't ever run out of electricity, even if we make the more that we need to move everything over to that grid. Even after the last drop of oil has been raised up out of the earth, we will have rivers and streams and nuclear and wind and solar and about a dozen other ways to produce electrical current. How we produce it might change, but we will never run out of electrical power. We won't ever have to worry that we're getting our oil and petroleum products from overseas. But yes, it's going to require massive amounts of technology and manpower to get it done. I'm all for let's look at it in 5 years.

God bless,
Ted
 
miamited so a lot of what ifs but again if EVs are not ready there shouldn't be any bans. Failing to see that people switched back to gas and will continue to use gas. Even if automakers sell only EVs they're not going to sell many.

This is a "let's force this to see what happens". California may never back out on their ICE bans, they haven't with the trucking mandates.

In no way shape or form was gas vehicles forced in the 1900s. People could have stuck with horses but they didn't. It also took 30 to 40 years before the Model T came out. We are not in the same situation. Out of 100 people I know and have talked to have all stated they wanted to stick with ICE, but is open to hydrogen. They don't want EVs.

I've been saying all along that this EV push is unwanted and it's not going to matter if they get better, there is a high chance that they're not going to replace the ICE. How do you expect people to buy unwanted vehicles? Remember 2008, a lot of vehicles were relocated to open land because people were not buying them. The same is already happening with EVs, sitting on dealers lots and the dealers are having to move them to open lots.

5% of EV sales isn't going to cut it. And more people are finding out they are not working and have problems with them are more than likely will switch back to ICE making EVs look more like a fantasy.

Largely this is a push from the left and they have a history of pushing things that Americans wont use, like the metric system and CFL bulbs was a disaster. People went to LEDs instead. And I don't see the tide changing to favor EVs. Just false hopes.
 
Sighhhh
shouldn't be any bans.
And as yet there are not. Should we not prepare for the future? Do you really know in your heart that when 2032 gets here and we're still where we are, that California lawmakers won't stay the start date? Really?? Just because a law comes on the books that doesn't take effect for 12 years now doesn't change anything in the here and now except that people know where we're headed and can plan for it. Petroleum fuel will not last forever. Surely we can make other fuels, but right now nobody seems to be able to do that on any workable basis. Electric has a lot of grid already in place. Yes, there are places that will need upgraded to carry heavier loads. We will likely see more transfer stations built. Homes will likely start coming with a 240v receptacle in the garage already wired up.

Electric is coming! There's really no way around that. One day we will run out of crude oil to make gasoline, although we are developing new ways to get crude, but they are terribly expensive and much more earth damaging than just simple pipe wells.

There are a number of companies working on how we can refuel/replace spent battery packs while on the road in a reasonable amount of time to get the next 400 miles or so. When we get there, my gas guzzler will probably go, when it needs replacing. I like electric. They are quiet and smooth and some of the models today are pretty ultra comfortable. My only hesitation is the refueling time. Other than that I would have already wired up a fast charge port in my carport and be ridin' the charge!

Anyway, not to belabor the issue, I think electric has a pretty strong foot in the door for replacement transportation fuel. We will no longer hear anyone screaming about all the oil we buy from OPEC+ nations. If we could get just the personal automobiles off the petroleum teet, we could be oil independent tomorrow!

Oh, and while we're at the silly laws dept. (referencing Wyoming) California sure made a mistake closing down all their nuclear capabilities. That's actually the cleanest, safest power source yet for the planet to produce electricity. Especially in places where there aren't the natural resources for hydro production. Like the Hoover Dam produces a lot of current. But we don't all live by huge water reservoirs. Of course that's going to change soon if the reservoir doesn't fill up. But we really should be expanding our nuclear energy program along with our EV program.

God bless,
Ted
 
miamited who says California will back off the ban if EVs are still ready.. California hasn't made any sensible laws and banning the sale of new ICE cars on any date is anti free market.

If EVs were to sell widely on the free market you wouldn't need any ICE bans.

Even if they did manage to fix their 100 different problems or so you still need people to BUY them. At this point in time 70% do not want them. It is possible that could change.. however that can take decades. Its unlikely by 2035 that will drastically change. And therefore this makes EVs an alternative to gasoline. When 25% of vehicles are EVs that alternative may be closer to replacing gas vehicles, that is a strong IF though. EVs currently are not practical for everyone.

At this point less than 5% of Americans are using EVs. It took 10 years to get to that point. Next 5 years won't change and potentially be the deciding factor in which direction EVs go to.

Another thing to note Tesla sales dropped. Meaning somepeople (most likely the left) who were buying Teslas went and bought EVs from other manufacturers.

With all this in mind bans are just a way to force vehicles onto the market without enough buyers and considering the same people who want to force this technology are the ones buying new ones every year, creating a problem with unsold used EVs.
 
The sarcasm is getting a bit out of hand. I highly suggest softening the tone of these posts to a more civil attitude lest I start banning some from posting. Let's act like the Christians we claim to be, please.
 
WIP I apologize if I got out of hand any.

miamited we're talking in circles, it's great you like EVs. I'm just speaking for those that do not want EVs, but too afraid to admit it and we want the freedom to continue buying gas vehicles. If it's 70% or 40% that doesn't want to buy them then they need the option to buy gas vehicles and the fuel to power them.
 
WIP I apologize if I got out of hand any.

miamited we're talking in circles, it's great you like EVs. I'm just speaking for those that do not want EVs, but too afraid to admit it and we want the freedom to continue buying gas vehicles. If it's 70% or 40% that doesn't want to buy them then they need the option to buy gas vehicles and the fuel to power them.
Hi MayGodHeal

Yes and that's fine. It's what these forums are for. Everyone to express their understanding and ideas. However, as for your complaint that 'we want the freedom to continue buying gas vehicle'. So far there is no restriction on buying gas vehicles, so you're arguing a future event that you really have no idea whether or not will ever unfold as either you or I think it will.

I do like the EV concept, but as I've stated over and over, personally I'm not ready to adopt it until they fix the refueling time problem. So, don't go there that I'm somehow so enamored by EV's that I can't see the forest for the trees. I just believe that, right now in time upon the earth, it is the most widely accepted and working replacement for us for transportation fuel. Yes, it's got bugs to work out and there are a lot of great minds working out those problems.

So far, some governing jurisdictions have made steps to show that we are going to invest in this technology. Certainly for those who are always screaming or otherwise complaining about all the oil we import, it should be a godsend. But all of these laws and regulations, so far, are based on projections quite a bit down the road and just because there is a bill today that says thus is going to happen dozens of years from now, doesn't mean that next week these things are going to be happening.

I'm for giving it time and seeing where it goes. Hydrogen fuel cells is promising, but there's a lot of infrastructure work to make that acceptable nationwide. Right now I wouldn't have a clue where to even go buy a refill of hydrogen or how to produce it from some process at home.

I also don't agree that we're talking in circles. No, what we are is at loggerheads over what, in each of our own understandings, is going on and expected to be going on in transportation fueling in the future for our vehicles.

God bless,
Ted
 
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