[_ Old Earth _] The Bible Talks About the Expansion of the Universe

[William Whitehead]

Long before the famous scientist Stephen Hawking gazed out into space and decided to be a physicist, we Christians knew. In fact, long before Einstein or Hubble or any of the giants of modern science even for a minute considered that the universe around us is expanding, people who studied the Bible knew. That’s right; the theory of the expanding universe is mentioned in the Bible, in texts that were written over 2,000 years ago.

Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity hinted at the expansion. But it wasn’t until the astronomer Edwin Hubble took the light of distant galaxies and ran it through a spectrograph that he realized that the light rays were being stretched out. This stretching shifts the light towards the red end of the spectrum. Measuring this shift told him that the galaxies were moving away from us; in fact they were moving faster than the speed of light. The only explanation for this was an expanding universe. The laws of physics still work because light moves at a consistent rate, but light must travel more distance. The changing sound of a receding train is a good example of this principle.

Psalm 104:2 says; He (God) wraps Himself in light as with a garment, He stretches out the heavens like a tent.

There are ten other Old Testament passages like this one. In Biblical times tents were made from cotton or animal hides. Both can be stretched. God is seen by the writers as creating the heavens by expanding them to make room for God’s purposes. God stretches the fabric of heaven just enough to fill it with all of His creations.

And it’s a good thing that God’s universe is expanding. The early universe was so full of high energy materials, what we call radiation, that life as we know it could not have survived the constant radioactive bombardment. But as the heavens stretched out, the radiation stretched out with it decreasing the amount of high energy material that strikes us. God stretched out the tent of the sky just enough to make a safe place for us to live.

Thus the concept, though not the theory, has been sitting in the Biblical texts waiting for twentieth century people to apply them to science.

God bless you,
Pastor Bill

 

[lordkalvan]

Long before the famous scientist Stephen Hawking gazed out into space and decided to be a physicist, we Christians knew. In fact, long before Einstein or Hubble or any of the giants of modern science even for a minute considered that the universe around us is expanding, people who studied the Bible knew. That’s right; the theory of the expanding universe is mentioned in the Bible, in texts that were written over 2,000 years ago.

Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity hinted at the expansion. But it wasn’t until the astronomer Edwin Hubble took the light of distant galaxies and ran it through a spectrograph that he realized that the light rays were being stretched out. This stretching shifts the light towards the red end of the spectrum. Measuring this shift told him that the galaxies were moving away from us; in fact they were moving faster than the speed of light. The only explanation for this was an expanding universe. The laws of physics still work because light moves at a consistent rate, but light must travel more distance. The changing sound of a receding train is a good example of this principle.

Psalm 104:2 says; He (God) wraps Himself in light as with a garment, He stretches out the heavens like a tent.

There are ten other Old Testament passages like this one. In Biblical times tents were made from cotton or animal hides. Both can be stretched. God is seen by the writers as creating the heavens by expanding them to make room for God’s purposes. God stretches the fabric of heaven just enough to fill it with all of His creations.

And it’s a good thing that God’s universe is expanding. The early universe was so full of high energy materials, what we call radiation, that life as we know it could not have survived the constant radioactive bombardment. But as the heavens stretched out, the radiation stretched out with it decreasing the amount of high energy material that strikes us. God stretched out the tent of the sky just enough to make a safe place for us to live.

Thus the concept, though not the theory, has been sitting in the Biblical texts waiting for twentieth century people to apply them to science.

God bless you,
Pastor Bill

Very interesting and a thought-provoking interpretation, but how much of a 'retrofit' is it? Can you cite any pre-Einstein/pre-Hubble ideas about expanding space that reference the Bible as supporting this idea?

 

[zeke]

Very interesting and a thought-provoking interpretation, but how much of a 'retrofit' is it? Can you cite any pre-Einstein/pre-Hubble ideas about expanding space that reference the Bible as supporting this idea?

Kalvan – where have you been hiding my friend – haven’t seen you around lately. I think you are missing the point. The Bible presents God who “stretched out†(i.e., expanded) the universe? Didn't 'majority science' present a "static universe" not too long ago?

“[God]...stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)​

 

[Pizzaguy]

Very interesting and a thought-provoking interpretation, but how much of a 'retrofit' is it? Can you cite any pre-Einstein/pre-Hubble ideas about expanding space that reference the Bible as supporting this idea?

Probably not, since the Bible has probably always been regarded as nonsense or myth by the science-minded.

On a related note, I have thought for a LONG time that early Genesis reads like it is describing the Big Bang Theory.

 

[lordkalvan]

Kalvan – where have you been hiding my friend – haven’t seen you around lately. I think you are missing the point. The Bible presents God who “stretched out†(i.e., expanded) the universe? Didn't 'majority science' present a "static universe" not too long ago?

“[God]...stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)​

I only respond to posts that interest me. I was asking whether or not this was a simple matter of retrofitting a particular verse to best fit current understanding. For example, if, as you assert, ' 'majority science' present[ed] a "static universe" not too long ago' (do you have relevant citations, by the way?), can you show whether or not biblical verse was interpreted as agreeing with this view or not, thus 'validating' the Bible scientifically?

 

[lordkalvan]

Probably not, since the Bible has probably always been regarded as nonsense or myth by the science-minded.

Well, yes and no. After all, many scientists are Christians. To regard the Bible as what it is - a pre-scientific culture's efforts to explain the natural world in terms that made sense to them - does not deny a possible spiritual truth within the Bible.

On a related note, I have thought for a LONG time that early Genesis reads like it is describing the Big Bang Theory.

Which is my point, I suppose. If this interpretation is correct, do we see pre-BBT interpreters of the Bible arguing for a Universe expanding from much smaller beginnings or do they argue for an understanding of the Universe from different premises?

 

[zeke]

I was asking whether or not this was a simple matter of retrofitting a particular verse to best fit current understanding.

The passage is exactly what it is - God “stretched out†(expanded) the universe "in the beginning"? Do you believe the universe expanded "in the beginning"? You do believe the universe had a beginning - right?

 

[Pizzaguy]

Well, yes and no. After all, many scientists are Christians. To regard the Bible as what it is - a pre-scientific culture's efforts to explain the natural world in terms that made sense to them - does not deny a possible spiritual truth within the Bible.

Agreed. I don't see the Bible as a science textbook OR as an attempt at one. But I encounter people who insist that it must be "100% truth" that "leaves nothing out"... I find this to be silly. The bible does not attempt to explain astronomy, genetics, math, or any of the sciences.

Which is my point, I suppose. If this interpretation is correct, do we see pre-BBT interpreters of the Bible arguing for a Universe expanding from much smaller beginnings or do they argue for an understanding of the Universe from different premises?

I am unsure.

But again, to go looking for science-based knowledge in the pages of the bible seems silly to me - no matter WHO is doing the looking. :yes

 

[zeke]

Agreed. I don't see the Bible as a science textbook OR as an attempt at one.

I don't think anyone presents the Bible as a scientific textbook. Do you agree that the Bible presents concepts that agree with science?

 

[lordkalvan]

The passage is exactly what it is - God “stretched out†(expanded) the universe "in the beginning"? Do you believe the universe expanded "in the beginning"? You do believe the universe had a beginning - right?

This is irrelevant to the point I was making and the question I was asking. 'Stretch out' is not necessarily a direct and unique synonym for 'expand'. For example, I don't get bigger if I stretch out my arms, which comes back to the question I was asking about retrofitting verse to current understanding and pre-BBT interpretations of what the Bible supposedly meant.

I note in passing your continuing tendency to ignore questions while expecting others to answer yours.

 

[lordkalvan]

Agreed. I don't see the Bible as a science textbook OR as an attempt at one. But I encounter people who insist that it must be "100% truth" that "leaves nothing out"... I find this to be silly. The bible does not attempt to explain astronomy, genetics, math, or any of the sciences.


I am unsure.

But again, to go looking for science-based knowledge in the pages of the bible seems silly to me - no matter WHO is doing the looking. :yes

Absolutely. I think your argument is pertinent and to the point.

 

[zeke]

This is irrelevant to the point I was making and the question I was asking. 'Stretch out' is not necessarily a direct and unique synonym for 'expand'. For example, I don't get bigger if I stretch out my arms, which comes back to the question I was asking about retrofitting verse to current understanding and pre-BBT interpretations of what the Bible supposedly meant.

You again miss the point presented in the OP and your point of "retrofitting" is a moot point. The passage is what it is and has been for 3000 years. The Bible presents the concept that God “stretched out” (expanded) the universe. Easy concept.

Do you believe the universe expanded "in the beginning"? You do believe the universe had a beginning - right?

 

[zeke]

I note in passing your continuing tendency to ignore questions while expecting others to answer yours.

What questions do you feel need to be addressed and aren't you ignoring my questions?

 

[lordkalvan]

You again miss the point presented in the OP and your point of "retrofitting" is a moot point.

What have I missed and how is my point moot?

The passage is what it is and has been for 3000 years. The Bible presents the concept that God “stretched out” (expanded) the universe. Easy concept.

And what was this 'easy concept' interpreted as meaning prior to scientific understanding concerning an expanding Universe? Do you know?

Do you believe the universe expanded "in the beginning"?

The evidence suggests expansion from a singularity.

You do believe the universe had a beginning - right?

The evidence seems to suggest that our part of the Universe as we understand it is about 13.75 billion years old.

 

[lordkalvan]

What questions do you feel need to be addressed and aren't you ignoring my questions?

There were two questions in Post 5 that you simply snipped and ignored.

 

[Pizzaguy]

1) I don't think anyone presents the Bible as a scientific textbook.

2) Do you agree that the Bible presents concepts that agree with science?

1) I do, I've met people like that in church and on line. Admittedly, their arguments don't make sense, but they THINK they are making sense.

2) Things like "He hangs the earth upon nothing" certainly do. I am NOT saying that the Bible is WRONG about science, but I AM SAYING that many who quote it often read science into it's passages that isn't there.
And in doing so, they hurt the cause of Christ and look silly to those who are even basically scientifically informed.

 

[zeke]

There were two questions in Post 5 that you simply snipped and ignored.

Your notion of "retrofitting" remains a moot point. The Bible has always presented the concept that God “stretched out†the universe. What's to retrofit? Regarding the charge that the Bible needs to be validated scientifically - it doesn't. God does not present His word as a scientific treatise. It is a revelation of who He is and how He interacts with His creation.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
(Rom 1:20 NKJV)​

 

[zeke]

Things like "He hangs the earth upon nothing" certainly do. I am NOT saying that the Bible is WRONG about science, but I AM SAYING that many who quote it often read science into it's passages that isn't there.
And in doing so, they hurt the cause of Christ and look silly to those who are even basically scientifically informed.

Of course many non-believers "read science" into their worldviews that those who are scientifically informed find silly. So what's your point?

 

[zeke]

The evidence seems to suggest that our part of the Universe as we understand it is about 13.75 billion years old.

In your worldview then - how did something (the universe) come from nothing? Was it created by a Creator who exists outside of nature as presented in God's word? Why is there something instead of nothing?

 

[lordkalvan]

Your notion of "retrofitting" remains a moot point. The Bible has always presented the concept that God “stretched out” the universe. What's to retrofit? Regarding the charge that the Bible needs to be validated scientifically - it doesn't. God does not present His word as a scientific treatise. It is a revelation of who He is and how He interacts with His creation.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
(Rom 1:20 NKJV)​

You still miss the point and fail to explain how my point is moot. Let me try again. Prior to the emergence of scientific ideas about an expanding Universe, what was this concept of 'stretching out' interpreted as suggesting about the Universe? And I never said that the Bible 'needs to be validated scientifically', but, as Pizzaguy pointed out, this doesn't stop people trying to do so.

ETA And you still haven't answered my original two questions.