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The Bible & School Prayer In America, What Happened ?

Lewis

Member
When I Lewis, was in elementary school, from around 1960 to around to 1966 we said the grace before we ate, and there was also prayer. Now you can be thrown in jail. America has went down the tubes, when it comes to teaching our children about Jesus, in their early lives, and beyond. And don't think for one femto second that God is not angry about it, yes I am talking to you ACLU, and the rest of you.
In 1963, Madalyn Murray O'Hair won a lawsuit against the Baltimore School System, which voted in her favor 8-1 to ban school prayer and label it "unconstitutional". Though not all prayer was immediately banned from schools at that time, through a process of time, almost all school prayer is banned today.
And guess who's fault it is, yep you guessed it, it is ours, the Christians of this country who backed down much to soon like cowards.

Prayer in Colonial Schools:
In Colonial America the schools were mostly run by the churches. The first settlers in America felt that it was important that children learned to read so they could read their Bibles. Learning right from wrong and developing good moral character were considered as important as learning the 3R's. School Prayer was a natural part of the Pilgrims school life. The Churches played a big part in the formation of schools in America:
See History of Schools in America, this link is a must see. http://www.free2pray.info/schools.html

Bible Reading & School Prayer:
As part of the daily curriculum, students were taught to pray and read using the Bible. Later in 1690 the New England Primer was introduced which taught spelling, reading and the Alphabet using Bible verses, thus teaching both reading and Bible morals at the same time. Daily school prayer was a natural part of this educational system. After the American Revolution, Noah Webster introduced the Blue Book Speller which also used Bible verses to teach reading and spelling. In 1836 the McGuffey Reader was introduced which also featured Bible verses to teach moral values. This school system produced some of the worlds brightest inventors and set the Industrial Revolution in motion. The schools continued to be run mostly by Christian Churches until the 1890's at which point States started to take control of the existing schools. By 1900 many other text books were in use and they all had Bible quotes in them.

School System Changes:
As the 20th Century began many classrooms started each day with the pledge of allegiance, a prayer and a reading from the Bible. Many Churches turned their schools over the State run educational system. State run schools continued to teach moral values using the McGuffey reader with its Bible verses. America had one of the best school systems in the world. The first crack in the moral school system occurred, in 1925 when the newly formed ACLU paid a teacher in Tennessee to teach Evolution. Biblical creation had been taught through out the land, and teaching evolution was against the Tennessee state law. While the ACLU lost the case, it set in motion a re-evaluation of teaching science. Within four decades the laws were reversed so that now teaching Creation is outlawed and teaching Evolution is mandatory.

Today's Schools without Prayer:
The ACLU then started using the courts to change school policy. In 1948 the Supreme court used the "Separation of Church and State" argument to outlaw a time for school prayer. In 1962 the Supreme Court again declared that prayer in school was unconstitutional. In 1963 the Warren Court stopped schools from allowing Bible reading in classes. In 1980 the Supreme Court declared that posting the Ten Commandments in a school classroom violated the Constitution of the United States.

Thus while the early American schools taught the moral values from the Bible, with school prayer, today's public school system prohibit teaching moral values from the Bible, or even allowing students to pray to a God that a majority of faiths in this country recognize. The result is America has become a land with much looser morals then 4 decades ago, which is having a negative affect on all sectors of our society. History shows us that when societies become corrupt they begin to come apart and crumble.

Links to other pages will show you how the courts removed Bible reading (teaching moral values), School Prayer and the Ten Commandments from our schools. The claim is made by the ACLU that these violate the Constitution, but then why did the founding fathers have, Bible reading, School Prayer and the Ten Commandments in their schools? Did they not understand their own Constitution?

A Nation that refuses to teach its children right from wrong, good from evil will become a corrupt nation, where sin prevails, evil abounds, and children do as they please!
http://www.schoolprayerinamerica.info/
 
ACLU = Anti Christian Liberal Union

My girlfriend teaches in a public school and has a "Good News Club" for kids after school. They are allowed to have their bible study but it cannot be held in the classroom (as to give the impression of a school employee endorsing their religion). The Good News club sued after being shut down in a New York district and the Supreme Court ruled in their favor back in 2001 to hold the meetings.

This is as close to prayer/bible you will see in public schools anymore. Sad.
 
There are many Christian schools out there if you really want prayer to be a part of the curriculum.

Why is that you feel the need to be allowed to pray out loud so others can see you praying?

Can anyone really ban prayer as it's you talking to God and it has no need to be audible? In fact the Bible speaks of praying out loud where people can see you and gives some advice.

Why does one think that others should have to see you praying?
 
seekandlisten said:
There are many Christian schools out there if you really want prayer to be a part of the curriculum.

Why is that you feel the need to be allowed to pray out loud so others can see you praying?

Can anyone really ban prayer as it's you talking to God and it has no need to be audible? In fact the Bible speaks of praying out loud where people can see you and gives some advice.

Why does one think that others should have to see you praying?
why have free speech then? at all, after one cant really stop you from thinking or writing, just delay those that want to really have their voices heard.

all it was the acknowledgement of a time set aside for those that wanted to pray, could. a moment of silence. i was a practicing die hard jw then and i was never made to pray!

only be respectful.

is seeking the lord while in office bad to you?
 
seekandlisten

Why is that you feel the need to be allowed to pray out loud so others can see you praying?
Why does one think that others should have to see you praying?

Wow that was really unfair, and I should just ignore it. But what you just said had nothing to do with the topic at hand, wow some people, why would you, out of the blue, say that, never mind I don't want to, even deal with it.
 
Lewis W said:
seekandlisten

Why is that you feel the need to be allowed to pray out loud so others can see you praying?
Why does one think that others should have to see you praying?

Wow that was really unfair, and I should just ignore it. But what you just said had nothing to do with the topic at hand, wow some people, why would you, out of the blue, say that, never mind I don't want to, even deal with it.

I'm going to assume from you quoting only those two questions that you took what I said the wrong way. I wasn't asking those questions as me asking you but rather as a self reflecting question. Not in the attitude of 'why should I have to see you pray' but more along the lines of 'I know I can pray anytime I want in my head so why do I need a time set aside and such'.

If one thinks that their religion practices should be accomodated by public schools then that same person must also accept that any other religion has just as much right to request time alotted for their daily religious practice. In all fairness it should be at the beginning of the day as well so that the Athiests can come to class late and skip the religious practices time frame.

Church is for religion, school is for education in my opinion. You want your religion to be a part of the curriculum, well their are many Christian schools out their that you can send your kids too.

Yes, I believe in separation of Church and State so my opinions will reflect that. I also believe in equal rights so if you feel that as a Christian prayer should be put back into school, well realize that Muslims also need to pray 5 times a day, Wiccans have their daily 'devotions' to control their inner energy, and so on. If you are okay with every religion being accomodated by the public school you may have a point but how much of our kids school day do we devote to religious practices?

cheers
 
Ok seekandlisten, thanks for the reply and clear up. There is no such thing as Separation of Church and State, period, people have blown the words of Thomas Jefferson all out of proportion.

No official government document by the founding fathers refers to separation of church and state

Research by David Barton, founder of Wallbuilders, Inc. exposes the alleged separation of church and state for the myth that it really is. The words separation of church and state don't appear in any official government documents authored by the founding fathers. This concept and these particular words were invented by an ACLU attorney named Leo Pfeffer in 1947 in the Supreme Court case of Everson versus Board of Education of Ewing Township. That liberal supreme court imposed it on the nation by a 5 to 4 vote. The ACLU and other anti-Christian organizations and individuals have used it to harass Christians with ever since. It is also used by evolutionists to try to keep a theistic explanation of origins out of the public schools. Many young people today are not aware of the fact that this concept is an ACLU invention, and that it is the extreme opposite of what our founding fathers actually intended. In other words, there is virtually no constitutional support whatsoever for it. Let's examine two of the most common myths about the founding fathers that most public school students are being taught today because of the history revisionists.

According to David Barton of Wallbuilders, Inc., 27 of our nation's 56 founding fathers had Christian seminary degrees! They certainly would have been aware of these directives spelled out in the Bible verses below about how to select leaders at all levels of government. Unfortunately the history revisionists that write our public school text books have left this important information out of what students are learning today. If you look at most web sites about the founding fathers, you'll also see that it's almost always omitted there as well. There is a deliberate effort on the part of secularists to keep this information from public school students.

Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place [such] over them, [to be] rulers of thousands, [and] rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:
Exodus 18:21

And he set judges in the land throughout all the fenced cities of Judah, city by city, And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who [is] with you in the judgment. wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do [it]: for [there is] no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.
2 Chronicles 19:5-7



Myth #1: Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists is the basis for separation of church and state

Some misguided people try to claim that this quote from Thomas Jefferson establishes the "separation of church and state" that we now have today:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,†thus building a wall of separation between Church and State". 1

The first problem with that assertion is that this quote is not from an official government document. The second is that it was Jefferson's original intent that this meant that the church was to be protected from the government, not the reverse (which is the case today). For more information about this, see:
http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/s ... sourceID=9




Myth #2: The founding fathers were "deists"

This is a common argument used by secular history revisionists that attempts to distract attention away from the fact that the majority of the founding fathers were committed Christians. For more information about why this is a myth, see this link:

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/s ... ourceID=29

If you watch the video at the link above, fast forward to 20 minutes and 30 seconds into it. There you'll hear Mr. Barton explain that 27 of our nation's 56 founding fathers had Christian seminary degrees! That would hardly qualify them as deists. We're trying to track down a list of exactly who they were. Once we have the list we'll post them on this same page.




Resources that prove the founding fathers intended for this to be a Christian nation

David Barton, founder of Wallbuilders, Inc., gives many seminars each year on this topic. One of them that was given to Compass International, Inc. was videotaped. We have been given permission to video-stream the entire video on our web site (download it from the link at the top of this page). We believe you will be quite surprised by what Mr. Barton has uncovered about the true intentions of our founding fathers on this matter. The majority of the information in his seminars once appeared in public school history books. However, it has since been removed for political correctness reasons by history revisionists. Today, students receive a grossly distorted view of those who founded our country, and what their views actually were concerning the roles of church and state.

We are grateful to Compass International, Inc. for allowing us to video-stream David's video titled America's Founding Fathers: Deists or Christians? on our web site. This video makes reference to a few speeches and documents authored by our founding fathers. Here are links to a some of them:

*

The Mayflower Compact.
*

Founding father William Samuel Johnson's overtly Biblical public school graduation address.
*

Benjamin Franklin is widely regarded to be among the least religious of the founding fathers. However, his speech given to Congress on June 28, 1787 asking that Congress have a prayer every morning before conducting business was overtly religious in nature. The text of this speech can be viewed at the Library of Congress's web site at these links: Page 1, Page 2, Page 3.
*

The Library of Congress web site has a page titled Religion and the Congress of the Confederation, 1774-89. Among the documents listed are the first English language Bible (Aitken's Bible) that Congress officially sanctioned for use by American citizens on September 12, 1782.
*

The October 11, 1782 congressional proclamation that declared Thanksgiving Day a day the nation was to give thanks to God for a variety of blessings.
*

Daniel Webster, one of our founding fathers, emphasized the importance of Christian leaders and Christian principles in civil government.



If they meant for this to be a Christian nation, why isn't Jesus mentioned in the constitution?

The short answer is that it wasn't necessary to. The majority of the founding fathers and American's in general were Christians. As we have seen from the above link to the Mayflower Compact, the main reason this country was founded was so that those Christians could spread the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ. They viewed the constitution, Bill of Rights and all laws that were passed as a having come from Biblical principles, and that these documents were all subordinate to the Bible. They were well aware of the fact that God had given them and all of mankind very specific litmus tests in the Bible that they needed to apply to all government officials before putting them into positions of power. There wasn't a need to specifically restate these God given mandates because they were already addressed in the more authoritative Bible, and were common knowledge.

The LORD is known [by] the judgment [which] he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. The wicked shall be turned into hell [and] all the nations that forget God. Psalms 9:16-17
http://www.creationists.org/myth-of-the ... state.html
 
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