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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Baptism In The Holy Spirit
- Thread starter herald
- Start date
cyberjosh
Member
herald said:
Herald, I believe the reference in Scripture to being Baptized in the Holy Spirit is equivalent to the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit which brings about salvation, therefore all Christians have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Please see my post here where I linked viewers to a paper I have written about this. I am aware that the Pentecostal/Charismatic understanding of the Baptism of the Spirit, for them, refers to a secondary experience - but I believe they are mistaken in identifying it with the Baptism of the Spirit. Perhaps what you are referring to is the filling of the Holy Spirit which can happen repetitively (Acts illustrates this by frequently telling us that the disciples were "filled with the Holy Spirit"), and should happen, after one is saved. The power to work miracles in Jesus' name is evidence of the filling of the Spirit, but I believe the "Baptism of the Spirit" to refer more to the one-time occurrence of being regenerated and therefore being baptized into the Body by the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13).
Just something to consider. I would welcome any commentary on the paper I wrote if you wish to talk about it.
God Bless,
~Josh
cyberjosh
Member
toddm said:
Thanks, I hope you find it edifying. I'll try to see if I can't upload the paper in Microsoft Word format if someone would like to obtain it to distribute or if they find it easier than reading from a webpage.
P.S. I also edited my last post to include a reference to the Pentecostal understanding of the Baptism of the Spirit. A sincere conversation with a Pentecostal friend of mine is what eventually spurred me to write that paper after being so inwardly disturbed and unsettled the prospect of not being Baptized in the Spirit that I did some major soul searching and God miraculously orchestrated events to where I attended a church with a guest speaker (John Bevere) who spoke specifically how grace empowers the believer to live the Christian life, and the Holy Spirit gives us that power (Greek: dunamis), which Jesus promised would be given to the disciples from "on high". It was then that I really first felt empowered and filled with the Spirit to live the Christian life in the power of the Spirit - but we have been equipped with this capability all along, we just need to walk in the Spirit and be filled. I cover that somewhat in that paper.
God Bless,
~Josh
It isn't what you believe - it is the Scripture. IT ISN'T ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE, it is the Word of God. When we replace the Scripture with our traditions, we are siding with Satan, who said, "Yea, hath God said...?" Gen 3:1. When you replace the Scripture, you are unlawful. And the Lord does not take well with those who are unlawful. God's Word is His law.
Do you believe in the Scripture? You are wrong...the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a secondary event. First, we are born again, then, we are baptized in the Holy Spirit. Do you speak in other tongues? Do you pray in other tongues? If not, you are not baptized in the Holy Spirit.
2 Tim 3:16 reads in the Greek, "Every Scripture is God breathed..."
If the Lord wants us to baptized in the Holy Spirit, why not? It is about obedience to God's Word.
Do you believe in the Scripture? You are wrong...the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a secondary event. First, we are born again, then, we are baptized in the Holy Spirit. Do you speak in other tongues? Do you pray in other tongues? If not, you are not baptized in the Holy Spirit.
2 Tim 3:16 reads in the Greek, "Every Scripture is God breathed..."
If the Lord wants us to baptized in the Holy Spirit, why not? It is about obedience to God's Word.
Well, obviously, you refuse to engage in conversation or even consider other views. I will say that I used to believe what you believe, but upon further investigation of what Scripture actually teaches I found that there's no warrant for this secondary event that must always be evidenced by speaking in tongues. If that helps you in your spiritual walk then that's fine, but please don't tell me that I don't have the Holy Spirit or haven't been baptized by the Holy Spirit just because I don't speak in tongues. I know that what I do would be IMPOSSIBLE without the outpouring of God's Spirit in my life each day.herald said:
Well, you should read Acts 2. The disciples were, already born again, this was a secondary event. If you do not want to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, you won't be. I am in a lot of forums, I just post what I believe the Lord wants me to post. If you don't want the baptism, you won't receive it.
Our Lord Jesus has given us a guiding light in the following Scripture.
Luke 10:18-20
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. KJV
Heb 12:22-25
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: KJV
Joe
Luke 10:18-20
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. KJV
Heb 12:22-25
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: KJV
Joe
cyberjosh
Member
herald said:
If you would have read my paper you would see I use the Scripture extensively to support my view, because it is in line with Scripture. And it is originally from the soul searching I did after being told I had not been Baptized in the Spirit (by a close friend) that led me to write that paper and to realize the power that the Spirit has given me to live the Christian life. Because if I love the Lord as much as I do why would I not do everything possible to obtain the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? That is the question I asked myself, and which spurred my soul-searching and the result was God enlightening me to His power already at work within me, through grace. So Sir, respectfully, I know that I have been baptized in the Spirit regardless of what you may think. I do not speak in tongues, but neither is that a gift for everyone. I do however believe God has given me the gift of teaching. I believe my heart is where it needs to be with God (though as Paul said, I do not judge myself), though I am ever seeking to press forward and obtain more, but I have personally been convinced by the Spirit of His filling in me.
P.S. You are also very correct about it being about obedience to God's Word. Amen.
God Bless,
~Josh
I also have been gifted w/ the gift of teaching and preaching, and I also believe w/ music (not just natural talent).I won't peddle the Word of God...If you don't want to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, you won't be, but, He wants us all to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, according to Acts 2. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are these: healing, casting out demons. If you do not want to be part of this, you won't be. But, you will miss out on the gifts. If you do not embrace the entire Word of God, you will miss out on His blessings. He wants us to reach the world, with His gifts.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are healing the sick, and casting out demons and speaking and praying with new tongues.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are healing the sick, and casting out demons and speaking and praying with new tongues.
Those aren't the only gifts of the Spirit. According to Romans 12, Ephesians 4, and 1 Corinthians 12...there is teaching, giving, hospitality, faith, evangelism, preaching, encouragement, and a bunch more. You're the one limiting the Holy Spirit here. Let me ask you, how could someone possibly preach the Gospel effectively if the Holy Spirit were not indeed manifesting Himself through the preacher?? Can we look at other Scripture outside Acts 2, since you've failed to show that this is prescriptive? What about 1 Cor. 12:13? We're all baptized into ONE body by ONE Spirit. Upon conversion, the Holy Spirit has multiple, subsequent "fillings" in some one's life - whether that be evangelism, healing, encouragement, boldness, etc. By saying that His filling is limited to healing and casting out demons is unbiblical.herald said:
I'm trying to be gracious here, but your understanding of the Holy Spirit's work in one's life is lacking significantly. Do you realize that by saying I'm not baptized by the Spirit, that I'm basically unsaved? Can you go through any Scripture and find where Paul or any other apostle actually teaches that you must have some secondary baptism of the Holy Spirit and you MUST speak in tongues. I mean teach it, not merely describe an event. Just because an event is described does not make it prescribed. If you were to apply this kind of hermeneutics to the rest of Scripture, the you could justify incest and polygamy and all sorts of other ungodly things. My point is, how do you know it's prescriptive?? Please show me in Scripture. Acts 2 never says that is.
Hi Cybershark. God bless you! You mentioned that all believers have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Well as I read the posts here I would think that this statement is not altogether accurate. The Born Again experience is where we receive the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit to come and live inside of us. However, the Bible says that Jesus Himself is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit. If the disciples had received it all when Jesus "breathed on them and said receive ye the Holy Ghost" then He never would have told them to tarry in Jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high..
The infilling of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.. Yes a believer can receive several infillings along the way... But the initial experience is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or the infilling of the H.S. Subsequently, the evidence is the "speaking in other tongues" which is not dependant upon infillings that are received after the initial Baptism of the H.G. However, I have seen over the years, that some Chrisians never develop the tongues that were given to them by the H.S. which may give the impression that they have lost the ability to "pray in the spirit". Also the infilling of the H.S. is like Jesus said "and ye shall be WITNESSES unto me". So this is what the purpose of the infilling is. To be a powerful witness and be able to lift up the name of Jesus above our own flesh. The apostles did miracles, cast out demons, heal the sick and preached.. BEFORE the upper room experience of being infilled with the H.S. Why? Because they did it in the name of Jesus!
The infilling of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.. Yes a believer can receive several infillings along the way... But the initial experience is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or the infilling of the H.S. Subsequently, the evidence is the "speaking in other tongues" which is not dependant upon infillings that are received after the initial Baptism of the H.G. However, I have seen over the years, that some Chrisians never develop the tongues that were given to them by the H.S. which may give the impression that they have lost the ability to "pray in the spirit". Also the infilling of the H.S. is like Jesus said "and ye shall be WITNESSES unto me". So this is what the purpose of the infilling is. To be a powerful witness and be able to lift up the name of Jesus above our own flesh. The apostles did miracles, cast out demons, heal the sick and preached.. BEFORE the upper room experience of being infilled with the H.S. Why? Because they did it in the name of Jesus!
cyberjosh
Member
Hi ManofGod,
I can possibly discuss this more with you in the 1-on-1 section I PM'd you about, but you are correct that Jesus breathed on them to receive the Holy Spirit but then later filled them at Pentecost. At this early stage in the Church the Spirit's power was revealed piece meal, most probably for the benefit of the whole church (so that many could be witness), so that is why we see some of the gifts being bestowed after water baptism or confession of faith (although we also see exact opposite examples such as with Cornelius & the Gentiles who manifested it immediately upon confession). But we would be amiss to think that if one of the Apostles had died (save the obvious example of Judas who rejected his faith) before Pentecost that they would have gone to hell, and even if they had died during Jesus' ministry they would still be counted as having faith in Christ because they walked with him: as Jesus said, "You are those who have stood by Me in My trials" (Luke 22:28). Jesus also gave them power by the Spirit to heal & cast out demons prior to then, so it wasn't the first time they had been filled with the Spirit (even Judas who - like King Saul - may have been filled to no effect).
So I wholely believe that the Apostles' salvation was confirmed the moment Christ breathed on them, being Baptized in the Spirit (for the Spirit as Jesus made clear in the Gospel of John was the source of eternal life), but previously would still (like John the Baptist) have their faith counted as righteousness before the Spirit was given (which was nonetheless imminently anticipated in John 7:39). Often in Acts the immediate filling and outward manifestation of the Spirit took place, but we can be sure that even when Jesus breathed on them prior to Pentecost that it was not without event - if at the least to fundamentally stir their hearts. We know of the disciples passion for Jesus even when they thought he was dead when they spoke of their mysterious companion on the road to Emmaus, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?" (Luke 24:32). So I believe that they indeed had salvation by faith in Christ even prior to Pentecost, but that the sign of the Spirit promised in John 7:39 innagurated the new sign of salvation in the New Covenant - and the disciples received that when Jesus breathed on them. I believe that the Baptism of the Spirit brings about regeneration and salvation by the Spirit.
You may refer to my paper and my post in the 1-on-1 section for more on this if you prefer.
God Bless,
~Josh
I can possibly discuss this more with you in the 1-on-1 section I PM'd you about, but you are correct that Jesus breathed on them to receive the Holy Spirit but then later filled them at Pentecost. At this early stage in the Church the Spirit's power was revealed piece meal, most probably for the benefit of the whole church (so that many could be witness), so that is why we see some of the gifts being bestowed after water baptism or confession of faith (although we also see exact opposite examples such as with Cornelius & the Gentiles who manifested it immediately upon confession). But we would be amiss to think that if one of the Apostles had died (save the obvious example of Judas who rejected his faith) before Pentecost that they would have gone to hell, and even if they had died during Jesus' ministry they would still be counted as having faith in Christ because they walked with him: as Jesus said, "You are those who have stood by Me in My trials" (Luke 22:28). Jesus also gave them power by the Spirit to heal & cast out demons prior to then, so it wasn't the first time they had been filled with the Spirit (even Judas who - like King Saul - may have been filled to no effect).
So I wholely believe that the Apostles' salvation was confirmed the moment Christ breathed on them, being Baptized in the Spirit (for the Spirit as Jesus made clear in the Gospel of John was the source of eternal life), but previously would still (like John the Baptist) have their faith counted as righteousness before the Spirit was given (which was nonetheless imminently anticipated in John 7:39). Often in Acts the immediate filling and outward manifestation of the Spirit took place, but we can be sure that even when Jesus breathed on them prior to Pentecost that it was not without event - if at the least to fundamentally stir their hearts. We know of the disciples passion for Jesus even when they thought he was dead when they spoke of their mysterious companion on the road to Emmaus, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?" (Luke 24:32). So I believe that they indeed had salvation by faith in Christ even prior to Pentecost, but that the sign of the Spirit promised in John 7:39 innagurated the new sign of salvation in the New Covenant - and the disciples received that when Jesus breathed on them. I believe that the Baptism of the Spirit brings about regeneration and salvation by the Spirit.
You may refer to my paper and my post in the 1-on-1 section for more on this if you prefer.
God Bless,
~Josh
Can you show me where the inauguration of the Holy Spirit as described in Acts 2 is supposed to be prescriptive for every believer? I believe that the Apostles and the other 120 followers were the only Christians to have ever existed w/o the new covenant outpouring of the Holy Spirit for that brief period of time. They were in a transitional period of sorts - the transition from new to old covenant. Prior to Pentecost, the new covenant promise was MOSTLY fulfilled in Jesus but Ezekiel 36:25-27 of the promised Spirit within them had not yet come. The 120 believers & the Gentile believers were the only ones that experienced this transitional state because every believer now receives the indwelling/baptism of the Holy Spirit automatically at (or prior to, in my view) conversion.ManofGod said:Hi Cybershark. God bless you! You mentioned that all believers have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Well as I read the posts here I would think that this statement is not altogether accurate. The Born Again experience is where we receive the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit to come and live inside of us. However, the Bible says that Jesus Himself is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit. If the disciples had received it all when Jesus "breathed on them and said receive ye the Holy Ghost" then He never would have told them to tarry in Jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high..
The infilling of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.. Yes a believer can receive several infillings along the way... But the initial experience is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or the infilling of the H.S. Subsequently, the evidence is the "speaking in other tongues" which is not dependant upon infillings that are received after the initial Baptism of the H.G. However, I have seen over the years, that some Chrisians never develop the tongues that were given to them by the H.S. which may give the impression that they have lost the ability to "pray in the spirit". Also the infilling of the H.S. is like Jesus said "and ye shall be WITNESSES unto me". So this is what the purpose of the infilling is. To be a powerful witness and be able to lift up the name of Jesus above our own flesh. The apostles did miracles, cast out demons, heal the sick and preached.. BEFORE the upper room experience of being infilled with the H.S. Why? Because they did it in the name of Jesus!