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Yes, that is the keyword. I would much rather believe the testimony of hundreds of witnesses against the testimony of one man. That is a huge strike against Islam - following the unsubstantiated claims of one man.TheStudent said:TheStudent wrote:
now we have the Bible. itself not the word of Jesus but was, as chrisitians admit, transmitted from person to person, the same as the collection of Hadith. itslef relied on eye witnesses and their truthfullness.
The keyword there is "eyewitnesses," of which Muhammad has none.
But this is the point you need to prove; you have no evidence whatsoever that is ever was the case. All the evidence goes against this claim.TheStudent said:have you not heard of the volumes of Hadith of the Prophet? we believe that God revealed the Gospel/Good News to jesus, not matthew mark luke or john. It is the words of Jesus that are this Gospel. The REAL Gospel reads EXACTLY like the Quran, a direct dictation from God to Prophet.
There were not 66 writers; there were 36-40. Whether or not there are anonymous writers (there certainly aren't "many") is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the inspiration of Scripture.TheStudent said:who are these 66 writers? why are there so many ANONYMOUS ones? very strange
You want proof from me yet you can give none yourself. The Bible is very internally consistent.TheStudent said:and your proof? were they prophets? no . were the words they wrote their own or that of God? their own.
Common sense certainly says that Jesus is God. Your points of Jesus eating and sleeping are irrelevant since Jesus was God in human flesh.TheStudent said:common sense tells you that Jesus was not God. God does not eat or sleep.jesus did. the evidence is in the bible itself. Jesus preached the Gospel as revealed to him by God. all these 'other' books are not the Gospel. they are additions by OTHER writers, most of which are ANONYMOUS. do you not see? the christianity you follow today is not based on the teachings of christ , but paul.
Keep repeating it because both you and I know that Muslims will use the Hadiths selectively because they contradict eather and the Qur'an. Talk our friend Gary and he'll explain it.TheStudent said:how many times would you like me to repeat it? HADITHS!! look it up!
You are not understanding the point I am making. Here you are differentiating between the words of Jesus and the four gospels. That implies that the gospels do not contain the words of Jesus.TheStudent said:so now, which is the REAL GOOD NEWS? the WORDS of Jesus or these 4 gospels?
Whether or not I know their names is irrelevant to the inspiration or authenticity of the books of the Bible. But most of the names of the writers are known anyway.TheStudent said:you do not even know the NAMES of the people who wrote the books you deem HOLY!! please, does is this still reasonable to you?
Of course. There is Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, etc. Most of the Bible is written by prophets. Of course, if you define a prophet as one who hears God, then they are all prophets.TheStudent said:i asked a very simple question, apart from Davids Psalms, are ANY of the authors of the books of the Bible prophets?
And yet you have provided zero evidence to substantiate that claim. Many Muslims make that claim, yet none has ever provided direct evidence. I suspect it comes from Muslim apologists who tell Muslims what they want to hear even though it is completely false.TheStudent said:yes, and as i said PARTS of the bible have been changed/misinterpreted
It says that you need to take things in context or else you can make it mean whatever you want it to mean. The Bible does not read like the Qur'an and it must be taken in its entirety to get the full meaning of who Jesus is.TheStudent said:and when jesus says 'do not call me good' or 'worship only the father', what does this say?
This is not evidence. These points are irrelevant in determining the authenticity and inspiration of the Bible. You must provide proof coming from the original Greek autographs and compare them with all the known Greek and Latin manuscripts to prove that the Bible is distorted from the originals.TheStudent said:i said, which books of the bible are written by prophets? which books of the bible were written/dictated by Jesus? in the lifetime of Jesus? yet you still believe it all word for word!!
theres only one Islam that is acceptable and that is the Islam that was taught by Muhammed. I dont define myself by anything but 'Muslim'.
my parents are both muslim
being quite a sceptic, i never took anything on face value, but on reading passages which talk of the big bang,atoms and other things which had only been discovered recently, i took islam a lot more seriously.
To me, it made a lot of sense. It is logical and complete.
Now as a family, Islam has the answers that I am looking for in all aspects of my life. It teaches me how to treat my wife and child correctly. It teaches me that I am responsible for the well being of my family. It teaches me that I will be accountable for everything I do with my time on earth. It also teaches me that the best Muslim is one who treats his wife the best. This is one of the values that i always try to practise. Islam has no ifs or buts or maybes. It not only contains the rules for family life, but social, economic, political and spiritual life. From the new born child to the leader of nations, it will tell you directly what the correct method of action and thinking is, all with logical and morally correct reasoning. All based on the belief that there is only One God, from Him we came and to Him we will return.
What do you think Muhammad taught? Which adhadith do you consider authentic?
What do you think of those Muslims who believe that all of the adhadith is man made conjecture?
What do you think of those Muslims who believe that todays qur'an has been corrupted?
What do you think of those Muslims who believe the bible should be used along with the qur'an for study?
i'll have to disagree. this is one of the reasons why i think many people are becoming muslim, it is NATURAL to our SPIRITUAL self, it dosent go against our SPIRITUAL nature. Islam is logical once you start to live it. 'what we expect' is for man to try to satisfy his wants and comforts, that is the natural state we have been made in. it is the overcoming of these basic, animal wants that Islam teaches as the only way to Allah.SACRIFICE!! sadly in christianity, followers are seemingly taught that as long as you believe that jesus is God, then you will be saved NO MATTER what you do in life. this leads on to....I agree to an extent. A religion like Islam is what one would expect from a religion, God weighs your good deeds and bad deeds and rewards and punishes based on that result. Christianity, however, is what people would not expect. I think that this gives Christianity more credibility as coming from God, because it doesn't do things as men would have thought to do it.
without rules there would be chaos. rules give us our limitations and it is only God that can set these limitations. the rules in Islam far from oppressing you, actually FREE you from YOUR SELF. we are made selfish. all we want is to satisfy our wants and desires. that is the state that our PHYSICAL self has been made. it is through overcoming our physical self (some say the brain, some say stomach) by the strength of our SPIRITUAL self (the heart) that we are FREE from the trappings of this temporary world. a muslim dosent drink alcohol, for example, because it can LEAD to temptation. in islam we CUT OFF anything that can lead to sin. Allah, understanding the weak nature he has created us in, has given us the Quran which fully explains all of the areas that man must overcome so as to meet Him in a pure state. remember, we are Gods favourite creation. remember, God asked the angels to bow to man. we should be BETTER and PURER than angels! think, in this world of today, how EASY is it to become tempted and look at something your not supposed to or do someething your not supposed to? theres a poem i will paraphrase: One look of the eye, one smile of the mouth,one word of the tongue, one night of the flesh.There are indeed many similar beliefs between Jewdaism/Christianity and Islam. The standard of rightousness that Christians are called too is so high that it can feel impossible to achieve. Mostly, I think, the Christian life is common sense moral living. We don't have rules for things like not to walk on cracks, and things like that.
Those who teach this are as faithful to the teachings of Christ as bin Laden is to the teachings of Islam. IE, not at all. Each religion has schismatics, heretics, mavericks, and the like.The Student said:sadly in christianity, followers are seemingly taught that as long as you believe that jesus is God, then you will be saved NO MATTER what you do in life. this leads on to....
any hadith which dosent contradict the quran is considered authentic.
but i dont know of any muslim who believes that the quran is corrupted! please show me proof.
i believe that the bible IS a Holy Book but its teachings have become corrupted. It is these corruptions that the Quran rectifies.
without rules there would be chaos. rules give us our limitations and it is only God that can set these limitations. the rules in Islam far from oppressing you, actually FREE you from YOUR SELF. we are made selfish. all we want is to satisfy our wants and desires. that is the state that our PHYSICAL self has been made. it is through overcoming our physical self (some say the brain, some say stomach) by the strength of our SPIRITUAL self (the heart) that we are FREE from the trappings of this temporary world. a muslim dosent drink alcohol, for example, because it can LEAD to temptation. in islam we CUT OFF anything that can lead to sin. Allah, understanding the weak nature he has created us in, has given us the Quran which fully explains all of the areas that man must overcome so as to meet Him in a pure state. remember, we are Gods favourite creation. remember, God asked the angels to bow to man. we should be BETTER and PURER than angels! think, in this world of today, how EASY is it to become tempted and look at something your not supposed to or do someething your not supposed to? theres a poem i will paraphrase: One look of the eye, one smile of the mouth,one word of the tongue, one night of the flesh.
The Muslims and non-Muslims consider the Qur'an and the Bible to be their respective books of guidance without realizing the vast differences between the two. Firstly, the Bible is a scripture and many Muslims erroneously consider the Qur'an to be a scripture. In the Qur'an, Allah describes the Qur'an as "Al-Kitab", meaning "the Book", which is the right name for it.
the prophet muhammed said that before the end of the world there would be 71 jewish sects, 72 christian sects and 73 islamic sects. only ONE from each would be the correct one.
it is this ONE that is the TRUE sect.
the hadith which talk of 'how to go to the bathroom' are based on how the propeht muhammed,pbuh, did it. as muslims, we must follow the lifestlyes of the prophets as much as possible as the prophets were guided by God.
if you knew exactly how jesus would 'go to the bathroom' would you not do the same? dont you think that the way jesus did it would be the BEST way?
you see, it is this SELECTIVE editing of todays Bible that has led it to become a COMPLETELY different book. who was it that decided which books to include? who was it that slaughtered the early 'heretic' Unitarian christians? some of which survive today as Ebonites? who believe that jesus was just a man and prophet? why were they slaughtered?
todays bible is NOT the ORIGINAL Gospel that was given to Jesus. this is fact. jesus spoke aramaic,hewbrew and some say greek. do you not agree that reading todays accepted bibles in any other language but the accelted original will lead to a different understanding of the text?