[_ Old Earth _] The Bible Talks About the Expansion of the Universe

[zeke]

Then no, I don't agree. I do notice that you define your term, "current science" as the science of today opposed to the science of yesterday or tomorrow. This points to the essential difference. Scientific "fact" changes. The Word of God doesn't.

You continue to try to support the specific from the general. Your conclusions do not follow your premises with logical necessity. You claim the certainty of God's word for man's thought and theory.

God has presented His word word "for man's thought" and the biblical concept that God "stretched out the heavens" to contain His creation remains true. I am not sure you really understand that truth but that is your burden. We can only help you so much and hope you come to know God's creative power. It's an easy concept for most folks - a few struggle. Report back when you figure it out.

 

[Sparkey]

Who said that I think that God didn't stretch out the heavens?

He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea. (Job 9:8)

[SIZE=+0](Rotherham) Job 9:10 Who doeth great things, past finding out, and marvels, beyond number. [/SIZE]


Do you understand that God has done great things, past finding out?
The heavens are also said to be rolled out as a scroll (Isaiah 34:4; Revelation 6:14).

 

[Sparkey]

Have you seen the online "Institute for the Bible and Scientific Studies" site? I've not had a chance yet to check them out except I do find their direct statement about "stretching out the heavens": One should not read into this modern science, like the expansion of the universe, or the Big Bang theory.

It was found in a scholary article that dealt with the Hebrew text and the 10 times the word was used with reference to the heavens in the OT. I can provide the link if it will help you.

 

[zeke]

Who said that I think that God didn't stretch out the heavens?

He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea. (Job 9:8)

[SIZE=+0](Rotherham) Job 9:10 Who doeth great things, past finding out, and marvels, beyond number. [/SIZE]


Do you understand that God has done great things, past finding out?
The heavens are also said to be rolled out as a scroll (Isaiah 34:4; Revelation 6:14).

But the revelation that He "stretched out the heavens" to contain His creation has been revealed for all to see. The universe - God's handiwork is there for you to see - open your eyes. Do you kick against the pricks? I think you are getting closer--slowly. Are we on the same page yet?

 

[Sparkey]

But the revelation that He "stretched out the heavens" to contain His creation has been revealed for all to see. The universe - God's handiwork is there for you to see - open your eyes. Do you kick against the pricks? I think you are getting closer--slowly. Are we on the same page yet?

Do I think we are getting closer? have you included the Quark Coefficient in your definition of modern scientific thought? What ratio of expansion exactly does the Big Bang Theory express during its inflationary period? Would that be approximately 1x10 to the 12th power? 1 part to 100,000,000,000? Is that the same ratio as the tents that the word of God speaks of when it talks about the heavens being stretched? Does the Bible mention the original expansion of the universe in any manner that reflects what "current science" (your term, not mine) predicts?

I think that the Bible clearly makes the point that God is greater than we can know. That His actions are beyond our comprehension. Do you really think we're close to being on the same page? You're interpretation of me then, is similar to your interpretation of the meaning of the clear passages of the Bible: both wrong.

 

[zeke]

I think that the Bible clearly makes the point that God is greater than we can know. That His actions are beyond our comprehension. Do you really think we're close to being on the same page?

Lift up your eyes on high, And see who has created these things, Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name, By the greatness of His might And the strength of His power; Not one is missing.
(Isa 40:26 NKJV)​

Do you kick against the pricks? Lift up your eyes - the biblical concept of a universe that God "stretched out" as the "expanse of the heavens" to contain all which He created is really hard to miss. I guess there will always be exceptions - yourself included. Oh well - that's you burden.

"And God made the two great lights ... and the stars ... and placed them in the expanse of the heavens"​

 

[Sparkey]

Do you kick against the pricks?

The pricks that you speak of do not originate from you or your attempts to jibe. The pricks of the Holy Spirit that you mention might include the still quiet voice that says that it is foolish for me to try to argue with you. I personally believe that you're worth talking to about this and hope that some day you'll be able to understand that the Bible really isn't a science book and that it doesn't even try to confirm nor deny modern scientific thought regarding the Big Bang or their predictions about the inflationary epoch and expansion.

Two entirely different schools of thought there. Maybe you're right. It's possible that I am kicking against the pricks of the Holy Spirit. If I am though, it is because I am stubbornly convinced that you came to this forum for reason. I might be part of that reason. It is my prayer that this is so.

 

[Sparkey]

I wonder why you have not introduced TIME into our discussion here. Would you care to expound your theories about the 6 days of creation found in Genesis? Were they literal days? Does the word "YOM" or 'yowm' mean the same thing as modern scientists do when they use the word "Day"? Is it a literal 24 hour period?

Genesis clearly makes a point that the heavens and the earth were created by God on the first day.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." - (Gen 1:1-5 KJV)