The Baptism In The Holy Spirit

[ManofGod]

Hi Cybershark. God bless you! You mentioned that all believers have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Well as I read the posts here I would think that this statement is not altogether accurate. The Born Again experience is where we receive the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit to come and live inside of us. However, the Bible says that Jesus Himself is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit. If the disciples had received it all when Jesus "breathed on them and said receive ye the Holy Ghost" then He never would have told them to tarry in Jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high..
The infilling of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.. Yes a believer can receive several infillings along the way... But the initial experience is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or the infilling of the H.S. Subsequently, the evidence is the "speaking in other tongues" which is not dependant upon infillings that are received after the initial Baptism of the H.G. However, I have seen over the years, that some Chrisians never develop the tongues that were given to them by the H.S. which may give the impression that they have lost the ability to "pray in the spirit". Also the infilling of the H.S. is like Jesus said "and ye shall be WITNESSES unto me". So this is what the purpose of the infilling is. To be a powerful witness and be able to lift up the name of Jesus above our own flesh. The apostles did miracles, cast out demons, heal the sick and preached.. BEFORE the upper room experience of being infilled with the H.S. Why? Because they did it in the name of Jesus!

Can you show me where the inauguration of the Holy Spirit as described in Acts 2 is supposed to be prescriptive for every believer? I believe that the Apostles and the other 120 followers were the only Christians to have ever existed w/o the new covenant outpouring of the Holy Spirit for that brief period of time. They were in a transitional period of sorts - the transition from new to old covenant. Prior to Pentecost, the new covenant promise was MOSTLY fulfilled in Jesus but Ezekiel 36:25-27 of the promised Spirit within them had not yet come. The 120 believers & the Gentile believers were the only ones that experienced this transitional state because every believer now receives the indwelling/baptism of the Holy Spirit automatically at (or prior to, in my view) conversion.

Hello Todd, we have to be careful what we pick and chose in the Bible. Jesus would not give the Baptism to the 120 and not give it to us. If He did then He would be a respector of persons. Moreover, if the Baptism was limited for the 120 then we must consider that salvation would be too. The Baptism of the H.S. is for believers not for unbelievers because they don't even know that He exists. Salvation is for unbelievers. You see, Jesus told the disciples "it is expedient for you that I go away,, because I will send the comforter who is the H.G." What we see in the book of Acts chapter 2 is the birth of the New Testament church when the H.G. came in tongues of fire.. After this happened the 120 went out and turned the world upside down for Christ. We don't get the Baptism automatically. The only thing free in the Bible (so to speak) is grace and even that is received by faith. Yes, Jesus paid the price for all of it.. But we appropriate the Word of God in our lives. Todd, I have been a Christian for over 23 years and an Associate Pastor for 12 of those years and I have seen with my own eyes that some receive the Baptism through the laying on of hands, some receive just by asking in there prayer lives, some were just praying normally and the H.G. came. We can't put Jesus in a box because He is the Baptizer in the H.G. Jesus never baptized with water.. But He baptizes with Fire.. and that fire is the H.G. If the disciples had of received it all when they walked with Jesus.. He never would have told them to tarry in Jerusalem.. We can do EVERYTHING that the disciples did in the Word.. They are no better than us! We are the New Testament Church..

 

[toddm]

Hello Todd, we have to be careful what we pick and chose in the Bible. Jesus would not give the Baptism to the 120 and not give it to us. If He did then He would be a respector of persons. Moreover, if the Baptism was limited for the 120 then we must consider that salvation would be too. The Baptism of the H.S. is for believers not for unbelievers because they don't even know that He exists. Salvation is for unbelievers. You see, Jesus told the disciples "it is expedient for you that I go away,, because I will send the comforter who is the H.G." What we see in the book of Acts chapter 2 is the birth of the New Testament church when the H.G. came in tongues of fire.. After this happened the 120 went out and turned the world upside down for Christ. We don't get the Baptism automatically. The only thing free in the Bible (so to speak) is grace and even that is received by faith. Yes, Jesus paid the price for all of it.. But we appropriate the Word of God in our lives. Todd, I have been a Christian for over 23 years and an Associate Pastor for 12 of those years and I have seen with my own eyes that some receive the Baptism through the laying on of hands, some receive just by asking in there prayer lives, some were just praying normally and the H.G. came. We can't put Jesus in a box because He is the Baptizer in the H.G. Jesus never baptized with water.. But He baptizes with Fire.. and that fire is the H.G. If the disciples had of received it all when they walked with Jesus.. He never would have told them to tarry in Jerusalem.. We can do EVERYTHING that the disciples did in the Word.. They are no better than us! We are the New Testament Church..

Always good to "meet" another brother in the trenches of ministry. Message boards get frustrating because of the lack of clarity one is trying to communicate. I was not saying that Jesus ONLY gave the Holy Spirit to the NT church. What I'm saying is the Acts 2 outpouring of the Spirit was his grand entrance into the NT church. The 120 were there before Him, and they were the only ones in church history to be in that transitional period. Nowadays, all believers that enter the church can only do so by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit - meaning He's there already and we're the ones now that came in. When He came to the church on Pentecost in Acts 2, He didn't leave. I just find it odd that so much emphasis is put on the subsequent event of baptism in the HS when this talked about very little in Scripture. I came from a background that adhered to "subsequent baptism of the HS". I used to think I spoke in tongues, but then realized that I was only doing it because I was "supposed to". I've seen people have hands laid on them too and begin to speak in tongues - but are they sincere or is what is expected? I don't mean the person speaking is deliberately trying to "fool" anyone, but if it's a conditioned response then the person may think he is.

I still think the gift is for today, but I don't see a "speaking in tongues" as something that is for ALL believers the way most more charismatic churches claim it is. We are baptized INTO the Body of Christ (the Church), the agent that Jesus uses to baptize people into His Body is the Holy Spirit. Upon THAT baptism, unbelievers become believers and when that baptism happens the Spirit gives gifts as He so determines. No where in Scripture do we see the Holy Spirit promising everyone the same gift (ie tongues) and then maybe some other different ones too. What Scripture tells us is that He gives each person gift(s) as He so chooses and so desires. There is no formula or guaranteed gift.

Just out of curiosity, are you w/ an AOG church or Foursquare or what?

 

[ManofGod]

Hello Todd, we have to be careful what we pick and chose in the Bible. Jesus would not give the Baptism to the 120 and not give it to us. If He did then He would be a respector of persons. Moreover, if the Baptism was limited for the 120 then we must consider that salvation would be too. The Baptism of the H.S. is for believers not for unbelievers because they don't even know that He exists. Salvation is for unbelievers. You see, Jesus told the disciples "it is expedient for you that I go away,, because I will send the comforter who is the H.G." What we see in the book of Acts chapter 2 is the birth of the New Testament church when the H.G. came in tongues of fire.. After this happened the 120 went out and turned the world upside down for Christ. We don't get the Baptism automatically. The only thing free in the Bible (so to speak) is grace and even that is received by faith. Yes, Jesus paid the price for all of it.. But we appropriate the Word of God in our lives. Todd, I have been a Christian for over 23 years and an Associate Pastor for 12 of those years and I have seen with my own eyes that some receive the Baptism through the laying on of hands, some receive just by asking in there prayer lives, some were just praying normally and the H.G. came. We can't put Jesus in a box because He is the Baptizer in the H.G. Jesus never baptized with water.. But He baptizes with Fire.. and that fire is the H.G. If the disciples had of received it all when they walked with Jesus.. He never would have told them to tarry in Jerusalem.. We can do EVERYTHING that the disciples did in the Word.. They are no better than us! We are the New Testament Church..

Always good to "meet" another brother in the trenches of ministry. Message boards get frustrating because of the lack of clarity one is trying to communicate. I was not saying that Jesus ONLY gave the Holy Spirit to the NT church. What I'm saying is the Acts 2 outpouring of the Spirit was his grand entrance into the NT church. The 120 were there before Him, and they were the only ones in church history to be in that transitional period. Nowadays, all believers that enter the church can only do so by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit - meaning He's there already and we're the ones now that came in. When He came to the church on Pentecost in Acts 2, He didn't leave. I just find it odd that so much emphasis is put on the subsequent event of baptism in the HS when this talked about very little in Scripture. I came from a background that adhered to "subsequent baptism of the HS". I used to think I spoke in tongues, but then realized that I was only doing it because I was "supposed to". I've seen people have hands laid on them too and begin to speak in tongues - but are they sincere or is what is expected? I don't mean the person speaking is deliberately trying to "fool" anyone, but if it's a conditioned response then the person may think he is.

I still think the gift is for today, but I don't see a "speaking in tongues" as something that is for ALL believers the way most more charismatic churches claim it is. We are baptized INTO the Body of Christ (the Church), the agent that Jesus uses to baptize people into His Body is the Holy Spirit. Upon THAT baptism, unbelievers become believers and when that baptism happens the Spirit gives gifts as He so determines. No where in Scripture do we see the Holy Spirit promising everyone the same gift (ie tongues) and then maybe some other different ones too. What Scripture tells us is that He gives each person gift(s) as He so chooses and so desires. There is no formula or guaranteed gift.

Just out of curiosity, are you w/ an AOG church or Foursquare or what?

Todd nice to meet you also! I am not with AOG or Foursquare, although our church is a full-gospel non-denominational church. I am a former member of the Church of God and I did go to an AOG for almost 1.5 years when I was in the Navy stationed in Key West, Florida. Moreover, I was born and raised as a Catholic, so I have seen a lot of different views... You know Todd, a lot of Christians have allowed the enemy to steal what God has wanted to give them. Yes, the enemy has perverted and imitated the gifts of God in the Body of Christ. But you see the most important gift in the Body of Christ in today's time is Love of course but also "the discerning of spirits". The gifts in the Bible are for whosoever will receive them .. as a matter of fact Paul tells us that we can "covet earnestly the best gifts". Supernatural things are supernaturally discerned. A LOT of Christians discern the Word of God by their intellect and lose the real meaning that the H.G. is trying to convey. I know what you mean by false gifts and such.. I have also seen this. But my baptism in the H.G. was not received in a church.. I was alone with the Lord when the Lord Baptized me in the H. G. The Lord has used me in other gifts also .. but mainly the "discerning of spirits". This ministry is used mostly in the deliverance ministry and this gift also allows one to be able to see which spirit is operating.. (as the Lord allows) i might add.. Remember the Bible says that the Father is not going to give us bad things .. But we must always, in my estimation, test the spirits to see if they be of God.. Cause in the supernatural we have not only the Lord but we have Satan and his coherts as well. God bless you in your work for the Lord !

 

[toddm]

Todd nice to meet you also! I am not with AOG or Foursquare, although our church is a full-gospel non-denominational church. I am a former member of the Church of God and I did go to an AOG for almost 1.5 years when I was in the Navy stationed in Key West, Florida. Moreover, I was born and raised as a Catholic, so I have seen a lot of different views... You know Todd, a lot of Christians have allowed the enemy to steal what God has wanted to give them. Yes, the enemy has perverted and imitated the gifts of God in the Body of Christ. But you see the most important gift in the Body of Christ in today's time is Love of course but also "the discerning of spirits". The gifts in the Bible are for whosoever will receive them .. as a matter of fact Paul tells us that we can "covet earnestly the best gifts". Supernatural things are supernaturally discerned. A LOT of Christians discern the Word of God by their intellect and lose the real meaning that the H.G. is trying to convey. I know what you mean by false gifts and such.. I have also seen this. But my baptism in the H.G. was not received in a church.. I was alone with the Lord when the Lord Baptized me in the H. G. The Lord has used me in other gifts also .. but mainly the "discerning of spirits". This ministry is used mostly in the deliverance ministry and this gift also allows one to be able to see which spirit is operating.. (as the Lord allows) i might add.. Remember the Bible says that the Father is not going to give us bad things .. But we must always, in my estimation, test the spirits to see if they be of God.. Cause in the supernatural we have not only the Lord but we have Satan and his coherts as well. God bless you in your work for the Lord !

Well, my friend. All I know is this - I see the Holy Spirit working through me each day and through the gifts he's given me. If speaking in tongues deepens your walk w/ Christ, then I am all for it. We'll just have to disagree on exactly how the Holy Spirit manifests Himself in our lives. I've debated this topic for a long time, and at the end of the day all we can do is disagree and ask for God's grace and blessing for each other since it's not an essential issue any way. God bless you and your ministry.